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  #31  
Old 09-08-2011, 10:46 PM
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Your answer is earlier in the thread, post #8:
Ah, thanks for that passed it over.
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  #32  
Old 09-08-2011, 10:49 PM
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Watch these Australians guys. They may be planning something.
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  #33  
Old 09-09-2011, 01:10 AM
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I've actually been working on and off on a sourcebook kind of write up for Alaska in T2K since moving up here, but still has a ways to go, and involves some departures from the canon troop dispositions and unit identities (mostly reflagging the 1st and 2nd Arctic Recon Brigades, AK ARNG).

Staying within the sort of improbable (to me, anyway) narrative of the invasion, I basically have the Soviets headquartered in the southern end of Anchorage, away from the nuke strike, with a strong garrison in the Mat-Su Valley (the prime agricultural area in the state) and a blocking force south of Anchorage part of the war to Whittier.

The Soviet strength is the agricultural zone they're sitting in, but they're very bad off for fuel and have pretty negligible sealift left after the attempt to go after Juneau and the SE Alaska panhandle.

The US forces are split -- during the battle for Anchorage, a portion of the US force was cut off and withdrew south out of the city into the Kenai Peninsula, while the bulk of X Corps are at Wainwright and Greely. The US is very tight on food, but pretty wealthy on fuel, with the refinery at North Pole running at fractional output and oil still coming down the pipeline in enough quantity that they're able to keep some aircraft flying and vehicles running on gas and diesel. They've also got a garrison holding the only functioning coal mine in the state, and one of the two National Guard brigades strung out on garrison duty patrolling the pipeline from Barrow to Fairbanks. Even with the airpower, though, they lack the combat power to push the Soviets out of south-central Alaska, and so it's pretty much a stand off circa 2000.

A Canadian brigade group is mostly on their side of the border with blocking forces keeping the Soviet division at Whitehorse cut off, and an understrength battalion at Tok keeping lines of communication open to X Corps.

Elsewhere in the state, there's a very broad no mans land between the Soviet and American zones. Pretty much any settlements that were on the road net have been abandoned by 2000 after being fought over a time or two since the invasion. Neither marauder bands nor surviving settlements near the road net are sizable.

Further out in the Bush, some communities are more or less intact, some have collapsed due to the loss of imports, disease, etc.

Kodiak was hit hard by .sov airstrikes and then largely ignored. There's a mostly USCG garrison there that's sided with CivGov, though that's pretty nominal, as the only regular contact they have with outsiders are Japanese merchantmen.

Whittier (the other port mentioned in previous post) is a fortified free community that has opted out of the war, and no has a small defense force made up of various deserters from both sides.

Valdez, terminal end of the pipeline, was severely during the Soviet drive towards Juneau, but survives as an isolated but nominally pro-MilGov community with a defense force consisting mostly of US stragglers and a couple hundred East German former POWs who are the last survivors of a group of about 2000 who escaped from a Soviet camp in Siberia, marched out to the sea, and then hijacked a Soviet merchantman. Their attempt to escape to allied America was semi-successful, with them winding up in Valdez after finding out Anchorage was in Soviet hands.

Juneau and the southeastern portion of the state is the worst hit part of the state in some ways -- by the time the Soviet offensive made it down into that area, it was faltering badly and the troops were more involved in looting survival essentials than fighting. A Typhoid epidemic didn't help things, and the area is very depopulated, with a few of the more isolated fishing communities hanging on, as well as some small scale pirates and maritime marauders. The only major population center is Haines, where another small Canadian force is holding the port and end of the Haines Highway, and have attracted a large refugee population.

The other big player on the scene are the Japanese, who have occupied the Cook Inlet oil and gas fields near Anchorage for their own domestic use. They've got a battalion of Japanese airborne troops, plus a force of American mercenaries recruited out of Korea. The Soviets don't have the assets to challenge their occupation, and the Japanese provide them some limited amounts of fuel to keep them happy. The Japanese are also the main thing keeping many of the more isolated communities on the coast elsewhere in the state up and running in some semblance of modernity, trading some of the limited production of manufactured goods still coming out of Japan for fish and marine mammal foodstuffs.
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  #34  
Old 09-09-2011, 02:47 AM
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Nice summary HorseSoldier. I like your take on the state of things in Alaska.
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  #35  
Old 09-09-2011, 07:30 PM
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Nice write up. Favors a southern sweep.

