US Air Force Locations

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Well we know that MilGov has operating refineries - there are mentions of them in Oklahoma and Illinois as well in Howling Wilderness - also the fact that much of what oil is being refined is being used to make lubricants - which leads to an obvious conclusion that they have refineries in operation.

Howling Wilderness has the U.S. Army 194th Armoured Brigade guarding the oil refinery at Robinson, IL and a few functional oil fields surrounding it. However it also states that a recent accident severely damaged the plants last operating catalytic convertor, and the refinery is currently operating at one percent of its designed capacity. The brigade commander is also considering evacuating from Cairo, IL to Robinson and severing all ties with MilGov.

Doesn't give much information about refineries Oklahoma other than stating there are some or maybe one, and some oil wells. Reference to Colorado also supplying fuel, although that maybe from a depot of scavenged supplies.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by RN7

Howling Wilderness has the U.S. Army 194th Armoured Brigade guarding the oil refinery at Robinson, IL and a few functional oil fields surrounding it. However it also states that a recent accident severely damaged the plants last operating catalytic convertor, and the refinery is currently operating at one percent of its designed capacity. The brigade commander is also considering evacuating from Cairo, IL to Robinson and severing all ties with MilGov.

Doesn't give much information about refineries Oklahoma other than stating there are some or maybe one, and some oil wells. Reference to Colorado also supplying fuel, although that maybe from a depot of scavenged supplies.

FYI that refinery at Robinson has a pretty big capacity

So even reduced to 1 percent that still a capacity of 2060 barrels of oil per day with 390 barrels per day of gas and 785 barrels of diesel - i.e. 16,380 gallons of gas and 32,970 gallons of diesel - and that accident doesn't happen till the end of the year in 2001 - meaning that one refinery is making enough gas, oil, etc. in 2001 to easily support MilGov ops in Indiana, Illinois, Ohio with some shipped to Memphis

•Location: Robinson, Illinois, USA
•Capacity: 10.3 million tons/annum & 206,000 bbl/day

Refining Units
•Atmospheric Distillation, 206,000 bpd
•Vacuum Distillation, 71,500 bpd
•Delayed Coker, 29,000 bpd
•Fluidised Catalytic Cracker, 55,000 bpd
•Hydrocracking, 28,000
•Catalytic Reforming (Low Pressure), 78,000
•Naphtha Desulphurisation, 66,500 bpd
•Gasoline Desulphurisation, 39,000 bpd
•Diesel Desulphurisation, 78,500 bpd

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Olefin

FYI that refinery at Robinson has a pretty big capacity

So even reduced to 1 percent that still a capacity of 2060 barrels of oil per day with 390 barrels per day of gas and 785 barrels of diesel - i.e. 16,380 gallons of gas and 32,970 gallons of diesel - and that accident doesn't happen till the end of the year in 2001 - meaning that one refinery is making enough gas, oil, etc. in 2001 to easily support MilGov ops in Indiana, Illinois, Ohio with some shipped to Memphis

•Location: Robinson, Illinois, USA
•Capacity: 10.3 million tons/annum & 206,000 bbl/day

Refining Units
•Atmospheric Distillation, 206,000 bpd
•Vacuum Distillation, 71,500 bpd
•Delayed Coker, 29,000 bpd
•Fluidised Catalytic Cracker, 55,000 bpd
•Hydrocracking, 28,000
•Catalytic Reforming (Low Pressure), 78,000
•Naphtha Desulphurisation, 66,500 bpd
•Gasoline Desulphurisation, 39,000 bpd
•Diesel Desulphurisation, 78,500 bpd

And these figures would be plausible if the oil was drilled near the Robinson oil refinery, but the oil supply (most of it) is not locally sourced and is transported to Robinson via three pipelines.

• Capline Oil Pipeline: The pipeline originates at the St James Oil Terminal in Louisiana, passes near Memphis and terminates in the Patoka oil terminal in Illinois.

• Pegasus Crude Oil Pipeline: The pipeline transports oil almost exclusively from Western Canada.

