On this day 25 years ago (Commentary Thread)

[shrike6]

A little confused, the 21st Cav was a TDA unit in charge of Apache training and was called the "Apache Training Brigade" before mid 1996. Did they stop training Apache Pilots for the US Army and allies when III Corps deployed? Also where are the 16th, 164th, 165th or theFlying Mustangs of 15th Av Bde being used?

[chico20854]

Originally Posted by shrike6

A little confused, the 21st Cav was a TDA unit in charge of Apache training and was called the "Apache Training Brigade" before mid 1996. Did they stop training Apache Pilots for the US Army and allies when III Corps deployed? Also where are the 16th, 164th, 165th or theFlying Mustangs of 15th Av Bde being used?

I BS'd that as part of an attempt to get each of at least the primarily active-duty corps an aviation brigade. (GDW's assignment of 6 ACCB and 18th Avn Bde gave XVIII Airborne Corps two and left none for III Corps).

What I have from my notes for 21 ACCB:
This unit was originally formed in the mid-1980s as a centralized training unit for AH-64 Apache battalions, known as the Apache Training Brigade. By 1993, the Apache had been widely fielded and the unit initially was slated to deactivate, but instead it was retained and designated as III Corps’ supporting combat aviation brigade, assigned two AH-64 battalions and single UH-60, CH-47 and support aviation units.
1-229th Attack Helicopter Bn: 18 AH-64, 13 OH-58C, 3 UH-60A
4-227th Attack Helicopter Bn: 18 AH-64, 13 OH-58C, 3 UH-60A
1-108th Aviation Bn (USAR): 46 UH-60
3-159th Aviation Bn (USAR): 72 UH-1H
Co G, 104th Aviation (CT NG): 13 CH-47D
(I created the Apache units, the other units came from elsewhere in the force structure, which was a hot mess!)

The other aviation brigades I have are:
1 (Training) - Remains at Rucker under TRADOC
6 ACCB - XVIII Airborne Corps
11th - VII Corps
12th - V Corps
17th - 8th Army
18th - XVIII Airborne Corps
21 ACCB - III Corps
22 - XI Corps
27 - XX Corps
66 - I Corps
128 - SOUTHCOM
160 SOAR - SOCCENT
166 - XXIII Corps

Filling those units out required the creation of three attack helo battalions (two active duty for 21 ACCB and a USAR AH-1 battalion for 22nd Bde); between those units, the divisional aviation brigades and cav squadrons and the ACRs the US Army's inventory of helicopters looks pretty slim, even with continued Cold War-era production rates.

[shrike6]

Originally Posted by chico20854

I BS'd that as part of an attempt to get each of at least the primarily active-duty corps an aviation brigade. (GDW's assignment of 6 ACCB and 18th Avn Bde gave XVIII Airborne Corps two and left none for III Corps).

I noticed the III Corps conundrum as well. I took a slightly different approach Instead of making up units I looked at the history of the Aviation Branch and saw three of the Aviation Groups (11, 12 and 17) from the Vietnam era were already being used as Aviation Brigades. Another was being used by Spec Ops(160). Leaving three (16, 164 and 165) plus the group (15) in Europe at that time.
The 21ACCB is interesting in that it had no history but does have a cool patch. It was designated as such because of Force XXI.
It had two distinct missions
- Fielding of Apaches and Kiowa Warriors to both Active and Reserves. I assumed they would field Comanches as well.
- Provide support to the Department of State and Department of Defense for Foreign Military Sales and Security Assistance. The United States worked to supply Apache technology and aircraft to several allies.
A third was added during the GWOT and was to assist Aviation units prepping for deployment.

Given those items I felt it wouldnt be activated as a line unit until later in the war and would allow for more diversity during the Mexican invasion like the British/German Brigade in Canada. What is a Mexican invasion without the Dutch?

I agree as the war goes on Aviation units will be less plentiful. Early Corps would have full Bde then it would trickle to down to Corps just having an Aviation Group or maybe a Battalion if even that. My assumption is that you wont see alot new Apache/Blackhawk units after a certain point early in the war as whatever production would be used as war replacements but you might see units containing MD500s/AH-6s or other helicopters but even those fade away too. At some point new aviation units are formed from existing civilian helicopter like news choppers, air ambulances, tourist helicopters, etc. Whatever they can get a hold of.

One other note. The 166 Aviation Group/Bde was a USAR Aviation Group stationed at Illesheim and subordinate to the 11th Aviation Brigade during the late 80s early 90s. Not sure whether it was the Attack or Assault Group for the Brigade.

I'm probably just cranky recovering from surgery. I'll go back to waiting for the next episode instead of nitpicking.

[chico20854]

Originally Posted by shrike6

I'm probably just cranky recovering from surgery. I'll go back to waiting for the next episode instead of nitpicking.

No, I appreciate the feedback! I'll see what I can do to adjust to some ID's that make more sense! I hope your recovery goes well!