I favor the Northern sweep myself.

Soviets seize Nome. Making is a logistical bridge head.

Nome has an airfield currently. That airfield is large enough for an AN-12 Cub.

There is a small port. Soviet Merchant Vessels are also Soviet Merchant Marine vessels equipped with their own cranes that can move Soviet MBTs from Hold to Dock.
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  #36  
Old 09-09-2011, 07:37 PM
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I feel a Northern Sweep sets up for a Soviet invasion of Alaska to a effect multiple Strategic purposes.

1) Opens a second Front drawing American support away from NATO operations in Europe.

2) Soviet Aviation assets can conduct operations against continental US and Canadian assets with half the transit time and greater payload.

3) Destruction or occupation of DEW line assets. Blinding US and Canadian Commands to operations over the North Pole Chukchi, Siberian, and the North sea.

4) Deny US forces and US domestic production of a quarter to one third of domestic oil production.

5) Morale and PR boost back home.
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:56 PM
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Thats a Nice write up Horse.
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  #38  
Old 09-09-2011, 11:37 PM
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Horse, I like that work, too. I had some very similar thoughts about why such a large Soviet force was apparently surrounded by much smaller US formations. The relative differences between food stocks and fuel adds a nice touch to the explanation. The East Germans are a nice touch, too. Without quibbling over any particular point, I think your overall concept is a good one. Thanks for stepping up to give this some attention. I’m struggling to get a Thunder Empire piece completed, so I can’t do anything with Alaska.

I did have a couple of thoughts about the Soviet operations in the state. It appears that Eleventh Soviet Army was landed in Alaska starting in July 1997 in an effort to capture Fairbanks and Anchorage. A separate force of about six divisions (14th MRD, 41st MRD, 62nd MRD, 114th MRD, 76th TD, and 120th MRD) was landed in southeastern Alaska and British Columbia starting in August in an effort to seize Juneau, Vancouver, and the Puget Sound. I won’t talk about the second force here other than to remark on its demise.

1st & 2nd Arctic Mechanized Brigades took part in the initial invasion of Alaska in July 1997. Both brigades took part in the capture of Fairbanks. Both brigades were turned south after capturing Fairbanks. 1AMB went to Anchorage, which was captured. 2AMB was part of an assault on Juneau. Both brigades ended up in Anchorage in 1998.

1st Naval Infantry Brigade was involved in the assault on Anchorage. We know the brigade was landed somewhere along the Cook Inlet and was mauled by US forces as the Americans withdrew.

7th MRD landed in Alaska in 1997 and participated in the capture of Anchorage.

113th MRD landed in Alaska in 1997 and participated in the operation against Fairbanks. The division withdrew to Anchorage after X US Corps counterattacked in 1998.

147th MRD landed in Alaska in 1997 and participated in the operation against Fairbanks. The division withdrew to Anchorage after X US Corps counterattacked in 1998.

6th Guards Air Assault Division also has a role in the initial invasion of Alaska.

What if the assault on Fairbanks did not begin at Nome? What if Nome was simply a jumping-off point for operations elsewhere? I note that the Yukon Delta is 150 miles or so south of Nome. What if Nome were seized for whatever facilities it possesses so that materiel could be staged for movement up the Yukon? Hoverborne troops could make quick assaults on or off the river and conduct operations in places American troops might not be able to go. The arctic brigades could range ahead, capturing barges and other shipping necessary to move two MRD upriver to the confluence of the Yukon and Tanana Rivers, thence up the Tanana to Fairbanks. If this happened, then we would have an explanation for the movement of the arctic brigades south to Anchorage by road. US forces could have held on at Fort Greely until March, when a counterattack against the two Soviet divisions remaining at Fairbanks drove them out.
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Old 09-11-2011, 09:09 PM
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Every now and again I remember all the work Kato has done compiling the thread map. Here are links to a couple of past discussions on Alaska:

The Alaskan Theatre of Operations and more:
http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=178

US forces in Alaska:
http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=747

YaATW2KT: The Soviet's Aleutian Front:
http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=1180

Sorry, forgotten how to change the link so it just shows the title. Looks messy, I know, but I'm at work so I shouldn't be doing this anyway!

