OT: Alien invasion

[Jason Weiser]

I picked this up for giggles, and it's a fairly good treatise on how 1) Earth could be defended and 2) How aliens might go about it and more importantly, why? It's technical, and science heavy, but a good read. He demolishes Sagan in two sentences (always good for a laugh) and for $6, it's a great time filler. And, I think, VERY germane to our discussion.

http://www.webscription.net/p-1383-alien-invasion.aspx

[Raellus]

I think a preemptive strike makes sense, especially once humanity shows the slightest inclination (and practical capability) to begin colonizing other words.

Other, extraterrestrial civilizations may also have experienced a "Great Singularity" where their A.I.s have surpassed their creators' intelligence and have begun creating more and more intelligent versions of themselves, multiplying exponentially and wiping out all biological life as dangerous and obsolete. Instead of robots we can fight and defeat (think Daleks, Cybermen, Cylons, etc.), these sentient super-A.I.s would come at us with trillions of tiny, flesh consuming nanites. Game over.

Any species that can traverse light years' worth of space will have technologies that make our smartphones and smartbombs look like sticks and stones. We won't stand a chance.

The historical case study of the Spanish Conquistadors' comnquest of the Aztec empire offers some interesting precedents. The Aztecs welcomed them at first, even flirting with the notion that they were gods. Not only did the Spanish have superior technology (guns and steel), they unwittingly brought diseases which decimated the local native populations. It didn't help that the Aztecs fought to capture while the Spanish fought to kill. These technological and cultural difference favored the invader. I can foresee an alien invasion forces advantages being many-fold greater than those of the Conquistadors. Hell, less than 100 mounted Spanish fighters crippled the entire Incan empire of several million!

Invading aliens could also play human nation states or religious/ethnic groups against each other, much like human imperialist/colonialist powers have throughout history. The aliens show up, promise Muslims or Christians or whatever primacy over their rivals and BOOM, humans do most of the dirty work for them.

Bottom line, shows like V and Falling Skies are fun but they offer false hope. If aliens show up and want the earth for themselves, they're going to get it.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Bottom line, shows like V and Falling Skies are fun but they offer false hope. If aliens show up and want the earth for themselves, they're going to get it.

I agree with all your points but there is another factor that could come into play - the psychology and culture of the aliens. We humans have myriad foibles, cultural mores and emotional responses that from the outside looking in would surely make little rational sense. Who knows what bizarre cultural, psychological or emotional imperatives could be operating within aliens' minds. Perhaps they have a code of honour that requires them to fight their enemies face to face? Perhaps they are biologically pre-disposed to taking slaves?

I guess what I'm saying is that if you get creative you can find reasons why you'd get a conventional invasion rather than the (much easier) annihilation from afar.

[Matt Wiser]

Might as well discuss the various alien invasion movies:

Best Alien Invasion movie Ever? War of the Worlds (1953)

Best Alien Invasion movie since 1990: Tie between Independence Day (best overall since War of the Worlds) and Battle: Los Angeles. You get the big picture with the former, and the grunts on the ground in the latter.

Best Alien Invasion on the small screen: V (the original movie and the Final Battle miniseries) Forget both the 1984-5 TV series and the recent remake (since cancelled). Honorable mention to Falling Skies, which got renewed for another season.

And the worst: Skyline (avoid like it's carrying Ebola or the Plague), and Spielberg's War of the Worlds. Even Spielberg admitted that more combat between the military and the invaders should've been depicted, even if it was losing battles.

[Legbreaker]

I quite liked District 9 even though it's not strictly an invasion. Mind you, in three years humankind better watch the hell out!

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Targan

I agree with all your points but there is another factor that could come into play - the psychology and culture of the aliens. We humans have myriad foibles, cultural mores and emotional responses that from the outside looking in would surely make little rational sense. Who knows what bizarre cultural, psychological or emotional imperatives could be operating within aliens' minds. Perhaps they have a code of honour that requires them to fight their enemies face to face? Perhaps they are biologically pre-disposed to taking slaves?

I guess what I'm saying is that if you get creative you can find reasons why you'd get a conventional invasion rather than the (much easier) anihalation from afar.

That's certainly a possibility. It's definitely a creative way to give humanity a fighting chance.

I'm assuming that the aliens have done some homework and have at least been monitoring our transmissions for some time. They would most likely have some intel on us before coming in hot. That being the case, they should know enough not to make any silly mistakes. If they are capable of mounting an inter-solar system invasion, they've probably done something similar before, if perhaps on a smaller scale. Either way, they're going to be ready for most contingencies and employing far superior technology. Our chances, in such a scenario, would be very, very slim.

That said, perhaps we're looking at this backwards. Perhaps it's humanity that will be conquering alien worlds in a few hundred years. I know that a lot of folks- Gene Rodenberry being a prominent example- believe that we will have evolved beyond our pentiant for violent conquest and imperial/colonial ambitions, but I'm not quite as hopeful as that. If any species is capable of proliferating throughout the galaxy and using force to subdue and/or subjugate opposition, it's Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

Since I've been such a downer in this thread, I'll leave you all with the following, somewhat hopeful (depending on your POV) quote from scientist William Harrison:

“Any civilization bent on intensive colonization of other worlds would be driven by an expansive territorial impulse. But such and aggressive nature would be unstable in combination with the immense technical powers required for interstellar travel. Such a civilization would self-destruct long before it could reach the stars.”

Harrison's is one theory put forth to address the Fermi Paradox which posits the question, "If there are so many worlds out there inhabited by intelligent beings, why haven't we been contacted by them yet?"

