The Best That Never Was 2 (Prototypes)

[Draq]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Fortunately revolvers have forcing cones and one is not able to load .44 magnum in a .44 special revolver, same as .357 into a .38. While the reverse is true for specials into magnums that is not true of the Mk19. That ammunition is arrives belted. Even loading a round only separates a link from the next without removing the link from the case unlike MGs or autocannon. One is not able to load regular 40mm for the M203/M320/M79 into a Mk19 and get same to fire.

Touche

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Draq

Touche

Wasn't meant as a snarky reply.

Some persons have never had their hands upon the tremendous and odious fecal sample that spawned from the most diseased recesses of the Naval weapons design bureaus bowels called the Mk19 Mod 3.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by WallShadow

ArmySGT, is that a country cousin/nephew of the Mk 18 Honeywell hand-cranked 40mm GL of the 'Nam era?

I have that on my site, under US GL. It took a bit of thinking on how to simulate hand-cranking.

[Draq]

https://youtu.be/FuZmAtrRsN0 and now for a classic t2k weapon... The m231 fpw. a visual supplement to Paul's article

[The Dark]

I just ran across a reference today to an air defense vehicle I hadn't previously heard about, the Liberty I and II. Both were M1A1 Abrams derivatives, the Liberty I carrying a pair of .50 cal MGs and either 6 Shahine or 12 VT-1 (Crotale NG) missiles, while the Liberty II had a pair of 25mm Bushmasters and 12 VT-1 missiles. They were one of the losing entries in the the LOS-F-H (Line Of Sight, Forward, Heavy) part of the FAADS (Forward Area Air Defense System) program, intended to replaced the DIVAD/Sgt. York.

The LOS-F-H competition ended up being won by the ADATS based on an M113A2 chassis, which was canceled after the end of the Cold War without its inability to operate in inclement weather being corrected.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by The Dark

I just ran across a reference today to an air defense vehicle I hadn't previously heard about, the Liberty I and II. Both were M1A1 Abrams derivatives, the Liberty I carrying a pair of .50 cal MGs and either 6 Shahine or 12 VT-1 (Crotale NG) missiles, while the Liberty II had a pair of 25mm Bushmasters and 12 VT-1 missiles. They were one of the losing entries in the the LOS-F-H (Line Of Sight, Forward, Heavy) part of the FAADS (Forward Area Air Defense System) program, intended to replaced the DIVAD/Sgt. York.

The LOS-F-H competition ended up being won by the ADATS based on an M113A2 chassis, which was canceled after the end of the Cold War without its inability to operate in inclement weather being corrected.

You have any links? Sounds interesting to stat. I'm coming up blank on Bing.

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

You have any links? Sounds interesting to stat. I'm coming up blank on Bing.

I pieced it together from reading a few sites/forum threads elsewhere:
Secret Projects
Imgur pictures of Abrams mock-ups, including Liberty II
Article on Shahine missiles that describes the Liberty proposal, including basic technical information on its radar

[James Langham]

How much interest would there be in an article on the FV499 Hover APC mentioned above?

[The Dark]

The Iron Cow was statted out in this very thread a couple years ago, but a full article could be interesting/useful.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by The Dark

I pieced it together from reading a few sites/forum threads elsewhere:
Secret Projects
Imgur pictures of Abrams mock-ups, including Liberty II
Article on Shahine missiles that describes the Liberty proposal, including basic technical information on its radar

I've seen that vehicle before! I wonder if I have it in one of my books or old Jane's...

[ArmySGT.]

M1A2 System Enhancement Package Version 3

[The Dark]

There's always the venerable MBT-70. Intended to replace the M60 and Leopard 1, it was a joint German-American project armed with a longer-barreled (L/43.5) version of the 152mm gun/launcher used by the M60A2 and M551. It carried 42 rounds (some of which could be tungsten APFSDS), 6 Shillelagh missiles, 660 rounds of 20x139mm ammunition for an Rh 202 L/85 autocannon mounted on the turret roof, and 2700 rounds of 7.62x51mm for either an M73 (US) or MG-3 (German) machine gun. Top speed was 69 km/h, and 1300 liters of fuel was supposed to give it a range of ~645 kilometers.

One innovation was the use of spaced armor to disrupt HEAT warheads. I haven't found actual armor thicknesses, but estimated RHA equivalents (probably to be taken with an entire shaker of salt) are 101mm for the outer front hull and 152mm for the inner front hull, while the sides were 76-105mm (lower-upper), the mantlet around 450mm, the turret sides 63mm and 131 mm (outer and inner), and the turret rear 63mm.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by The Dark

There's always the venerable MBT-70. Intended to replace the M60 and Leopard 1, it was a joint German-American project armed with a longer-barreled (L/43.5) version of the 152mm gun/launcher used by the M60A2 and M551. It carried 42 rounds (some of which could be tungsten APFSDS), 6 Shillelagh missiles, 660 rounds of 20x139mm ammunition for an Rh 202 L/85 autocannon mounted on the turret roof, and 2700 rounds of 7.62x51mm for either an M73 (US) or MG-3 (German) machine gun. Top speed was 69 km/h, and 1300 liters of fuel was supposed to give it a range of ~645 kilometers.