The second link (US forces in Alaska) should be of particular interest as it contains some of the modified ORBATS developed by the DC Working Group.
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Old 09-11-2011, 09:13 PM
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...I'm at work so I shouldn't be doing this anyway!
But isn't being pretty much the sole active mod a job in and of itself deserving of respect and gratitude if not actual cash payment?
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  #41  
Old 09-12-2011, 11:49 AM
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Ok

Planning and Logistics aside what would be the need for a soviet invasion?

Keep troops in North States tried up so they can't be used in Mexico?

Oil? they could have just nuked it?

reclaim terrority?

Another point (Planning and Logistics)

If the soviets are going to wage war in Alaska, where are they going to land troops?

Resupply, how is it going to done, over sea by air?

Lines of Communcations? They are seperated by water from there major supply bases (Remember D-Day eventhing comes by boat or aircraft) and then how do you move stuff around trucks, long line of communcations (remember OIF when follow on forces were enaged by irrrgular formations)

Think about it the troops and other forces in Alaska know the ground, and Soviets don't, attacking troops who are ready for them and know the ground, you need a 3 to 1 ratio for an attack.

How much trouble do you think you can create if a forgien power invaded your back yard?
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  #42  
Old 09-12-2011, 12:36 PM
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Historically, one of the goals of the USSR was to break NATO’s solidarity. The Kremlin was delighted when de Gaulle broke with NATO. One of the chief Soviet goals was to separate the US from Europe. Looking back, we may think such a notion silly. However, one of the unspoken rules of the nuclear balance of power was that the US was going to have to be willing to put Chicago on the line to defend Munich from nuclear attack. Make the Americans think Munich wasn’t worth the price, and you’ve just driven a wedge between the US and Europe.

In the Twilight War, half of NATO dropped out in 1996. Presumably, France dropped out of the Atlantic Alliance, while Belgium, Italy, Greece, Spain, and Portugal bailed on NATO. I’ve postulated that Soviet military action in February 1997 was designed to cause the Netherlands and Denmark to drop out. I propose that an attack against the Pacific Northwest would be intended to achieve a similar purpose.

Leg (I think) points out the long lead time involved in planning and assembling the men and materiel. Thus it is probably mere chance that has the Soviets land in Alaska and British Columbia after the tactical nuclear exchange begins but before the strategic exchange heats up. However, I’m sure the Soviets would have seen this as being to their advantage. With Red forces in Alaska and British Columbia and nukes flying the Europe and Asia, Canada might have been motivated to seek a separate peace. At the very least, the Canadians might have been motivated to redeploy their troops from Europe to the Pacific Northwest. By the same token, the US might have found herself unwilling to continue to support operations in Europe, the Middle East, and Korea until the situation in North America was resolved. Imagine the explosive reaction of American public opinion resulting from the presence of Soviet troops on American soil. From the Soviet standpoint, the loss of a dozen mostly second-rate divisions in the Pacific Northwest might easily be justified by more favorable results in Europe, the Gulf, or Korea as American logistical support and reinforcements flow to Alaska instead of overseas.
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  #43  
Old 09-12-2011, 07:58 PM
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RCAF 777 I am going to use your post as my reply as it nicely prompts the ideas that have been rattling around my head like dice in a cup. No offense just segued nicely. Thanks.
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Ok
Planning and Logistics aside what would be the need for a soviet invasion?
Keep troops in North States tried up so they can't be used in Mexico?
Oil? they could have just nuked it?
reclaim terrority?
Soviets were pioneers in Ice Breaker ships by necessity. Soviet Ice breaker squadrons could safely conduct Ivan Rogov class Landing ships to points along the Alaskan coast.

OIL. The Trans caucus ans Middle East oil fields are going to be to hotly contested to rely on, and taking Alaska secures an exploitable resource while damaging Allied supply.
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Another point (Planning and Logistics)
If the soviets are going to wage war in Alaska, where are they going to land troops?
Resupply, how is it going to done, over sea by air?
Nome, as like canon. Makes a centrally located Air head for tactical and strategic air operations. Supplied from Petropavlovsk and Vladivostok.
Prudhoe bay. Cuts off North America from up to one third of its supply crude oil. Soviet Icebreakers can convoy in Ivan Rogov class LSTs with material and troops year around, and bring guided missile ships for cover. While still being actively protected be the Soviet far eastern frontal aviation assets.
From Prudhoe bay the Soviet units can launch missions to seize the DEW line stations, to destroy or seize for their own purposes.
From Prudhoe Bay the Soviet units being better equipped to operate in the Arctic can drive south on the North Slope Haul Road and the repair road that parallels the Trans-Alaska Pipeline. Soviet Engineer assets seizing the Pumping stations, and power plants along the way. Finally running into Fairbanks with an Assault on Ft. Wainwright and Eielson AFB.