[manunancy]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Bottom line, shows like V and Falling Skies are fun but they offer false hope. If aliens show up and want the earth for themselves, they're going to get it.

That's why I though about using the alien equivalent of a somali warlord and his bunch of khat-nibbling, rusty AK-wielding goons. They're here for the loot (no obliteration strike but ground attack), are very poorly trained and their equipment is a far cry from state of the art...

Note that using a minor sect of fanatics going to convert the heaten at gunpoint, Taliban-style, would make a good scenario too. You can't convert the dead and these guys too are porly trained and equiped.

[Legbreaker]

Perhaps the aliens are fleeing some unknown calamity which rendered their homeworld uninhabitable and the shipload or three in the fleet is all that's left of the entire race? Perhaps they invade simply out of desperation for a habitable planet and their resources are almost expended?

This could explain why they're not busily mining asteroids and conquering other planets - they are travelling in little more than high tech lifeboats to the nearest/only planetary body in range. Could also explain why they make stupid tactical and strategic mistakes - they're predominately civilians and armed with little more than what passes for shotguns and hunting rifles.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Originally Posted by Raellus

That's certainly a possibility. It's definitely a creative way to give humanity a fighting chance.

I'm assuming that the aliens have done some homework and have at least been monitoring our transmissions for some time. They would most likely have some intel on us before coming in hot. That being the case, they should know enough not to make any silly mistakes. If they are capable of mounting an inter-solar system invasion, they've probably done something similar before, if perhaps on a smaller scale. Either way, they're going to be ready for most contingencies and employing far superior technology. Our chances, in such a scenario, would be very, very slim.

That said, perhaps we're looking at this backwards. Perhaps it's humanity that will be conquering alien worlds in a few hundred years. I know that a lot of folks- Gene Rodenberry being a prominent example- believe that we will have evolved beyond our pentiant for violent conquest and imperial/colonial ambitions, but I'm not quite as hopeful as that. If any species is capable of proliferating throughout the galaxy and using force to subdue and/or subjugate opposition, it's Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

Since I've been such a downer in this thread, I'll leave you all with the following, somewhat hopeful (depending on your POV) quote from scientist William Harrison:

“Any civilization bent on intensive colonization of other worlds would be driven by an expansive territorial impulse. But such and aggressive nature would be unstable in combination with the immense technical powers required for interstellar travel. Such a civilization would self-destruct long before it could reach the stars.”

Harrison's is one theory put forth to address the Fermi Paradox which posits the question, "If there are so many worlds out there inhabited by intelligent beings, why haven't we been contacted by them yet?"

They are probably sitting on their planet wondering the same thing.

[atiff]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Perhaps the aliens are fleeing some unknown calamity which rendered their homeworld uninhabitable and the shipload or three in the fleet is all that's left of the entire race? Perhaps they invade simply out of desperation for a habitable planet and their resources are almost expended?

This could explain why they're not busily mining asteroids and conquering other planets - they are traveling in little more than high tech lifeboats to the nearest/only planetary body in range. Could also explain why they make stupid tactical and strategic mistakes - they're predominately civilians and armed with little more than what passes for shotguns and hunting rifles.

Now there is a twist - humanity fighting off Battlestar Galactica

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by atiff

Now there is a twist - humanity fighting off Battlestar Galactica

There is also the idea of Stargate, SG1. Humanity fighting off a symbiotic race that uses humans as life support systems. Although the biology is rather mind boggling that we and the sybiote could both use O2, water, and the different terran amino acids.

Who do you shoot?

Granted, if they are marching in with their armor and staff weapons, backed up by (seemingly) few FTL mother ships, then, yeah, the target is obvious...

But what if they wise up?? Take off the armor. Pick up Uzi's or MAC-10;s and start blazing away. The symbiote gives the warrior greater strength, agilty and survivability on the battlefield.

It seems to me that if you get a head shot, the warrior is dead anyway. BTW, note to terran warriors. Take no prisoners or try to treat enemy wounded. THe symbiote might just jump into you!!!

My $0.02

Mike

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by atiff

Now there is a twist - humanity fighting off Battlestar Galactica

You know, I wasn't even thinking about that when I wrote it - District 9 was in the back of my mind at the time.

[Panther Al]

Been watching this for a while, and I have to admit the best point I ever read about an 'Alien Invasion' was given by John Ringo: "Once a species "owns" the gravity well, there isn't much you can do about it." Its a good valid point, if anyone has the tech to get here, well... thats it. And it applies as much to the here and now, as it would in any sort of situation, be it a 1000 years ago or a 1000 years from now.

Despite a few certain other books he has written, Ringo's Posleen series is actually a pretty good riff on it, since he figured if there was any hope for humanity, there would have to be handicaps to the bad guys, and that we would have to have some sort of help from the 'good guys'. And it would all have to be logically consistent.


Just ignore the cover art: Baen books seems to miss (and miss big) more than hit when it comes to that sort of thing.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by atiff

Now there is a twist - humanity fighting off Battlestar Galactica

*laughs*

Now that would be interesting: I can't even start to imagine the chaos that would ensue if next week the fleet showed up in orbit around us.

One: Aliens!
Two: Wait.. they are humans....
Three: Wait, WTF?!? They are humans!
Four: And who is gonna talk to them and get them to come down on their country?
Five: Wait: Not all of you are humans, but you all look and physically are humans? WTF?!?
And Six: And you guys think Nukes are everyday weapons?!?