USAF Europe

[Olefin]

the chance that there is no avgas at all left is not realistic - there is no way that every tank at every airport, every storage terminal, every railcar, etc.. is gone - we know France has avgas for instance - and where there is a scarce supply there is a black market - so no matter how well guarded and rationed it is some will make it to the Germans and Brits and Americans

[lordroel]

Question the 32nd Tactical Fighter Squadron operates as part of the 32d Tactical Fighter Group out of Soesterberg Air Base, the only United States Air force unit to do so, would they still be at end of the war be deployed in the Netherlands or would the squadron be operating from United States Air force bases in West Germany.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Olefin

the chance that there is no avgas at all left is not realistic - there is no way that every tank at every airport, every storage terminal, every railcar, etc.. is gone - we know France has avgas for instance - and where there is a scarce supply there is a black market - so no matter how well guarded and rationed it is some will make it to the Germans and Brits and Americans

In addition, the vast majority of US aircraft use JP-8 (I've seen TONS of this) or JP-12 (never used this newer jet fuel). This is a form of purified kerosene NOT Avgas (which is high test gasoline). Avgas requires several steps to produce a sufficiently pure and high powered gasoline. This can only be done using Light-Sweet Crude oil. This oil can only be found in the Middle East and a few wells in Romania and Nigeria. Thus, small aircraft like the Cesna, who are dependent on Avgas, would be grounded by a lack of fuel. The bulk of the world's remaining Crude is heavier silted crude more suitable for Fuel Oil or Diesel. This crude COULD be refined into Kerosene but the cost would be greater. However, Virgin Airlines proved that you can fly a large airliner on purified Biodiesel so the large transport aircraft could still be flying.
One more note about fuel. There would be plenty of JP-8 in any US Theater after 1990. The US Army began a program called "One Fuel Forward" in 1989. This program removed ALL gas powered support vehicles from service (all the Chevy and Dodge SUVs, all Jeeps, and all other gas powered equipment but the Abrams). All of the remaining Diesels were then given JP-8 jet fuel to run so that the Army was only trucking one fuel type to the front. This did set off The Law of Unintended Consequences though. This fuel had detergents in it that scrubbed "scale" from vehicles that had used the dirtier Diesel. We were going through a fuel filter about every three weeks for about six months. We would have been in BIG trouble if we had to deploy during the fuel change (which was completed in August of 1990).

[Targan]

We've had extensive discussions on Twilight War fuel stocks before, and I recall that a major problem would be that even though there would be stockpiles of various grades of gasoline and kerosene, those fuels degrade over time until they become either less effective or unusable depending on the engines they're being put through. When I'm home from work I'll search through the old threads for the specifics.

[RN7]

There is also the issue of the North Sea oil rigs. Even canon states that the British have secretly reactivated a few offshore oil rigs, and there is strong possibility that Britain has a still functional oil refinery in Teeside facing the North Sea. Small oil resources and refining capacity by pre-war standards but its very significant by Twilight War standards and is under military control.

[Olefin]

Fuel does degrade but if its properly stored and sealed it can last for years - not indefinitely of course but we are only talking a short span of years here with the war - even with the TDM and other late 1997 attacks there would have still been fuel being delivered probably until around mid spring to early summer of 1998, possibly further until the last of the electric generation facilities that were still functioning ran out of fuel or had to shut down or were taken out in the 1998 weak nuclear exchange

now if you are talking 2005, 2010 time frame thats really pushing it for storage - but 2000-2001 it should still be in very good shape if its properly stored and capped

to give an example - I had a gasoline can with five gallons of gas in it that I put a stabilizer in to keep it from getting water in it - used it this spring after two years in storage - worked like a charm

now without that stabilizer and if I had left the vent cap off - no way

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by RN7

There is also the issue of the North Sea oil rigs. Even canon states that the British have secretly reactivated a few offshore oil rigs, and there is strong possibility that Britain has a still functional oil refinery in Teeside facing the North Sea. Small oil resources and refining capacity by pre-war standards but its very significant by Twilight War standards and is under military control.

Also keep in mind that the French still have working refineries and the Russians do at Ploesti (or at least did in my timeline till we nuked it) as well

and if there is one thing that is constant in all wars its a black market - you know some Soviet or French supply sergeant for the right price will "lose to marauders" some aviation fuel for the right price

[Apache6]

RN7:

If the cannon has 2d Marine Divsision in Europe, then I'd recommend that you add 2d Marine Aircraft Wing (MAW), and group most if not all of the Marine Corps and a lot of the Navy aircraft/units into 2d MAW.

Also, I think the USAF (and I know USMC) uses a Group (Commanded by full Colonels) as the intermediate command echelon between Squadrons and Wings.

For at least the Marines, I'd add a bunch of non-standard stuff, including ultralights and what ever else they can get into the air to serve as air recon, artillery observation, casualty evacuation and light attack. See the discussion I posted on 'improvised aircraft' on the other thread regarding T2K, close air support.