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Lines of Communcations? They are seperated by water from there major supply bases (Remember D-Day eventhing comes by boat or aircraft) and then how do you move stuff around trucks, long line of communcations (remember OIF when follow on forces were enaged by irrrgular formations)
Largely, so is Alaska. Albeit there is the ALCan Highway, most every thing moved into and out of Alaska is by ship. The Lines of Communications (LOC) for the Soviets will be shorter than for Americans and Canadians. The Soviet Navy can operate the full 12 months in the Arctic and Bering Seas due to the Nuclear powered Ice breaker fleet, and Ice breaker cargo ships. The Soviets can dominate the Bering sea with submarines and ASW warfare vessels supported by Surface warfare vessels and landbased Front Aviation assets. From those Landing ships the Pomorik class and other classes of hover craft can move supplies inland. Arctic tundra is just and good as water to move over for these machines. Any American forces in the area could be rapidly flanked and decimated by units supported by these machines in winter or summer.
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Think about it the troops and other forces in Alaska know the ground, and Soviets don't, attacking troops who are ready for them and know the ground, you need a 3 to 1 ratio for an attack.
How much trouble do you think you can create if a forgien power invaded your back yard?
Soviets are all about meticulous preparation. While there is a higher preponderance of outdoors men in all of Alaska, the overall population is low, and would not be concentrated enough to be more than a nuisance to a Soviet Division. Soviets certainly believe in a scorched earth policy to deny havens to Partisans, they know Partisan operations very well.

Last edited by ArmySGT.; 09-12-2011 at 08:13 PM.
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  #44  
Old 09-12-2011, 08:28 PM
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  #45  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:58 AM
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The Canadian would better supplied locally than you think the Canadian Forces durring the cold always planed for Soviet Invasion of the North, the Speical Service Force was alsways intended to fight in Northern Canada should the Soviet attack, to this end Forward Operating Locations were built, the DEW sites were supplied and other shelters were placed in the North that would allow the Canadian and US Troops to fight
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  #46  
Old 09-13-2011, 01:15 PM
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Way OT:

Where's the plate boundary between North America and Asia? Looking at the images posted by ArmySGT, I'm reminded that North America and Asia are more solidly connected than North America and South America. Where is the plate boundary? North America and Asia are moving together, which implies that somewhere a mountain range is going up. Where is that?
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Old 09-13-2011, 02:20 PM
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Old 09-13-2011, 02:21 PM
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Sorry, didnt realise how big the was!
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  #49  
Old 09-13-2011, 08:27 PM
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Nome simply doesn't provide much an invader could need except a chance to say "we took something". I remain of the opinion that GDW didn't truly grasp the enormity of the region, its austerity, and the difficulty of trying to do anything major with the logistical limitations the terrain, minimal road net, and distances involved impose. As depicted the Soviets are basically setting themselves up to refight the Winter War in the forests of Finland, only this time with the notional Finns backed up by F-15s, F-16s, and F-18s.
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:41 PM
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I remain of the opinion that GDW didn't truly grasp the enormity of the region, its austerity, and the difficulty of trying to do anything major with the logistical limitations the terrain, minimal road net, and distances involved impose.
No doubt that is correct, however what's to say the radically overstretched Soviet intelligence system wasn't in the same boat? With war being fought on almost all fronts, the best recce they would have been able to do may have been simply looking at maps and old aerial photos from before the war - basically the same sort of information GDW had access to when they were writing the game.
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Old 09-13-2011, 09:03 PM
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Nome simply doesn't provide much an invader could need except a chance to say "we took something". I remain of the opinion that GDW didn't truly grasp the enormity of the region, its austerity, and the difficulty of trying to do anything major with the logistical limitations the terrain, minimal road net, and distances involved impose. As depicted the Soviets are basically setting themselves up to refight the Winter War in the forests of Finland, only this time with the notional Finns backed up by F-15s, F-16s, and F-18s.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:43 PM
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Nome simply doesn't provide much an invader could need except a chance to say "we took something".
Perhaps that was the whole point. I don't think anybody here believes that the Soviets were trying to conquer the US by way of Alaska, just as no one believes Mexico was trying to conquer the US by invading in 1998. The Soviets had some other objective in mind. I've offered my interpretation, so I won't repeat it here. When the US didn't respond by pulling masses of troops out of Europe, the Middle East, or Korea, mission creep set in for the Soviets. They just kept pushing because the stop line was based on an American reaction, not a line on the map. Eventually, the invaders exhausted themselves, ran out of supplies, and ground to a halt. In the main body of Alaska, this meant withdrawing to Anchorage. Around Juneau, this meant turning coats or heading for the hinterland. In British Columbia, this meant turning warlord.