One innovation was the use of spaced armor to disrupt HEAT warheads. I haven't found actual armor thicknesses, but estimated RHA equivalents (probably to be taken with an entire shaker of salt) are 101mm for the outer front hull and 152mm for the inner front hull, while the sides were 76-105mm (lower-upper), the mantlet around 450mm, the turret sides 63mm and 131 mm (outer and inner), and the turret rear 63mm.

I wrote up the MBT70 a year or so back, if you search the forum for it.

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

I wrote up the MBT70 a year or so back, if you search the forum for it.

Would you believe it was three years ago? After looking, I do remember seeing that before, but I hadn't saved it because it's V1, and vehicles changed a lot between V1 and V2.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Not sure where this came from? not sure if it is movie prop or something the the US Army was testing.

Are those AGM-114 Hellfire or AGM-65 Maverick missiles?

I think I found this launcher's origin. It is a "real" launcher but NOT a complete one. The reason there's no CLU (the black box which energizes the missiles) or any cable running from one (like the cable running down the side of the second launcher shown in the field with the two soldiers) is because one is not normally attached to this launch rail. The rail shown made an appearance on the US Navy's Cyclone Class Patrol Ships and the rail launcher is a "plug and play" assembly that connects to the ship's command and control systems (and therefore needs no external power/launch system). I'm guessing the pickup is a delivery vehicle taking it to a ship or test site.

[Draq]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I have that on my site, under US GL. It took a bit of thinking on how to simulate hand-cranking.

https://youtu.be/09RKpXYuxyQ speak of the devil...

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

I think I found this launcher's origin. It is a "real" launcher but NOT a complete one. The reason there's no CLU (the black box which energizes the missiles) or any cable running from one (like the cable running down the side of the second launcher shown in the field with the two soldiers) is because one is not normally attached to this launch rail. The rail shown made an appearance on the US Navy's Cyclone Class Patrol Ships and the rail launcher is a "plug and play" assembly that connects to the ship's command and control systems (and therefore needs no external power/launch system). I'm guessing the pickup is a delivery vehicle taking it to a ship or test site.

The Swedes use a ground-mount Hellfire launcher as a shore defense weapon.

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

The Swedes use a ground-mount Hellfire launcher as a shore defense weapon.

The Swedish launcher looks different. It has a tripod, a U-shaped swivel mount, and a crossbeam at the top that the Hellfire is suspended from. The launcher on the back of the truck doesn't have anything to the outside of the missile, where the Swedish launcher would.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by The Dark

The Swedish launcher looks different. It has a tripod, a U-shaped swivel mount, and a crossbeam at the top that the Hellfire is suspended from. The launcher on the back of the truck doesn't have anything to the outside of the missile, where the Swedish launcher would.

I question whether the rig I saw on the USS Firebolt(?) is anything more than a testing rig. While it is clearly shown mounted amidships with the missiles slung on it, I cannot imagine such a rig going to sea with the missiles hanging exposed to the weather. Even the Griffin Missile Launchers and Stinger Missiles USS Firebolt carries are mounted in enclosed boxes resembling the boxes that Penguin Missiles come it (but smaller, of course).

[ArmySGT.]

Pop goes the Wiesel 2 with a 30mm remote turret.

[shrike6]

I always find Hellfire concept vehicles interesting but then again that goes back to the old M2A3 Bradley Hellfire and the like in the Twilight Vehicle Guides.

http://heartlandmuseum.com/album/alb..._photos_7.html

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I know this is not a "Best that never was" vehicle but speaking of SPAA vehicles based on the M113, I always liked the Italian SIDAM 25.

However to stay on topic and also with the theme of SPAA, there's always the ZSU-37-2 nicknamed "Yenisei".
Developed at the same time as the ZSU-23-4 but determined to be better suited for defence of tank units and SPAAM units but never entered service despite being considered acceptable (and also desirable) for service.



Some good images on the following page although the text appears to be a bad machine translation: -
http://survincity.com/2010/12/zsu-37...he-shilka-one/

And there's this discussion on wiki that reveals more details about the design/development and failure to enter service: -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ZSU-37

[cawest]

I was watching the Expendables 3. the armored train was kind of cool. that might be something to add.

[Matt Wiser]

How about this: this was a real-world concept for an M-1 Air-Ground Defense System...two 35-mm cannon and 12 ADATS missiles in pop-up launchers. Not proceeded past the paper stage.

[dylan]

2s38

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

How about this: this was a real-world concept for an M-1 Air-Ground Defense System...two 35-mm cannon and 12 ADATS missiles in pop-up launchers. Not proceeded past the paper stage.

I have it, in http://www.pmulcahy.com/best_stuff_t...ever_were.htm; it is listed as the GDLS M-1002 Miller AGDS.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Draq

Or the m60 with a m1 turret

M60-2000 Main Battle Tank or 120S made by General Dynamics Land Systems (GDLS)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60-2000_Main_Battle_Tank

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

M60-2000 Main Battle Tank or 120S made by General Dynamics Land Systems (GDLS)

Should I say it?

[Draq]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Should I say it?

I don't think everyone has spent as inordinate amounts of time as I have reading the PDF database...

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Pop goes the Wiesel 2 with a 30mm remote turret.
Attachment 4032

I like that for a Recon Vehicle.