• Woodpat Oil Pipeline: The pipeline runs from Wood River Illinois to Patoka oil terminal in Illinois and also connects with Kansas and Oklahoma.

A fourth is under construction at the moment.

• Dakota Access Crude Oil Pipeline: Pipeline will bring shale oil from North Dakota via the Patoka oil terminal.

Although the Illinois Basin has historically been the third most oil productive area in the US. Much of the conventional oil was drilled out in the early to mid-20th Century and has been in decline since the 1950's. Most recent drilling has been centred on shale oil and gas. Oil fields in Illinois are primarily in the southern half of the state. Robinson is in the southern half of Illinois, but just barely and located in the extreme eastern part near the border with Indiana and most of the state's oil fields are not very near Robinson. In 1998, the average daily oil production from an Illinois well was only 1 to 2 barrels (42 to 84 gallons). So a small quantity of oil will be locally sourced to refine different oil products but nowhere near enough to support the figures in your list.

[Olefin]

And you may have just stated one of the reasons that MilGov moved an armored brigade from Texas to retake Memphis

i.e the Capline Oil Pipeline

Capline Oil Pipeline: The pipeline originates at the St James Oil Terminal in Louisiana, passes near Memphis and terminates in the Patoka oil terminal in Illinois.

And the Woodpat as you stated connects with Kansas and Oklahoma

Woodpat Oil Pipeline: The pipeline runs from Wood River Illinois to Patoka oil terminal in Illinois and also connects with Kansas and Oklahoma.

So the real question may be is are the pipelines still functional and if so at what capacity?

However even if the pipelines aren't functional Illinois makes more than enough oil to support that refinery - yes you are right about what the wells average but there a literally thousands of wells in the Illinois fields


Some figures - https://www.dnr.illinois.gov/OilandG...nIllinois.aspx

Oil & Gas Facts

Current Statistics
•There are approximately 32,100 oil and gas production wells, 10,500 Class II injection wells and 1,750 gas storage wells in Illinois.
•These wells are controlled by 1,500 operators.
•There is oil production in 40 of the 102 counties in Illinois. Most of the production is located in the southern part of Illinois.
•The oil producing area of Illinois is part of a geologic structure or province known as the Illinois Basin. The Illinois Basin covers southern Illinois, western Kentucky and western Indiana.
•Approximately 800 drilling permits for oil, gas and injection wells are issued each year.
•The majority of wells in Illinois are stripper wells with a daily production of 1.5 barrels per day

And all those wells produce a lot of oil

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local...9bb2963f4.html

“The Illinois Oil & Gas Association, which speaks for the industry, says there are some 16,000 active wells in 43 Illinois counties and at the last count these pumped 9 million barrels of crude a year. Add them to what are known as marginal wells and you’ve got a production source worth 915,000 barrels of oil a day or about 18 percent of total United States domestic production”

Thus even at only 1-2 barrels of oil per day, given that many wells you have more than enough oil to support that refinery at full capacity right thru to when the catalytic cracker accident happens in late 2001 - which would give MilGov the jet fuel they need for limited air operations - and as long as they have operational aerial tankers they can move fuel from IL to where it needs to go by air or by ground or river in very heavily guarded convoys

So actually the oil fields of Illinois can easily support full production at Robinson even if every pipeline is out of commission

[Olefin]

One thing I always keep in mind when I look at the canon is how much info we have now that the original writers either didn't have or didn't have easy access to. If you want to see how much oil is produced in IL it takes a few minutes now - back in the mid 80's and early 90's when they wrote the modules it meant digging in multiple libraries, writing letters, all kinds of things

so the canon writers very likely didn't know that the IL oil fields alone produce so much oil even with only 1-2 barrels a day - not with 13000 plus producing wells - whereas we can find it with a few clicks of a computer screen

thus could MilGov get fuel for a limited number of planes just from what the iL fields are producing thru the Robinson refinery - the answer is yes - but back then when the game was written good luck finding that kind of data when you were in a time crunch to get out new material

you aren't going to leisurely check out 10 different libraries and universities and send away for info when your editor is saying "where the heck is Howling Wilderness? what do you mean you have to delay three weeks while you research how much oil comes from IL - just get it on my desk by Monday!"