In a sense, the Soviet invasion of Alaska was a repeat of the invasion of China. The Soviets wanted a specific reaction, and when they didn't get it they were unable to prosecute the offensive to a satisfactory conclusion.

I do agree that GDW probably didn't grasp the Alaskan reality. Heck, I don't. Not really. But if any invader could grasp the realities of moving men and material across the trackless wastes of the North, it's the Soviets. True, they bungled Finland badly. Finland was a mistake of hubris, not genuine inability. Soviet troops in Siberia under Zhukov would have done much better had the Kremlin sent 200,000 of them to Finland.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:52 PM
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What Web said....

Here in Australia we have some seriously VAST distances between even marks on a map let alone anything of real note on the ground. Throw in the odd bit of rough terrain such as the Great Dividing Range which runs down the entire eastern coast of the country, or the HUGE deserts and there's some significant challenges to moving around. Even so, I still have difficulties grasping the Alaska situation (possibly due to maps around the poles being so out of whack normally).

The T2K situation can in no way be construed as a fully fledge invasion of North America. Given it was a strategic move with possibly political aims, it begins to make some sort of sense. Tactically it's ludicious.
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:21 PM
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Nome simply doesn't provide much an invader could need except a chance to say "we took something".
Provides an Airhead with a supporting harbor and facilities. In the Bering sea which the US Navy woul d find difficult to contest only during the brief summer months. The Shallow crossing points between the Aleautian Islands multiply the effectiveness of a Soviet ASW effort. Combined with some surface warfare vessels and land based aircraft the Soviets can own the Bering Sea and all of the west and north coasts of Alaska.
Nome is centered on the west coast of Alaska with its Soviet counterpart Anadyr on the opposite shore. Roads depart north and south from Nome that while closed to civilians in winter now, the Soviets could open and run in all but the harshest storm. There are additional air fields north and south to move more assets over. The Airspace could be dominated by the Soviets along the west coast, north slope, most of the Aleutians by airbases and strips occupied on Alaskan soil.
I agree it not positioned best for a ground campaign but, once one starts Airborne and Logistical drops can go from there.











Quote:
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I remain of the opinion that GDW didn't truly grasp the enormity of the region, its austerity, and the difficulty of trying to do anything major with the logistical limitations the terrain, minimal road net, and distances involved impose.
Which is all as you have stated, however it is 10% or 20% of the size of the Soviet Arctic. Issues the Soviets will have decades of practical and tested knowledge of dealing with.
Fighting in the Arctic will play right into the Soviets strengths. It will be just like home.
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As depicted the Soviets are basically setting themselves up to refight the Winter War in the forests of Finland, only this time with the notional Finns backed up by F-15s, F-16s, and F-18s.
Not a fair comparison of the Soviets in the 1930s versus 2000. That’s like comparing Pershing’s punitive raid into Mexico to the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Karelia forced the Soviets into a narrow frontage that is advantageous to the defender. The Red Army was still undergoing fundamental changes (voting on everything in ranks). Even the equipment was primitive by the standards of the time.

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Old 09-14-2011, 10:29 PM
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Could the Soviets pull off a succesfull invasion of Alaska? Well one way of looking at it would be to see what the US has in Alaska.

According to T2K the US has only three units in Alaska or across the Canadian border.

10th Infantry Division (Mountain)
1st Infantry Brigade (Arctic Recon)
2nd Infantry Brigade (Arctic Recon)

In real life other US forces where also in Alaska around or very near the time of the Twilight War accoring to what I could find.

