Venezuela in TW 2000

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

how hard is it to destroy a refinery when a simple match can set off a catastrophic event?

Actually, you don't even need a match. In the TV series Life Without People, it shows that just leaving a functioning refinery unattended will cause its explosive demise. The sections of a refinery depend upon raw materials moving along bit by bit in an uninterrupted chain -- Most refinery explosions have taken place because some part of this progression did not happen, sometimes only for a few hours. Things get backed up, concentrations of hydrocarbons occurs where there shouldn't be concentrations, temperatures rise, and BOOM.

It's a long, tedious, difficult process to properly turn off a refinery complex. And with war at full gallop, no one is going to want to turn off functioning refineries deliberately.

[kalos72]

And there are safety procedures for an emergency shutdown as well.

Again, not trying to imply that all refineries except the ones mentioned explicitly are up and running, but saying NONE of them are up is statistically improbable and canonically inaccurate.

Part of this game is about rebuilding, the US could not recover from having every single refinery in the country completely and utterly destroyed. Unless we make this MP or something...

[pmulcahy11b]

That could be an idea for an adventure. The PCs have to escort a technical team to properly shut down a refinery and take possession of any oil products there. Your opponents also want those oil products, or maybe to even take control of the refinery because they have a supply of oil to refine. And then the bosses tell the PC team to go get that oil the NPCs have...it could go on and on.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by kalos72

...but saying NONE of them are up is statistically improbable and canonically inaccurate.

Not at all what I'm saying. What I am asserting is the 40% figure of surviving refineries is wildly optimistic given the multitude of ways besides nukes for these facilities to be damaged or destroyed. Even the 40% figure is not supported by canon (although 39.9% is possible, although not plausible).

[kalos72]

Ill agree with that, I say survived meaning not nuked. What happened after the nuke exchange is prime mission material there.

I will say though that I think it still brings a shadow of doubt, or at least possible mission material when thinking about the foreign national attacks. If they only took out 60% of their primary targets, surely they left something of the non allied foreign national infrastructure intact.

[Legbreaker]

And then look at it through the eyes of a PC. Nukes are known to be nasty, super destructive things, and nobody in 2000, not even those who think they're in charge (leadership of the three various US Governments) really have much idea of what's left standing over the hill, let alone across the country. Until proven otherwise, they could be forgiven for believing the nukes got everything, especially if they've spent the last couple of years in a more devastated region.
Even if it was known a refinery was still standing somewhere, it may well be completely impossible for, say, Milgov to secure it with the available manpower and other pressures.
A more local group on the other hand might be able to occupy it, but have no hope of actually operating it due to lack of skilled personnel, and possibly a real shortage of actual crude oil to process.

The same applies almost anywhere in the world.

[Olefin]

We know some refineries got shut down correctly - i.e. the one that is being put back on like at Brownsville is an example - and that the one in IL is still on line fully even as late as 2001 - although HW has it suffering an accident that reduces it to 1 percent of capacity by the end of the year (which by the way is still a lot of processed oil considering how big that particular refinery is)

and its not quite a life without people event - there would be emergency cutoffs and safeties used at most facilities - its not like poof and everyone disappeared as in Life Without People - also remember that its relatively easy to make diesel fuel which is what a lot of military vehicles can run on, let alone the grade of fuel that can be used to generate power - avgas or jet fuel on the other hand basically needs an intact facility

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Olefin

We know some refineries got shut down correctly - i.e. the one that is being put back on like at Brownsville is an example.

We don't know that actually. We do know most refineries were destroyed or damaged by the Americans as they withdrew from the area. All we really know about the Port Isabel refinery is that it's in the process of bring repaired.

This isn't to say there aren't other facilities in better condition, however the problem is getting crude to them. If that were possible, nobody would be bothering with Port Isabel.