The Best That Never Was 2 (Prototypes)

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I have a question for you regarding the Winchester AT rifle, how did you determine the magazine was 10 rounds?
In the video Ian says "apparently five rounds" and he mentioned single stacked but that box looks plenty big to hold more than five rounds. Without the internals for the magazine it's impossibe to see if it was designed for single or double stacked but it also appears wide enough to be double stacked.
However he does mention that the early versions of the cartridge were rimmed and the design was built around that rimmed cartridge so I'm wondering if there's some confusion on his part because of that?

The few websites I checked that had any details all state 10 round but aside from Historical Firearms site, none had any reference sources so I'm also wondering if you got access to better info that what's on the web? From what you wrote it sounds like you made inquiries at the Cody Museum?

Regardless of all that, thanks for bringing another obscure piece of kit to our attention

[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

I have a question for you regarding the Winchester AT rifle, how did you determine the magazine was 10 rounds?
In the video Ian says "apparently five rounds" and he mentioned single stacked but that box looks plenty big to hold more than five rounds. Without the internals for the magazine it's impossibe to see if it was designed for single or double stacked but it also appears wide enough to be double stacked.
However he does mention that the early versions of the cartridge were rimmed and the design was built around that rimmed cartridge so I'm wondering if there's some confusion on his part because of that?

The few websites I checked that had any details all state 10 round but aside from Historical Firearms site, none had any reference sources so I'm also wondering if you got access to better info that what's on the web? From what you wrote it sounds like you made inquiries at the Cody Museum?

Regardless of all that, thanks for bringing another obscure piece of kit to our attention

No, no better sources. I used Gun Wiki for as much as possible, and the Cody Museum's collections page for the rifle lists the barrel length and overall length, which were the key bits of data I didn't already have. If I was doing something more professional, I would inquire regarding the weight, but I'm happy enough with the ballpark figure that FF&S kicks out to not feel the need to take up museum staff time.

With regards to the ammo, I agree with the general consensus that the magazine looks too large to only hold five rounds, especially for a gravity-feed that doesn't have extensive springs.

[Vespers War]

One more because I'm bored - the Cei-Rigotti automatic rifle of the late 1890s.

Allegedly chambered for 6.5mm Carcano, all the surviving rifles are in 7.65mm Argentine Mauser. Rifles were equipped with 10, 20, or 50 round fixed magazines fed by 5-round stripper clips; the rifle has to be partially disassembled to change the magazine. Its relative lightness would probably make it difficult to control under automatic fire, as indicated by the recoil rating. The gun had some tendency to overheat, as it seized during a test after firing 300 rounds on full automatic.

Cei-Rigotti 7.65mm Automatic Rifle
Wt 4.3 kg, ROF 5, Dam 4, Pen 2-3-Nil, Blk 7, Mag 10c5/20c5/50c5, Rcl 4/10, Rng 73

The "c5" for the Mag entry designates that a 5 round clip can be loaded for each action used to reload the gun.

If there was a 6.5mm Carcano version, it would have the following changes to its statistics:
Dam 3, Pen 2-Nil, Rcl 3/7, Rng 63

Honestly, the Carcano version isn't a half-bad automatic weapon for the early 20th century. The recoil's a bit high for a shoulder-fired weapon and I can see why it wasn't accepted during the era of the Cult of Slow Accurate Long Range Marksmanship, but for trench warfare (either attacking or defending), it would have been extremely useful.