US Army

6th Light Infantry Division (Fort Richardson)
  • 1st Brigade (Fort Richardson)
  • 2nd Brigade (Fort Wainwright)
  • 6th Combat Aviation Brigade (Fort Wainwright)

Alaska Army National Guard

207th Infantry Group (Anchorage)
  • 1-297th Infantry Battalion (Nome)
  • 2-297th Infantry Battalion (Bethel)
  • 3-297th Infantry Battalion (Kotzebue)
  • 4-297th Infantry Battalion (Juneau)
  • 5-297th Infantry Battalion (Anchorage)
  • 1-207th Aviation Battalion ()
49th Missile Defence Battalion (Fort Greely)

Alaska State Defence Force

49th Readiness Brigade (Fort Richardson)

US Air Force

343rd Combined Wing (Eielson AFB)
  • 18th TFS (A-10)
  • 25th TASS (A-10)
  • 11th TASS (A-10)
21st Tactical Fighter Wing (Elmendorf AFB)
  • 43rd TFS (F-15A)
  • 54th TFS (F-15A)
962nd AWACs: (Elmendorf AFB)
168th Air Refuelling Wing: Alaska ANG (Eielson AFB)
176th Wing: Alaska ANG (Elmendorf AFB)
210th Rescue Squadron: Alaska ANG (Kullis ANGB)

Military Bases in Alaska
Base Support Unit Kodiak: US Coast Guard
Big Mountain Air Force Station (1x 1,280m gravel): USAF
Casco Cove Coast Guard Station (1x 1,828m asphalt) Attu Island: US Coast Guard
Clear Air Force Station, Anderson: USAF
Fort Richardson (1x 1,273m asphalt), Anchorage: US Army
Fort Greely and Allen Army Airfield (1x 2,743m asphalt, 1x 1,864m asphalt, 1x 1,426m asphalt): US Army
Fort Wainwright and Ladd Army Airfield (1x 2,614m asphalt), Fairbanks: US Army
Eareckson Air Station (1x 3,048m asphalt/grooved), Shemya Island: USAF
Eielson Air Force Base (1x 4,429m concrete), Moose Creek: USAF
Elmendorf Air Base (1x 3,048m asphalt, 1x 2,288m asphalt), Anchorage: USAF
Kullis Air National Guard Base, Anchorage: Alaska National Guard
Naval Air Station Adak (1x 2,374m asphalt, 1x 2,318m asphalt), Adak Island: US Navy
Port Clarence Coast Guard Station (1x 1,372m asphalt): US Coast Guard

The navy has little or no presence in Alaska with the Coast Guard taking over much of its marine responsibility. The US Army and Alaskan forces are on the light side with no heavy armour, although the 6th Combat Aviation Brigade could give them some mobility and some anti-armour capability. Two USAF F-15 squadrons with AWACs are however a potent air defence capability, and three A-10 squadrons are very significant punch for such a remote location unless the US was actually expecting a Soviet invasion all along.

DEW Line and North Warning System Sites (NWS) in Alaska, NWT, Yukon
By the time of the Twilight War the DEW line had been decommissioned and replaced by the NWS. However many NWS stations were built on or near former DEW line stations.
Alaska
Barter Island, Flaxman Island, Lonely, Oliktok Point, Point Barrow, Wainwright
Northwest Territories
Bernard Harbour, Bray Island, Breevort Island, Broughton Island, Cambridge Bay, Cape Dyer, Cape Hooper, Cape McLoughlin, Cape Mercy, Cape Parry, Croker River, Dewar Lakes, Edinburgh Island, Gladman Point, Gloa Haven, Hall Beach, Harding River, Hat Island, Horton River, Jenny Lind Island, Keats Point, Lady Franklin Point, Lailor River, Liverpool Bay, Loks Island, Longstaff Bluff, Nicholson Peninsula, Pelly Bay, Resolution Island, Rowley Island, Shepherd Bay, Simson Lake, Storm Hills, Sturt Point, Tuktoyaktuk
Yukon
Komakuk Beach, Shingle Point, Stokes Point


To get a bridge head in Alaska the Soviets are going to have to take control of some of Alaska's air and sea ports to both land troops and equipment and keep them supplied.

