Tracked vehicle attrition

[kiltedguard]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Nice to see someone who has actually done it - seen it myself here at the plant in York.

And you are right about how much fun it would be in the field - it can be done - but it would be a lot easier if you had an M88 along for the ride with your M1 or Bradley when the time came.

It would be a heroic task for a single person to do with an M1...easier with a Bradley. It's the sheer wieght of the M1 track sections. An 88 and a contact team would make it SOOOO much eaier and quicker.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by kiltedguard

It would be a heroic task for a single person to do with an M1...easier with a Bradley. It's the sheer wieght of the M1 track sections. An 88 and a contact team would make it SOOOO much eaier and quicker.

AMEN BROTHER

Breaking track in the field, in a Twilight 2000 scenario, would be a load of fun - especially since you would be screwed if you had to suddenly try to put it back together if you get visited by marauders

[kiltedguard]

Originally Posted by Olefin

AMEN BROTHER

Breaking track in the field, in a Twilight 2000 scenario, would be a load of fun - especially since you would be screwed if you had to suddenly try to put it back together if you get visited by marauders

And that is EXACTLY when they would show up because GM's are horrible evil creatures.

[Olefin]

be a great way to build tension even if they didnt show up - and possibly have the guy doing it screw up and injure himself in the process

"the sudden noise made you jump and injure yourself badly"

or even more fun - you are finally getting the track back together when you hear the gunner yell "tank, tank, tank"

[kiltedguard]

Originally Posted by Olefin

be a great way to build tension even if they didnt show up - and possibly have the guy doing it screw up and injure himself in the process

"the sudden noise made you jump and injure yourself badly"

or even more fun - you are finally getting the track back together when you hear the gunner yell "tank, tank, tank"

That's not unrealistic. If you were to "throw track", that is if the track were to slip off the sprocket, you could slip it back on if it hadn't slipped too far off. This requires a large steel bar referred to as a "rooster bar" or tanker/track bar. It's a lot like putting the chain back on your bicycle. Just will a massive machine that can crush you. It is very easy to get hurt doing it and is usually a result of poor maintenance or bad track tension.

[Webstral]

I do not miss breaking track. I never worked on an M1. My track was an M577. This was arduous enough. I can only imagine what a bear of a task breaking and replacing track for an M1 must be.

[kiltedguard]

Overall I would say that there are some tanks that are easy enough to keep functioning, but the wear and tear of using them would be primary on the minds of those shepherding that resource. M1's wouldn't last long in an austere environment with no direct support. That is the one thing that the Russians had in their favor. Lots of the same type of vehicle...as opposed to NATO which had many different MBT's ect.

I would think Eastern Block tracked vehicles would be easier to keep running. To see a running M1 would be both a frightening and unusual experience in T2K. The commander would have needed to be thinking ahead and almost have his own maintenance crew and have stripped other vehicles prior to moving out. I'm not saying it wasn't done in numbers, and to a degree...farther back from the front lines, that might be possible.

[Adm.Lee]

This is all sounding like something I've been thinking. Each one of those armored brigades or divisions in 2000 would have a near-full-strength maintenance battalion following those armored monsters around. Further reason to concentrate them as much as possible. We're talking about fuel trucks, parts trucks, scavenging crews and machine shops to make everything needed. An armored formation might leap forward 50km in a day, but then it's gonna sit for a while.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I do not miss breaking track. I never worked on an M1. My track was an M577. This was arduous enough. I can only imagine what a bear of a task breaking and replacing track for an M1 must be.

One of the great things about being in the Heavy Cav, is that I have had the chance to break track on M1's, 88's, M2's, 113's, and the 577's. I can't believe how easy it was to break track on the 113 style tracks compared to the M1's. The M1 is a beast. Now, its not exactly hard: Put the track jacks on either side of the track so it straddles the block you are breaking. Then, unbolt the centre guides and the ends. Now, grab the burliest, strongest, SOB you got, and the biggest sledge you can steal. And pound the ever-loving crap until the ends pop off. Once that is down, grab your tankers bar, another two or three guys, and very very very carefully loosen the jacks and lower the track to the ground... oh, yeah.. make sure you advance the track so the break is between the idler and the first road wheel before you start. Remember, each of those blocks are 80 pounds, and odds are you got 4 or 5 hanging in the air you gotta hold up...



Yeah.

Give me 113 track any day. Heck, I'd take Brad track!

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

make sure you advance the track so the break is between the idler and the first road wheel before you start.

