Mexican Army Equipment 1995

[Raellus]

I'm one of the folks- a minority, it appears- who is OK with the Mexican invasion/occupation scenario presented in T2K v1.0. I find that it makes a much more interesting setting for CONUS-based campaigns. Therefore, I like to find ways to make it more plausible, instead of tearing it down as impossible.

With that in mind, it's possible that the Mexican army kept its mid-'60s era Sedena-Henschel HWK-11s in storage and that they could have reopened the production lines that manufactured them.

Also, due to the continuation of the Cold War in the v1.0 timeline, it's possible that a more left-leaning Mexico could have acquired additional IFVs from China or the Soviet Union, especially if there were increased tensions between Mexico and the U.S.A. (border security, "War on Drugs", trade disputes). Even 40 Chicom Type 59 MBTs could have been a handful for the the American forces still in CONUS when the Mexican invasion occurred. If Soviet or Chicom weapons would have been too risky, diplomatically, there were Brazilian and Argentinian IFVs on the market as well.

I'm fine with a little buffing of the Mexican Armed Forces, if it makes for a more interesting campaign.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I'm one of the folks- a minority, it appears- who is OK with the Mexican invasion/occupation scenario presented in T2K v1.0. I find that it makes a much more interesting setting for CONUS-based campaigns. Therefore, I like to find ways to make it more plausible, instead of tearing it down as impossible.

I'm with Raellus on this. We're presented with the game which comes with certain "facts" about the world. Work with that information, not against it.

Change the world too much and you're no longer playing Twilight:2000, but something that only uses the game mechanics - may as well go play starwars or robotech instead.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I'm with Raellus on this. We're presented with the game which comes with certain "facts" about the world. Work with that information, not against it.

Change the world too much and you're no longer playing Twilight:2000, but something that only uses the game mechanics - may as well go play starwars or robotech instead.

Exactly, it is what it is, because that is the story the author wanted .

As much as it does not make sense and remains completely implausible.... That is the game story.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Also, due to the continuation of the Cold War in the v1.0 timeline, it's possible that a more left-leaning Mexico could have acquired additional IFVs from China or the Soviet Union, especially if there were increased tensions between Mexico and the U.S.A. (border security, "War on Drugs", trade disputes). Even 40 Chicom Type 59 MBTs could have been a handful for the the American forces still in CONUS when the Mexican invasion occurred. If Soviet or Chicom weapons would have been too risky, diplomatically, there were Brazilian and Argentinian IFVs on the market as well.

I'm fine with a little buffing of the Mexican Armed Forces, if it makes for a more interesting campaign.

My position also.

[Olefin]

I think what it may come down to again was just how much transport did the units still in the U.S. have? By the time of the Mexican invasion the U.S. was already running low on gasoline and the transport network had taken a huge hit. So while maybe in a normal situation they would be flush with anti armor weapons and ammo here the units at the border showed up not that well equipped at all - maybe just men and small arms and a few support weapons but without much of the anti armor and other heavy support weapons they normally would have. Again the huge drain of equipment to Europe and Asia to keep the units there somewhat in the fight after the massive losses of 1997 could be the culprit. "Sarge why only one grenade a piece?" "Why are you gonna need grenades private, it's not like we are gonna fight a war against Mexico?" says the sergeant, not knowing the next morning that he would be fighting for his life against enemy armor crossing the Rio Grande.

[Olefin]

And considering the Chinese are fighting for their lives against the Russians I doubt there will be Chinese MBT's crossing the Rio Grande. If the Mexicans do go armor shopping most likely they would be looking at either old French armor or possibly trading oil for MBT's to someone like Cuba or Israel

According to canon their AFV's are almost all ERC-90's, their APC's the VAB

Looking at what they actually had then the most likely place the Mexican Army expanded was they bought more ERC-90's to add to the 120 they already had to produce the AFV's you see that are left by 2001, supplemented by what is left of the M3/M5 tanks (which may have stayed in Mexico and make up the AFV's that are seen in their forces that are still there)

As for APC's using the AMX-VCI in place of the VAB basically conforms to canon - those vehicles came from the Belgian Army in 1994-1996, a sale which might have still occurred due to the age of the vehicles

And yes most of their armor didn't have the ability to stand up to anti-armor weapons that the US had - which again support the canon, which had them basically facing very lightly armed reserve and National Guard units, which may have been equipped more as riot control police and less as infantry ready to fight in a war.

[Olefin]

Keep in mind too you have to add Soviet Division Cuba in there as well

Based on what was really in Cuba in real life when the Soviet Union collapsed and extrapolating how they would have been armed you could be looking at 11,000 men and some 120 tanks (with them bringing some Cuban T-62's and T54/55's with them to supplement the T-72's and T-80's in canon) and a good amount of BMP's and BTR's as well plus attack helicopters

that gives them a heck of an edge in Texas - especially if the Soviets had helicopters and the US didn't have much air power left due to fuel shortages and lack of aircraft - and the Cubans, who would have been short on gasoline of their own, might have given the Soviets most of their helicopter fleet to use themselves, giving the Soviets a big advantage over US units that might have almost no air support of their own

so that right there gives the Mexican invasion the teeth it needs to succeed at least in Texas

[Olefin]

Now if you are looking elsewhere to build up the Mexicans

Brazil would be operating M41 Bulldogs - they had 340 of them - they did have a lot of indigenous APC's that Mexico could have bought

Argentina would have the TAM - that is a pretty good tank and they would have been producing them right around the canon time frame but I dont see them parting with more than 30-40 of them at most

Israel would have Super Shermans, Egypt older Soviet equipment, and again you have the French for sure since they had already sold so much to Mexico

Personally I think Mexico could have pulled off the invasion with the equipment they had - they caught the 49th out of position, other units spread all over the place and their main opposition at the start would have been MP units (and not combat ones most likely), National Guard units that were most likely logistics and transport companies pressed into being border guards and riot control units, and local police and militia units.

Given the state of the US by mid 1998 if they had had a large tank force the US probably couldnt have stopped them short of Kansas and Arkansas and San Francisco

And while the equipment they have isnt breakthru equipment, their army isnt that kind of army - they train to fight insurgents and rebels and riots - so most likely they didnt send their troops into battle riding those APC's they had or use tanks as breakthru units - instead they used the APC's to transport men to where they could be discharged but without exposing the APC's to direct fire (i.e. doesnt matter if the US has M203's or Mk19's if the infantry gets deployed way out of their range) and they may have used their tanks and armored cars as mobile artillery - i.e. putting the 90mm cannon on the ERC-90 to use in a support role for infantry

and considering they would have had access to men who were trained to get into and out of the country much of their offensive would have consisted of getting around US units using that knowledge, making our guys fall back to avoid being surrounded - i.e. the Spartans at Thermopylae went down because they got flanked and forced out of the pass, not becauses of the frontal Persian assaults