Major seaport of Alaska
Port of Anchorage (Five docking berths at full seaway depth), Nome (Two docking berths at full seaway depth), Port Valdez (Oil terminal), Ketchikan (Ferry port), Juneau (Ferry port), Barrow, Kivilina, Nikiski, Prudhoe Bay. Either Anchorage or Nome have to be taken.

Major civilian airports of Alaska
Cold Bay Airport (1x 3,174m asphalt, 1x 1,291m asphalt) Aleutian Islands
Edward G. Pitka Sr. Airport (1x 2,209m asphalt/concrete, 1x 849m gravel) Galena
Fairbanks International Airport (1x 3,597m asphalt, 1x 1,981m asphalt, 1x 884m gravel, 1x 1,646m water) Fairbanks
Juneau International Airport (1x 2,578m asphalt, 1x 1,494m water) Juneau
Ted Stevens Anchorage international Airport (1x 3,531m asphalt, 1x 3,322m asphalt, 1x 3,231m asphalt) Anchorage

Other airports with asphalt and or concrete runways
Aniak (1x 1,829m asphalt), Annette Island (2,284m asphalt), Barrow (1x 1,981m asphalt), Bethel (1x 1,951m asphalt, 1x 567m gravel), Clear (1x 1,219m asphalt), Deadhorse (1x 1,981m asphalt), Gambell (1x 1,372m asphalt/concrete), Gulkana (1x 1,524m asphalt), Gustavus (1x2,049m asphalt, 1x 959m asphalt), Haines (1x 1,219m asphalt), Hoonah (1x 913m asphalt), Kake (1x 1,219m asphalt), Kenai (1x 2,309m asphalt, 1x 610m gravel), Ketchikan (1x 2,286m asphalt), King Salmon (1x 2,591m asphalt, 1,225m asphalt), Kotzbue (1x 1,798m asphalt, 1x 1,181m gravel),McGrath (1x 1,809m asphalt, 1x 524m asphalt), Nenana (1x 1,402m asphalt), Nome (1x 1,829m asphalt, 1x 1,700m asphalt), Palmer (1x 1,832m asphalt, 1x 1,102m asphalt, 1x 475m gravel), Petersburg (1x 1,829m asphalt), Point Hope (1x 1,219m asphalt), Red Dog Mine (1x 1,924m asphalt), Sitka (1x 1,981m asphalt), Skagway (1x 1,082m asphalt), Talkeetna (1x 1,067m asphalt), Tanacross (1x 1,554m asphalt, 1x 1,524m asphalt, Tok Junction (1x 765m asphalt), Unalakleet (1x 1,798m asphalt, 1x 579m asphalt), Wrangell (1x 1828m asphalt), Valdez (1x 1,981m asphalt), Yakutat (1x 2,261m asphalt, 1x 1,974m concrete)

Other airports
Akhiot (Kodiak Island), Akiak, Allakaket, Anvik, Arctic Village, Atqasuk, Bear Creek, Beluga, Big Lake Airport, Boswell Bay, Cape Sarichef (Aleutian Islands), Chevak, Chisana, Cordova, Council, Crooked Creek, Five Mile, Girdwood, Goose Bay, Granite Mountain, Grayling, Holy Cross, Hooper Bay, Icy Bay, Japonski Island, Kalskag, Karluk, Kasigluk, Kiana, King Cove, Kivalina, Kobuk, Koyukuk, Kwigillingok, Lake Hood, Larsen Bay, Manley Hot Springs, Manokotak, McCarthy, Minto, Nanwalek, Noorvik, Northway, Nyac, Old Harbour (Kodiak Island), Ouzinkie, Port Heiden, Russian Mission, Seldovia, Shaktoolik, Sheldon Point, Shungnak, Sitka, St. Michael, Stebbins, Ugnu-Kuparuk, Wales.

Chico did a good job at showing what the Soviet could throw at Alaska.

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=747
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  #56  
Old 09-14-2011, 10:48 PM
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I think the 6th Light Infantry Division was sent to Germany in T2K but some of its component units may still be in Alaska.
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:02 PM
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So, many people here can't understand why the Soviets invaded Alaska....
Why would the American commanders think any differently and position any serious numbers of troops in the region?

The Soviets were well known to be heavily engaged on multiple fronts, and generally loosing on all of them in the first half of 1997. All available manpower was NEEDED to shore up those fronts.

