Optical relay for bradley

[dragoon500ly]

Speaking from the heavy metal side of the house, the tank gunner controls the laser range finder, ballistic computer, night vision and weapon selection (main gun or coax). The tank commander has an override control to cut the gunner out and slew the turret to new targets, he can also laser range or fire the selected weapon only. The TC sight is an extension that allows him to use the gunner's periscope head. On most tanks this means that the TC has to drop inside the turret and look through his scope. On older tanks (M48/60s) the TC has to operate the rangefinder from his down position.

The M60A3 had a extension piece just for the night vision. I've always loved it because it was adjustable (to an extent) and it was possible to angle it so that I could look down and see what the gunner was tracking while keeping my head out of the turret. The M-1 switched back to the TC dropping down to use his sight.

On most tanks, the loader controls the safeties for the main gun and coax. On the M-1, the coax is mounted near the gunner and he has to reach up and enage the safety. Never liked that feature, but the Abrams has a fairly large coax feed box that takes up the traditional coax mount location.

Tank crews train for minimum crew, the TC can operate the gunnery systems, usually by using the toe of his boot and a lot of stretching. Can be quite amusing if you reading a map and yapping on the radio at the same time. Tankers can be quite flexible!

As for the tanks external load...four duffle bags, four rucksacks, four sleeping bags for the crew, two camouflage nets (a 10'x10' diamond and a 20'x20 hexagon)'with a bag of poles and spreaders, the tank tarp, a 155mm powder can loaded with maps of the area, four cases of MREs, most crews had a fifth duffle bag (or a 25mm ammo can from the Bradleys) loaded with NBC suits, spare filters and the decon kits, at least two 5-gal water cans, and a can each of 10W and 30W oil for the trannie/engine. Everything has to be packed on top of the turret, behind the hatches (THANK GAWD for bungee cords!) and covered with the tarp to protect the junk from the weather. You quickly mastered the art of getting everything inside the tarp and securing it so that it kept the turret clear for rotation.

M-1 has two hull sponson boxes to store the pioneer, track maintenance tools and the bore brush and poles to punch the main gun. A tool bag with hammer, adjustable wrench, box wreches, a sprocket set, files, screwdrivers, pliers and a grease gun. A dozen reload gease tubes, not to mention spare end connectors and center guides for the track.

The turret has two sponson boxes, used to hold smaller items of the tank kit like cleaning rags, small arms cleaning kit, critical spare parts, the LBE and Kevlar helmets of the crew and some of the machine gun ammo cans (IIRC the loader stored eight cans of 7.62 in his and the TC stored six cans of .50 in his).

As you can see, a lot of necessary junk to clutter up things.

[HorseSoldier]

In the system I use I treat most autocannon 'bursts' as a series of single shots fired in quick succession rather than as bursts in the way that small arms automatic bursts are treated.

I wouldn't apply any burst penalties for coax machineguns firing either, if using 2.x rules, since the only thing recoil is doing is providing the planned for dispersion on the gun. The gunnery SOPs for US AFVs call for blasting personnel targets with coax MG fire at a rate that would make light infantry guys who have to haul their ammo on their backs wince in pain just watching.

[dragoon500ly]

LOL, that's why the M-1 carries 10,000 rounds of 7.62mm and another 1,140 in .50 cal.

I do miss the days when a tank had HEP and Beehive rounds. Just to keep the crunchies entertained!

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

LOL, that's why the M-1 carries 10,000 rounds of 7.62mm and another 1,140 in .50 cal.

I do miss the days when a tank had HEP and Beehive rounds. Just to keep the crunchies entertained!

Those days may be back: while I never got to shoot one, a few canister rounds filtered out our way. 1400 1/4“ tungsten pellets.

As far as stowage what we wound up doing was attaching 4 40mm cans to our bustle for POL and what have you, not to mention a bustle rack extension next to the APU sized just right for four duffles. Took forever to load us up as the entire troop was packrats.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I need a little assistance...

I'm almost positive I've seen an ARV based on the M2 Bradley chassis in a similar way that the M88 is based on the M60. Does such a vehicle exist, even in prototype form, and what might it's towing capacity be?

Erm... Sorta. FMC built a repair vehicle based on the MLRS, but it wasn't a true ARV. IIRC, only one or two was made. You might find more info on it in the 92-93 Janes logistics and mines book if memory serves.

[Legbreaker]

Ok, as it's a rarity at best, what's the towing capacity of a Bradley? Could it pull a dead weight (no wheels) of say 10+ tonnes?

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Ok, as it's a rarity at best, what's the towing capacity of a Bradley? Could it pull a dead weight (no wheels) of say 10+ tonnes?