[kalos72]

Great posts Olefin! Thats why our campaign is in Texas. Sure there is alot of damage but if every well just trickles out a little oil every day, its going to add up.

Great stuff here!

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Olefin

And you may have just stated one of the reasons that MilGov moved an armored brigade from Texas to retake Memphis

Actually MilGov sent an infantry brigade (197th Infantry Brigade) from Texas to Memphis because it was under the grip of a feudal style warlord who was disrupting river traffic on the Mississippi River. Memphis is a major transportation hub because of its location on the Mississippi River and a convergence of numerous rail and highway links, and four rail and highway bridges cross the Mississippi River at Memphis. The fact that the Capline Oil Pipeline runs through Memphis was I think of little significance.

And the 194th Armored Brigade was moved to Cairo, IL because it is located on the confluence of the Mississippi and Ohio rivers.

Originally Posted by Olefin

i.e the Capline Oil Pipeline

Capline Oil Pipeline: The pipeline originates at the St James Oil Terminal in Louisiana, passes near Memphis and terminates in the Patoka oil terminal in Illinois.

And the Woodpat as you stated connects with Kansas and Oklahoma

Woodpat Oil Pipeline: The pipeline runs from Wood River Illinois to Patoka oil terminal in Illinois and also connects with Kansas and Oklahoma.

So the real question may be is are the pipelines still functional and if so at what capacity?

Oil pipelines are made from steel or plastic tubes which are usually buried and they stretch for hundreds or even thousands of miles and need to be maintained. The oil flows through pipelines by pump stations which need electricity and also need to be maintained. Power and maintenance of oil pipelines are things that will be lacking in T2K.

Wood River was destroyed by a Soviet 1.5 Mt nuclear warhead in 1997, and the oil refining and storage facilities at Joliette and Lawrenceville were also destroyed.

Originally Posted by Olefin

However even if the pipelines aren't functional Illinois makes more than enough oil to support that refinery - yes you are right about what the wells average but there a literally thousands of wells in the Illinois fields

Some figures - https://www.dnr.illinois.gov/OilandG...nIllinois.aspx

Oil & Gas Facts

Current Statistics
•There are approximately 32,100 oil and gas production wells, 10,500 Class II injection wells and 1,750 gas storage wells in Illinois.
•These wells are controlled by 1,500 operators.
•There is oil production in 40 of the 102 counties in Illinois. Most of the production is located in the southern part of Illinois.
•The oil producing area of Illinois is part of a geologic structure or province known as the Illinois Basin. The Illinois Basin covers southern Illinois, western Kentucky and western Indiana.
•Approximately 800 drilling permits for oil, gas and injection wells are issued each year.
•The majority of wells in Illinois are stripper wells with a daily production of 1.5 barrels per day

And all those wells produce a lot of oil

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local...9bb2963f4.html

“The Illinois Oil & Gas Association, which speaks for the industry, says there are some 16,000 active wells in 43 Illinois counties and at the last count these pumped 9 million barrels of crude a year. Add them to what are known as marginal wells and you’ve got a production source worth 915,000 barrels of oil a day or about 18 percent of total United States domestic production”

Thus even at only 1-2 barrels of oil per day, given that many wells you have more than enough oil to support that refinery at full capacity right thru to when the catalytic cracker accident happens in late 2001 - which would give MilGov the jet fuel they need for limited air operations - and as long as they have operational aerial tankers they can move fuel from IL to where it needs to go by air or by ground or river in very heavily guarded convoys

So actually the oil fields of Illinois can easily support full production at Robinson even if every pipeline is out of commission

Most of the oil that was refined in Robinson before the nuclear strikes was transported by pipeline from Kansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma and Canada, not Illinois. So the infrastructure and logistics to ship oil from the Illinois oil wells to Robinson did not exist. Also most of the oil wells in Illinois are not near Robinson, many will be hundreds of miles away as Illinois is quite a big state.