The US (and Canadians) were engaged on multiple fronts, and still struggling to get all their units into play. Their focus was squarely on trouncing the Soviets as quickly as they possibly could.

It makes absolutely no sense at all for the US and Canadians to think a Soviet invasion was possible, let alone would be carried out, so therefore, there's no justification whatsoever for boosting the defending units in the Alaskan region.

Once the invasion actually occurred, nukes were being used all over the world, and especially in Europe, NATO was being pushed back under some very serious and almost overwhelming pressure. Every available unit was needed to stem the flow. Meanwhile in Alaska, the terrain may have been counted on to assist the few NATO units to hold back the Soviets. The resources simply were not available to do anything more than that, as to reduce troop levels elsewhere could have resulted in a complete collapse of that front.

Alaska is a sideshow, and a region which obviously had to be sacrificed by the US to avoid crushing defeat in more important theatres.
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webstral View Post
Perhaps that was the whole point. I don't think anybody here believes that the Soviets were trying to conquer the US by way of Alaska, just as no one believes Mexico was trying to conquer the US by invading in 1998. The Soviets had some other objective in mind. I've offered my interpretation, so I won't repeat it here. When the US didn't respond by pulling masses of troops out of Europe, the Middle East, or Korea, mission creep set in for the Soviets. They just kept pushing because the stop line was based on an American reaction, not a line on the map. Eventually, the invaders exhausted themselves, ran out of supplies, and ground to a halt. In the main body of Alaska, this meant withdrawing to Anchorage. Around Juneau, this meant turning coats or heading for the hinterland. In British Columbia, this meant turning warlord.
This rationale makes the most sense to me. Soviet boots on American soil is a propaganda victory, if nothing more. If it could also divert American strength from the European theater, it's a double win. If American territory in Alaska could also be used as a bargaining chip in future armistice/peace negotiations, it's a triple win. It's a gamble, but someone in the Soviet leadership must have reckoned that the rewards were worth the risks (losing the units involved, weakening more critical fronts, the embarrasment of failure.) Audacity has won wars.

I'm not looking at the timeline, but does the Soviet invasion of Alaska precede, follow, or correspond with the NATO drive into Soviet territory? Perhaps the timing should be considered in the strategic picture.
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  #59  
Old 09-15-2011, 01:01 AM
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The invasion occurs just prior to the Soviet counterattack and the commencement of the use of nukes.
My guess is the Soviets had been planning to use nukes for some time and in an effort to maximise the disruption and chaos their opponents would experience, the insertion of Soviet troops into Alaska had to have been part of the overall strategic plan.

Nato are faced with the sudden nuking of their troops in the field, decimating their victorious (to date) armies and at the same time, the US are hit with an invasion at home. If you were the American leadership at this time, you'd be faced with some awful choices to make in very short order - do you react strongly in Alaska and remove the chance of US units in Europe receiving reinforcements and being wiped out, or do you give up the fight in more than a token manner in Alaska? I say the choice is fairly easy given that it's not JUST US troops on the line in Europe, but rather the fate of the entire Nato forces. You remove even part of the available military strength desperately retreating across Poland, and you end up with a rout which only stops at the French border (and perhaps not even then).

This isn't to say the US are THE main strength of Nato though - you take out nearly any of the other countries such as Britain and you've got the same result. What would happen though is those units barely able to escape the Soviet onslaught covered by "fresh" reinforcing units would instead have been overrun and destroyed.
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:20 AM
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For the purposes of planning and executing an operation like invading Alaska from Siberia, the initiation of nuclear warfare and the invasion of Alaska are pretty much simultaneous. According to the Soviet Vehicle Guide [v1]the first Soviet units to land in Alaska land in July. The first use of nukes occurs on July 9, I believe. Leg may well be right in that the Soviets land in the first week of July. For all intents and purposes, though, the two events are concurrent. If the Soviets started planning and preparing for the invasion of Alaska before the nuclear balloon went up, so to speak, then we have to ask ourselves what the Soviets hoped to accomplish in a conventional war in Alaska.

It would take some nerve on the part of the President and the Joint Chiefs to ignore bellowing from Congress about throwing the Red menace off American soil. However, 1997 isn't an election year. Even the House of Reps would have another year of war before having to run again. Victory in Europe would obviate any Soviet successes in Alaska.
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