I've seen Bradleys tow other Bradleys, but it was slow going.

[Legbreaker]

I'm assuming that was while they still had tracks in place?

[Panther Al]

I am going to assume then that you mean another dead tracked vehicle; that being so, and assuming flat hard ground, sure, but not fast and not for far. Though this is an educated guess on my part.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Those days may be back: while I never got to shoot one, a few canister rounds filtered out our way. 1400 1/4“ tungsten pellets.

As far as stowage what we wound up doing was attaching 4 40mm cans to our bustle for POL and what have you, not to mention a bustle rack extension next to the APU sized just right for four duffles. Took forever to load us up as the entire troop was packrats.

LOL, always wondered if they would develop a canister when they switched to smoothbore!

As for the storage...I date back to when you had that silly web strap hanging off the back of the turret...when the extension came out on the IPM1, there were several beers hoisted at the NCO club to that unnamed warrant officer!!!

[Legbreaker]

Disabled vehicle, huge log, boulder, whatever.
Although I think we can assume the big tanks aren't likely to be slowed too much by typical obstacles or similar loads, I'm curious to know what a Bradley could shift if it came to the crunch.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Disabled vehicle, huge log, boulder, whatever.
Although I think we can assume the big tanks aren't likely to be slowed too much by typical obstacles or similar loads, I'm curious to know what a Bradley could shift if it came to the crunch.

Don't know about that, I've seen M-1s get hung up on stumps, and they have the highest belly clearance and most power of any US tank.

I have to go along with the rest, a Bradley can generally tow another Bradley as long as its roads/trails...going cross country, then I've always seen them towed by M-88s.

[Eddie]

The technical rule isn't given in tonnage, but a Bradley can pull a Bradley, but not an Abrams. This is in neutral with the primary drives disengaged. If the tranny is locked up, we can't pull it without damaging ourselves, but it will pull it. My educated guess is the same about the Bradley pulling an Abrams as well, it's possible but causes damage.

As long as the Bradley isn't getting high centered and can use the towing BII like a snatch block, it can pull out just about any tree or boulder up to it's size. I'll dig in my TMs and FMs and see if I can't find tonnage today while I'm looking for some kind of work to keep me busy, but in Bradley School, they never published it.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I'm assuming that was while they still had tracks in place?

Yes, with tracks.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Eddie

The technical rule isn't given in tonnage, but a Bradley can pull a Bradley, but not an Abrams. This is in neutral with the primary drives disengaged. If the tranny is locked up, we can't pull it without damaging ourselves, but it will pull it. My educated guess is the same about the Bradley pulling an Abrams as well, it's possible but causes damage.

For reference, a Bradley weighs 38 tons.

[Legbreaker]

I've got a fair bit of experience with bulldozers and the like and understand that the ground itself is going to limit the possibilities - loose gravel or mud for example is going to make it difficult to shift a significant load as will hard rock that doesn't allow the tracks to grip.

I suppose the question has more to do with the capability of the engine and transmission than ground conditions. It also revolves around how much stress individual components can take before failing.

To simplify, if the Bradley was a rope, what would it's breaking strain be... At what point are you going to break something you can't live without.

[pmulcahy11b]

The Bradleys I've seen towed with other Bradleys were over hard-packed dirt trails in fair weather using tow cable, but I have seen two Bradleys pull out a Bradley stuck in the mud -- that was three Bradley engines working in concert.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I've got a fair bit of experience with bulldozers and the like and understand that the ground itself is going to limit the possibilities - loose gravel or mud for example is going to make it difficult to shift a significant load as will hard rock that doesn't allow the tracks to grip.

One of the things I was taught in the National Guard is, under those circumstances, sometimes piling rocks or logs under the front of the drive wheels or the front of the tracks will help quite a bit.

[pmulcahy11b]

Enough ice can make a tracked vehicle skid. I put my M577 through the motor pool fence one night during an alert in Korea, and I saw an M-60A3 skid the same night, the rear end fishtailing quite a bit.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Enough ice can make a tracked vehicle skid. I put my M577 through the motor pool fence one night during an alert in Korea, and I saw an M-60A3 skid the same night, the rear end fishtailing quite a bit.

I can see the movie now - Vin Diesel in 'The Fast and The Furious - Armoured Drift'

[cavtroop]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Enough ice can make a tracked vehicle skid. I put my M577 through the motor pool fence one night during an alert in Korea, and I saw an M-60A3 skid the same night, the rear end fishtailing quite a bit.

