MP satellites

[CraigD6er]

Interesting. The subject of satellites seems to me to ask generate a few questions. I like the idea of hiding satellites by faking failed launches. I'm not sure how long they would survive amongst the debris, the ASAT systems, the radiation and general wear and tear and lack of ground control after so long but it’s certainly a good idea. Personally I had the project not launch any but instead develop their own small satellites and launch vehicles for use 'afterwards'. After all with all the financial backing and technological knowledge, this would be simple for MP to do. If they can hide the power plants, the bolt holes, the armoured vehicle purchases, then a satellite system should be quite feasible too. Satellites in my view would have been pre-built and ready for launch. As technology advances, so do the satellites. Occasionally they and their launch vehicle would be replaced by smaller and more capable designs, until (if you leave your apocalypse date late enough) we get very small satellites that would be launched in clusters on a single rocket, forming their own constellations providing redundancy and better coverage. Such changes of models would be handled by maintenance teams accessing the storage/launch facility to swap out old for new in the same way they can swap old equipment for newer.
A few considerations, whichever route you go:
Firstly, it might be presumed that after the projected apocalypse some satellites would still be functioning. After all, no one has foreseen that so much time would elapse before teams awake (we of course know differently now), so they may well expect that after 5 years either some government satellites or their own prepositioned ones (if launched) are still operational. So the project would probably firstly ensure they have the ability to take control of existing satellites and their feed. Perhaps a dedicated ground station would be needed, redundancy provided by both Prime and Alternate having the same ability. Is it a manned base or does it need visiting to activate/wake the crew? Does one team awake to find instructions to open a nearby bolthole containing a group of techs, wake them and escort them go the ground station?
Secondly, because the project is all about being prepared, it would still be foreseen that some launch capability would be needed in case there are no surviving systems (especially with the development of ASAT systems - anyone remember Salyut 3 and its onboard gun?). Initially this might be attained by acquiring a few old ICBM's and silos, or even a boomer, but as time passes and technology improves I would see an MP subsidiary being a supplier of sounding rockets, with the ability therefore to make some slightly more 'muscular' versions of these and tuck them away for the coming rainy day. So that would need a storage/assembly/launch facility. Is it part of the ground control site or separate? Perhaps it is manned with a crew that has missed its activation call, or maybe a team needs to reach it and activate it themselves? Maybe it can be managed remotely, but the link is down for some reason.
Thirdly what do they actually need satellites for? The most obvious is communications. With their own working network teams can coordinate, bettering their chances of achieving their set goals and making Primes silence even more enigmatic. This is the primary requirement, the rest are not necessarily in the order you may choose.
Navigation is another requirement. This is a function that would work with the comms system, so would be piggy backed off of the same satellite. Not actually essential as they have maps and compass, but a functioning GPS is still nice to have. Plot twist - maybe there's a surviving MP cruise missile available to make best use of this? Whoever controls the ground station could control the missile(s).
Next is some form of sensor package to spot the hot zones, to map the nations damage and to see where is safe if you are relocating survivors.
Also needed would be weather mapping. This becomes essential if you are trying to help survivors become self-sufficient in foods. Yes, people managed for centuries without this, but times have changed and they need all the help they can get.
I also imagine some form of transmission/broadcast facility, so that the project can provide news reports, education and advise to survivors. If you can give communities boxes containing generators, seeds and tools, why not include the means to receive useful information, an MP public broadcast facility? Good PR along with helpful information would help the teams efforts enormously.
I'm not sure imaging in the sense of KH satellites would be perceived as an essential, other than to provide a basic look-see outside the AOR for enemies and their condition, but there may be some facility for this held in reserve. Deep space scientific packages, telescopes etc are way down the list of project priorities.

What size of satellite do they need and what size of rocket? As I said, these would change as advances in technology allow smaller and more capable satellites. I would ultimately expect to see small clusters or constellations of satellites rather than a handful of big ones.
What geographical area needs to be covered? This governs the amount of satellites required, and where they are best launched from. Using existing modules, the emphasis is of course on the USA, with the UK version as represented in The Humber Project as another setting for us Limeys. So you don't for now need global coverage, just enough to cover the projects needs, CONUS or the UK. This does perhaps allow the GM to locate the launch facility somewhere well away from the players start location, because “that's where the optimal launch site is”.