The very first time I helped break track, we failed to do that. I was new, so I didn't dare voice my feeling that were doing something wrong by breaking the track in the middle of the row of road wheels. It seemed very, very hard to do it there. I figured if there was a better place to break track, surely the more senior guys in the unit would know. Right? Little did I know that the other guys also were almost as new to heavy engineering as I was. We broke track, then backed the vehicle off the track. To make a long story short, the maintenance guys eventually showed up, along with the battalion XO. Bad juju, man.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by Webstral

The very first time I helped break track, we failed to do that. I was new, so I didn't dare voice my feeling that were doing something wrong by breaking the track in the middle of the row of road wheels. It seemed very, very hard to do it there. I figured if there was a better place to break track, surely the more senior guys in the unit would know. Right? Little did I know that the other guys also were almost as new to heavy engineering as I was. We broke track, then backed the vehicle off the track. To make a long story short, the maintenance guys eventually showed up, along with the battalion XO. Bad juju, man.

Yeah... sometimes you have no choice, but... man. That blows having to do it there.


Then again, you could be a smartass, not that I was, there is no witnesses saying I was at any rate, and pull the track pins on both sides of a brad's track just past the #1 road wheel...


Heheh...

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Yeah... sometimes you have no choice, but... man. That blows having to do it there.

I don’t think we had to. That’s the problem. We just did it the hard way for no good reason.

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Then again, you could be a smartass, not that I was, there is no witnesses saying I was at any rate, and pull the track pins on both sides of a brad's track just past the #1 road wheel...

I forgot where the sprocket wheel on an M2 is, so I had to go find an image. I see there are sprockets on the forward set. I can’t find an image that gives me a good look at the rear to see if there is a sprocket wheel back there, too. Not likely, I guess. Given that the forward sprocket wheel can drive the track, did the driver of the vehicle roll forward until the loose end went over the return rollers and came off the sprocket wheel, flopping to the ground in front of the #1 road wheel and leaving twin strips of track lying forlornly behind an IFV no longer capable of moving itself? If so, that’s just messed up.

[kiltedguard]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Yeah... sometimes you have no choice, but... man. That blows having to do it there.


Then again, you could be a smartass, not that I was, there is no witnesses saying I was at any rate, and pull the track pins on both sides of a brad's track just past the #1 road wheel...


Heheh...

Youuuuuuu rat bastard....

[Panther Al]

Hey! They deserved it! Even the 1SG said as much - saying when he was looking right at *me* that the perps would be punished hard - and then never could find the perp in question.


A few weeks before, on the day before an IG inspection, the crew of said Brad decided that the 66 Track would be better off stuffed to the gills with styrofoam peanuts - applied stealthily the previous weekend. You have no idea how hard, and how many hours spent over the day and night before the inspection it took to get the tank strac again.


If they did this the following weekend? OK, funny, minor gag in retaliation. *Just* before an IG inspection? Nuclear Retaliation Alpha Strike.

[kiltedguard]

You and your crew were terrible people. I have NEVER done such a deplorable thing to my fellow soldiers... *Looks around innocently*

[Targan]

Originally Posted by kiltedguard

That's not unrealistic. If you were to "throw track", that is if the track were to slip off the sprocket, you could slip it back on if it hadn't slipped too far off. This requires a large steel bar referred to as a "rooster bar" or tanker/track bar. It's a lot like putting the chain back on your bicycle. Just will a massive machine that can crush you. It is very easy to get hurt doing it and is usually a result of poor maintenance or bad track tension.

That sounds a bit like the perils of owning your own dragon. It's a beast of war so awesomely destructive that it will even sometimes accidentally kill its owner, and not even require it's breath weapon main armament to do it. It just mis-stepped, critically chipped a toe claw and the ricochet decapitated it's rider.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I do not miss breaking track. I never worked on an M1. My track was an M577. This was arduous enough. I can only imagine what a bear of a task breaking and replacing track for an M1 must be.

Last time I broke track on a 577, it was because we had to change all the track pads on both sides for the whole TAC. Just a long, labor-intensive activity...we started with an air gun for the track pad bolts, but it gave up and had a meltdown before we finished the first track...after that, it was the misery of tightening bolts with breaker bars on a hot day and an activity that stretched well into the night...the TAC had four 577s and two 113s...

[kiltedguard]

Ironically enough, my current character I'm playing with (well...just started) was a team leader on one of the combat service support teams sent forward to cannibalize equipment and bring parts back. His team got jumped, he got separated...