LOL, we were on maneuvers in northern Germany once, and got a nasty ice storm. We were bivouacked at some Air Force radar facility on top of a hill - we tried to get down, and my M577 slid for probably 100 yards down the road before coming to a halt, along with a few others. We ended up leaving them there, and spending another (unplanned) night at the AF facility.

I think the issue there was with the road pads, they got hard and frozen like hockey pucks. If we didn't have them on (and wouldn't in a combat situation), we probably would have made it, but we had to leave them on or the Germans would have killed us for tearing up the roads

[pmulcahy11b]

Strange how alerts always happen in the early morn? Most of ours happened at o-dark-hundred, except for a couple in the evening and one in the morning. That one was during PT, we had just gone to extended mass formation, and then the siren went off. I immediately turned and ran for the motor pool. Everyone else just stood there, arms raised in double interval dress-right-dress, until the Sergeant Major yelled, "Don't just stand there, you idiots!"

In their defense, we had just had a call-out alert six hours earlier. They must have thought it was a mistake. But it turned out to be a roll-out alert.

Speaking of alerts, have you ever been in a MOPP 4 alert and had someone so hammered they threw up in their mask, but were forced to wear it anyway? Happened to a friend of mine. He also couldn't find his HMMWV even though he was three feet away from it.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

LOL, always wondered if they would develop a canister when they switched to smoothbore!

As for the storage...I date back to when you had that silly web strap hanging off the back of the turret...when the extension came out on the IPM1, there were several beers hoisted at the NCO club to that unnamed warrant officer!!!

Yeah, we called it our 9th gauge. But the extensions was attached to the extended bustle, by the time you figured in the ammo can bins, it covered all of the rear deck.

[dragoon500ly]

Speaking of alerts, have you ever been in a MOPP 4 alert and had someone so hammered they threw up in their mask, but were forced to wear it anyway? Happened to a friend of mine. He also couldn't find his HMMWV even though he was three feet away from it.

I've seen GIs so hammered that they fall out for morning PT in a jock strap, tee-shirt and unlaced combat boots, you know, the ones that do the front leaning rest, puke and pass out....

Never had someone puke in the mask and not be allowed to clear it though...pissed off his sergeant did he?

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Yeah, we called it our 9th gauge. But the extensions was attached to the extended bustle, by the time you figured in the ammo can bins, it covered all of the rear deck.

Just me, but I never liked having too much gear hanging of the back and sides of the turret...but then I was the tank that always had to cover the alley or have to bust bush and that junk got torn off quick!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Never had someone puke in the mask and not be allowed to clear it though...pissed off his sergeant did he?

SFC Richard was...unhappy with him. Eric was essentially a limp body for that alert, and PFC Park (one of our Katusas) had to drive the Major's HMMWV, which upset Sergeant Richard and the Major since Park was a certified road hazard behind the wheel. I don't know, Eric may have been so hammered at the time the mask didn't bother him...

It's not that he wasn't allowed to clear the mask, he just had to wear the damn thing after clearing it as best he could. Puke doesn't blow out of filters that well. Eric caught hell from the NBC NCOIC for that one as well -- Sergeant Richard lent him to the NBC section to clean up the masks of people outprocessing and inprocessing for a day, and the NBC NCOIC was definitely a bitch. You didn't want to get on her bad side.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

I've seen GIs so hammered that they fall out for morning PT in a jock strap, tee-shirt and unlaced combat boots, you know, the ones that do the front leaning rest, puke and pass out....

We had one guy in Basic who, when we were dropped in the front leaning rest, just fell asleep! They doused him with two cans of water then did the Heartbreak Ridge thing on him -- they made him run around the platoon for two miles. At least it wasn't for the whole run.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

We had one guy in Basic who, when we were dropped in the front leaning rest, just fell asleep! They doused him with two cans of water then did the Heartbreak Ridge thing on him -- they made him run around the platoon for two miles. At least it wasn't for the whole run.

Nothing is worse in basic than being both the old man (all of 29) and being the one to actually be dumb enough to actually say: Do you really believe the sh@@ that is coming out of your mouth?

- still shuddering in memory -

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Nothing is worse in basic than being both the old man (all of 29) and being the one to actually be dumb enough to actually say: Do you really believe the sh@@ that is coming out of your mouth?

- still shuddering in memory -

Jeez -- at 22, I was the oldest man in my Basic Training platoon. Though there was a guy in 2nd Platoon who was 35 -- he was returning to the Army after being out for 10 years.

[cavtroop]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Jeez -- at 22, I was the oldest man in my Basic Training platoon. Though there was a guy in 2nd Platoon who was 35 -- he was returning to the Army after being out for 10 years.

We had a 36 year old that was out for 10 years or so. Good guy, good to have around.