[nduffy]

Originally Posted by CraigD6er

Interesting. The subject of satellites seems to me to ask generate a few questions. I like the idea of hiding satellites by faking failed launches. I'm not sure how long they would survive amongst the debris, the ASAT systems, the radiation and general wear and tear and lack of ground control after so long but it’s certainly a good idea. Personally I had the project not launch any but instead develop their own small satellites and launch vehicles for use 'afterwards'. After all with all the financial backing and technological knowledge, this would be simple for MP to do. If they can hide the power plants, the bolt holes, the armoured vehicle purchases, then a satellite system should be quite feasible too. Satellites in my view would have been pre-built and ready for launch. As technology advances, so do the satellites. Occasionally they and their launch vehicle would be replaced by smaller and more capable designs, until (if you leave your apocalypse date late enough) we get very small satellites that would be launched in clusters on a single rocket, forming their own constellations providing redundancy and better coverage. Such changes of models would be handled by maintenance teams accessing the storage/launch facility to swap out old for new in the same way they can swap old equipment for newer.
A few considerations, whichever route you go:
Firstly, it might be presumed that after the projected apocalypse some satellites would still be functioning. After all, no one has foreseen that so much time would elapse before teams awake (we of course know differently now), so they may well expect that after 5 years either some government satellites or their own prepositioned ones (if launched) are still operational. So the project would probably firstly ensure they have the ability to take control of existing satellites and their feed. Perhaps a dedicated ground station would be needed, redundancy provided by both Prime and Alternate having the same ability. Is it a manned base or does it need visiting to activate/wake the crew? Does one team awake to find instructions to open a nearby bolthole containing a group of techs, wake them and escort them go the ground station?
Secondly, because the project is all about being prepared, it would still be foreseen that some launch capability would be needed in case there are no surviving systems (especially with the development of ASAT systems - anyone remember Salyut 3 and its onboard gun?). Initially this might be attained by acquiring a few old ICBM's and silos, or even a boomer, but as time passes and technology improves I would see an MP subsidiary being a supplier of sounding rockets, with the ability therefore to make some slightly more 'muscular' versions of these and tuck them away for the coming rainy day. So that would need a storage/assembly/launch facility. Is it part of the ground control site or separate? Perhaps it is manned with a crew that has missed its activation call, or maybe a team needs to reach it and activate it themselves? Maybe it can be managed remotely, but the link is down for some reason.
Thirdly what do they actually need satellites for? The most obvious is communications. With their own working network teams can coordinate, bettering their chances of achieving their set goals and making Primes silence even more enigmatic. This is the primary requirement, the rest are not necessarily in the order you may choose.
Navigation is another requirement. This is a function that would work with the comms system, so would be piggy backed off of the same satellite. Not actually essential as they have maps and compass, but a functioning GPS is still nice to have. Plot twist - maybe there's a surviving MP cruise missile available to make best use of this? Whoever controls the ground station could control the missile(s).
Next is some form of sensor package to spot the hot zones, to map the nations damage and to see where is safe if you are relocating survivors.
Also needed would be weather mapping. This becomes essential if you are trying to help survivors become self-sufficient in foods. Yes, people managed for centuries without this, but times have changed and they need all the help they can get.
I also imagine some form of transmission/broadcast facility, so that the project can provide news reports, education and advise to survivors. If you can give communities boxes containing generators, seeds and tools, why not include the means to receive useful information, an MP public broadcast facility? Good PR along with helpful information would help the teams efforts enormously.
I'm not sure imaging in the sense of KH satellites would be perceived as an essential, other than to provide a basic look-see outside the AOR for enemies and their condition, but there may be some facility for this held in reserve. Deep space scientific packages, telescopes etc are way down the list of project priorities.

What size of satellite do they need and what size of rocket? As I said, these would change as advances in technology allow smaller and more capable satellites. I would ultimately expect to see small clusters or constellations of satellites rather than a handful of big ones.
What geographical area needs to be covered? This governs the amount of satellites required, and where they are best launched from. Using existing modules, the emphasis is of course on the USA, with the UK version as represented in The Humber Project as another setting for us Limeys. So you don't for now need global coverage, just enough to cover the projects needs, CONUS or the UK. This does perhaps allow the GM to locate the launch facility somewhere well away from the players start location, because “that's where the optimal launch site is”.

I am leaning towards a few missiles with Starlink styles satellites on board. Small Satellites that can be launched and stationed over the US into orbit for communications, mapping, weather and of course surveillance/ recon. Packages of satellites could also function in various roles, A two man team in an old silo or stationed near by for launch when awakened, onced launched they sit back and find ways to combat bordum till they are pulled out or find another team . The advantages a few communication satellites would give would be priceless.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by nduffy

The advantages a few communication satellites would give would be priceless.