Also According to Howling Wilderness on Page 39 "only a trickle of oil is produced by the fields of southern Illinois, but it's enough to keep the tanks and other vehicles of MilGov's Mississippi Valley enclave operating".

So unless the 194th Armored Brigade has access to a large fleet of mobile electricity generators and a functional fleet of mobile reverse circulation drills on hand they will be reverting to using the muscle power of men and work animals to drill oil. So as the 194th Armored Brigade had 400 troops in Cairo and 200 troops in Robinson how does that work?

[Olefin]

As I said Howling Wilderness most likely underestimated the amount of oil being produced in southern Illinois - I highly doubt that the people who wrote the module knew there were 13,000 active wells in the state at the time -

as for the muscle power of men and animals to drill oil -

you are assuming that the pump jacks were all running off the grid and thus need to now be powered by men or animals because there is no more power - but most pump jacks run off generators that run diesel fuel instead of the grid - and where you have multiple wells you would have a single generator running multiple pump jacks

As for where the fuel comes from – you could use tech that is very old and well known in the gas and oil industry to get a "teapot" refinery going to refine the diesel you need to keep the generator going - or you can convert the generator to run off alcohol just like in the game (the portable generators in the equipment list) and use that oil for other purposes

thus you don't need to be on mule or manpower to pump that oil – and while many oil wells in the state are only pumping 1-2 barrels per day there are lots of them pumping a lot more – and you could easily see the Army using their portable generators and vehicles to power those pumps and thus get the gas and oil and lubricants they need to keep them going

As for getting the oil to Robinson – I have a feeling the Army would come up with some nice incentives for people who haul oil there to make it into gasoline and jet fuel and other things they need – things like medical care, ammunition, weapon repairs, etc. – could see a whole barter system where oil arrives in a multitude of ways for trading it for useful items – a la Waterworld or Mad Max Thunderdome type set up

(that right there gives me a whole bunch of ideas for campaigns for the GM's in the crowd - "you need mortar rounds, well sure we got some for sale - that's two barrels of crude")

And I don’t see the 194th wasting away a la Howling Wilderness – if the country is falling apart and being in the military means you have guns and power to be able to get food and energy then I highly doubt they would have much trouble recruiting to keep their numbers up - especially if their running that refinery means they have access to all kinds of interesting things versus deserting and taking your chances

[kalos72]

That was always an issue for me, with all the units already in the States, how come NONE of them could do anything?

I mean there are almost 10000 troops just past the Texas border yet they cant clear 1000 near Waco? Sure fuel is low/out but they are infantry...

Anyway I digress...

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by RN7

Howling Wilderness has the U.S. Army 194th Armoured Brigade guarding the oil refinery at Robinson, IL and a few functional oil fields surrounding it. However it also states that a recent accident severely damaged the plants last operating catalytic convertor, and the refinery is currently operating at one percent of its designed capacity. The brigade commander is also considering evacuating from Cairo, IL to Robinson and severing all ties with MilGov.

Doesn't give much information about refineries Oklahoma other than stating there are some or maybe one, and some oil wells. Reference to Colorado also supplying fuel, although that maybe from a depot of scavenged supplies.

From Wikipedia:
"In some FCC catalysts, the Brønsted sites may be later replaced by rare earth metals such as cerium and lanthanum to provide alternative activity and stability levels."
Lanthanum! aha! another connection to the stategic material of the Traveller future. Not in the 2300 AD universe, albeit.

[unkated]

Originally Posted by WallShadow

From Wikipedia:
"In some FCC catalysts, the Brønsted sites may be later replaced by rare earth metals such as cerium and lanthanum to provide alternative activity and stability levels."
Lanthanum! aha! another connection to the stategic material of the Traveller future.

2091 AD* is coming sooner than you think!

Uncle Ted



* 2091 AD is when the Solomani (us here on Terra) discover Traveller Jump Drive technology, using Lanthanum, setting the Traveller universe in motion for the nasty Terrans to topple the Vilani First Imperium, set up the brief Second Empire, collapse it into the Long Night and then start the Third Imperium which grows for 1000 years until it reaches the Classic Traveller period...