Nuke, Nuke, who has the Nuke

[tsofian]

Maybe Krell didn't bring the nuke, maybe it was Prime Base that did it!

We know in cannon that The Project has nuclear explosives. I'd say from a weapon's handling standpoint the weapons will be stored someplace very secure (like Prime Base) and very few people will have to codes to allow arming and detonation (like the PD and perhaps a few other folks)

We know that at some point the base knew it was dying and that it was surrounded by enemies, enemies who had infect an entire refugee population with a disease and were using that also dying population as a shield.

What could be done to save the base, wipe a large number of bad guys out of the equation and end the horrible suffering of the infected people, who will be murdered or enslaved by evil if they survive the disease?

Pop a nuke!

Wipes out the bad guys and may even convince them the base is DEAD, especially if no transmissions come from it in the next few years.

Since the device is pure fusion there won't be much fall out, so that won't be an issue for teams coming back to try and save the base.

Mostly just kidding, but it could work!

[mmartin798]

This idea does have some merit. In Scott Sigler's book, Contagious, a similar measure was used to contain a potential pandemic outbreak.

The only obstacle in the way seems to be a doctrine change in the Project. Somewhere between 3rd edition and 4th edition there must have been some discussion about the fusion demolition charge. That item is not present in 4th edition. That being said, it could be argued that the fusion demolition charge was pulled from the field and no longer included in the MARS-One loadout but a few may have been kept in reserve at Prime Base and the alternate base under the control of the highest levels of the Project.

[dragoon500ly]

I've always had an issue with the fusion demo charge, considering that the heaviest weapons the canon Project is TOW missiles and 81mm mortars and a nuclear weapon'!?!?!

Personally, I don't allow the fusion demo charge in my games. I feel that allowing the players to have access to such a weapon is a very bad idea, players will feel the urge to blow up just about anything, with as much explosive force as possible and for the most unlikely of reasons.

Secondly, for the Project to have access and the willingness to consider using such a device goes against the Project's goals.

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

I've always had an issue with the fusion demo charge, considering that the heaviest weapons the canon Project is TOW missiles and 81mm mortars and a nuclear weapon'!?!?!

Personally, I don't allow the fusion demo charge in my games. I feel that allowing the players to have access to such a weapon is a very bad idea, players will feel the urge to blow up just about anything, with as much explosive force as possible and for the most unlikely of reasons.

Secondly, for the Project to have access and the willingness to consider using such a device goes against the Project's goals.

I agree with this sentiment as well. There is also the possibility that Bruce Morrow, after seeing the rise of the KFS, decided that giving a neo-fascist state potential access to a nuclear weapon being just a bad idea.

[tsofian]

I wouldn't let the players have them, at least until the reclaim Prime Base. Having such an item in a bolt hole, just waiting for someone to dig it up seems a little irresponsible. Allowing field folks to decide when to detonate one also seems a little beyond the pale. Having some at Prime Base for use not only as weapons but for a lot of other purposes (since they are fusion weapons they have very little fallout, so would be great for creating a pass through the mountains or digging a very wide canal in a really big hurry!).

So even if they did get issued to field teams I think without the codes from Prime base they are just really big paperweights

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by tsofian

Having some at Prime Base for use not only as weapons but for a lot of other purposes (since they are fusion weapons they have very little fallout, so would be great for creating a pass through the mountains or digging a very wide canal in a really big hurry!).

The use for creating a pass or a canal has been explored in the US Operation Plowshare and the more extensive Soviet testing under Nuclear Explosions for the National Economy. In these cases, the charges are set to be mostly fusion and minimized the fission. The yields ranged from 10 ton to 140 KT with the average being about 12.5 KT. The fusion demolition charge in 3rd edition is a 1 MT yield. Using it for peaceful purposes seems a bit dubious.

After Operation Plowshare, the civilian uses were deemed limited and risky, but there were combat engineering scenarios that made sense.

[tsofian]

Originally Posted by mmartin798

The use for creating a pass or a canal has been explored in the US Operation Plowshare and the more extensive Soviet testing under Nuclear Explosions for the National Economy. In these cases, the charges are set to be mostly fusion and minimized the fission. The yields ranged from 10 ton to 140 KT with the average being about 12.5 KT. The fusion demolition charge in 3rd edition is a 1 MT yield. Using it for peaceful purposes seems a bit dubious.

After Operation Plowshare, the civilian uses were deemed limited and risky, but there were combat engineering scenarios that made sense.

Yep 1 MT is just nuts. I can't even seen any reasonable reason to have it as a weapon. If the yield is variable it would make more sense. 1 MT is huge even for an ICBM warhead, let a lone something you are going to have to drive away from!

What is limited and risky in a pre war scenario with lots of labor and big D9R Cats and such is far different than what is risky after the war. Having a few around to blow out oil field fires might be a pretty good idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVrosCy3I20

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by tsofian

What is limited and risky in a pre war scenario with lots of labor and big D9R Cats and such is far different than what is risky after the war. Having a few around to blow out oil field fires might be a pretty good idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVrosCy3I20

The Soviet program did demonstrate some interesting use cases. I think this gas fire had been burning for about 3 years until they used the nuke to close it off. The Soviets also used a nuke in shale fields to release natural gas much like non-nuclear fracking today.

[tsofian]

There was talk about using a nuke to stop the Deepwater Horizon spill

[cosmicfish]

I have no objections to the Project having fusion charges (even in the MT range) for a variety of reasons, or to using them in the fall of Prime Base, but they would have extensive controls on them. Even if a team got a hold of one, they would not be able to activate it without codes that probably only a few people would have.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

I have no objections to the Project having fusion charges (even in the MT range) for a variety of reasons, or to using them in the fall of Prime Base, but they would have extensive controls on them. Even if a team got a hold of one, they would not be able to activate it without codes that probably only a few people would have.

Shades of the Andromeda Strain! I can accept the argument that certain critical bases should have a self-destruct position, in my campaign it would be Prime, it's backup and the science bases.

I feel better about modifying the fusion demo charge into a variable yield weapon, with its controlling codes held by, say a regional command base and Prime, who have to release their part of the firing code.

Still, not a weapon that will find itself in a team's possession!

[tsofian]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Shades of the Andromeda Strain! I can accept the argument that certain critical bases should have a self-destruct position, in my campaign it would be Prime, it's backup and the science bases.

I feel better about modifying the fusion demo charge into a variable yield weapon, with its controlling codes held by, say a regional command base and Prime, who have to release their part of the firing code.

Still, not a weapon that will find itself in a team's possession!

I agree completely. No codes for player characters, usually!