Balloons/Solar powered drones carrying comms equipment could be either a stopgap during the initial phases or a long term solution if debris or launch equipment are problematic.

[nduffy]

Originally Posted by kato13

Balloons/Solar powered drones carrying comms equipment could be either a stopgap during the initial phases or a long term solution if debris or launch equipment are problematic.

Really good idea. I also see airships being used as relays and temporary solutions. Last time I was in West Texas we saw a tethered airship at an undisclosed DHS facility. I assume they are using it for radio traffic and possibly a surveillance platform. like a balloon it could be used as a stop gap and temporary back up when needed.
I could see a solar powered drone or even a large drone with a small NDB or NTB power supply flying or hovering in an area as a relay/ repeater, when the weather gets bad it finds a safe place to land or returns to base. With a fairly high ceiling you could get a long range out of it. These could go to comm teams or even a recon team or two in an area to help set up comm grids and data links.

[CraigD6er]

Airships would definitely be a good option and ties in quite nicely with the Ballooners survivor group in the manual. Long endurance comms relay stations would be only one use. A silent spec ops carrier for a time when no one has functioning radar, a slow but silent bomber, large cargo delivery would all be good options. It's a bit Airlords of the Ozarks, which isn't a bad thing. Could you store the necessary gases for a long period and then build an airship from pre-made parts?
Has anyone read the Helldivers series by Sansbury Smith? Post WWIII survivors living in a slowly failing airship and diving to the shattered earth for supplies. Not a bad read. Lots of problems to resolve (weather, limited supplies, mutants and the detritus of war on the ground). It does at least give some possible scenario ideas.

[nduffy]

Well, this came up in my feed today,, a drone that launches a rocket that boost satellites into low earth orbits,,, I can see this as an alternative. The satellite comes prepackaged and the launch vehicle is fairly autonomous. You could in theory launch several satellites a day.
https://theaviationist.com/2020/12/0...ht-satellites/

[nduffy]

Anyone familiar with Rocket Lab? They are using smaller rockets to boost smaller satellites into low earth orbits and are doing so successfully. These could be stored in old revamped silos and launched PA if and when needed. Just fuel for thought and game ideas.

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by nduffy

Well, this came up in my feed today,, a drone that launches a rocket that boost satellites into low earth orbits,,, I can see this as an alternative. The satellite comes prepackaged and the launch vehicle is fairly autonomous. You could in theory launch several satellites a day.
https://theaviationist.com/2020/12/0...ht-satellites/

Did a little reading on my break. An interesting concept using a drone as the first stage. I do like the fact they do call the drone the first stage since the rocket can fire very quickly after separation rather than coasting like other airborne launch platforms. The use of Jet-A as fuel for both the drone and the rocket, the rocket also carrying LOX, does simplify things.

If such a system were used by MP, it would likely have to be a specialized base. You need a one-mile runway for takeoff and landing and a supply of Jet-A. LOX can be generated on site. I am imagining a desert location, since making a usable one-mile runway would be pretty simple there.

[mmartin798]

The size of the satellite and the launch vehicle is very interesting. We now have small satellites ranging from 100g femto-satellites, 1kg pico-satellites, 10kg nano-satellites, 100kg micro-satellites, and 500kg mini-satellites (the masses are the upper mass value for that class satellite). In the mini- and micro- sizes, they are doing radiation measurements, ground surveillance, weather tracking, and internet connectivity. Current GPS Block IIF satellites are massive, coming in at 1630kg. It would not be as easy for MP to launch a comparable constellation of satellites. Could MP launch a constellation of smaller satellites giving accuracy on the order of a meter instead of a few cm? With enough handwavium it can be reasonable.

This is important, because there are a number of private, small Single Stage to Orbit (SSO) launch vehicles out there. One of them is Electron, which in it's current version can handle a 300kg payload to LEO and 200kg payload SSO. Electron rockets are only 17m tall and 1.2m in diameter. These are small and would be easy to launch almost anywhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_(rocket)

It would not be unreasonable to imagine 10-12 semi-tractor pulling trailers and tankers being able to make a portable launch site just about anywhere. 1 trailer with eight Electron rockets, 1 having the gantry, 2 forming the tracking radar, 1 fusion generator and 5-7 tankers carrying RP-1 and LOX. That's a lot of satellites from a relatively small group of vehicles.