G11 Pdw (Moved from archive)

[kato13]

HKpro apparently redesigned their site

I updated the links in the top portion of this thread.

http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?optio...=11:rare-proto..

http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?optio...are-prototypes

http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?optio...military-rifle

[StainlessSteelCynic]

With all the hype given to H&K over the G11, particularly by the HKPro website, one could be forgiven for believing that the G11 was the "one and only" caseless ammo military rifle. One could also be forgiven for thinking that the whole idea in the first place was to develop caseless ammo but that was not originally any part of the 1970s West German project that was examing ways to increase the rifleman's hit probability. The caseless approach came about later as a way to achieve the high fire rate (e.g by using the salvo-fire technique), felt necessary to increase hit probability

Diehl and Mauser were also given contracts to develop a suitable rifle for the project to increase hit probability and it appears that all three parties initially examined the salvo-fire concept as a way to achieve this. While I don't know anything about the Diehl rifle (and the fact that it is barely, if ever, mentioned may possibly suggest it never went much past the development stage), Mauser initially presented a three-barrel design but later dropped the design when the West German government decided the H&K offering with its fast rotating breech was a better solution to increasing hit probability.

In 1978 Mauser chose to present a new design using caseless ammo (apparently developed around about the same time as H&K's caseless ammo and for, presumably, the same reasons). These caseless rounds were conventional in layout but after H&K secured the contract for further development, Mauser chose to discontinue their project. The only reference I have seen aside from some info on the wiki page for the G11, is a late 1970s Jane's Infantry Weapons yearbook (and if I can ever find it in my boxes of books, I'll list the proper details of the book and the Mauser rifle).
It almost seems like Mauser has deliberately chosen to forget their own part in the project as there is so little information available it's no surprise that most people don't know about it, at least in the English speaking world.

[Sanjuro]

According to my battered copy of Modern Small Arms (Salamander, 1978, Frederick Myatt) the SMG with the twisting forestock was the BSA Experimental 1949.
http://www.historicalfirearms.info/p...1949-following
Another candidate was the MCEM2, a very advanced design which suffered from a very high rate of fire. (Designer: Lt. Podsenkowsky)
http://world.guns.ru/smg/brit/mcem-2-e.html
These links are just the result of a quick search after referring to the book: armed with the names it may be possible to find better pictures.

[Draq]

https://youtu.be/UoTU-X0qbnQ

[unkated]

And here I spent years looking at the picture in the book trying to figure what part of the G11's stock was the magazine...

Uncle Ted