T2K Today: Korea

[Eddie]

You know, in light of our past, I can't really tell if that was supposed to be humorous or if it was another jab at me.

If I put someone on the ignore list, their posts don't even show up on my screen, correct?

[Raellus]

Just your friendly neighborhood moderator popping in to remind everyone to play nice.

[Webstral]

Kato, your reference to cultural values is a timely one. While I would expect the ROK to provide a large body of troops, I wouldn't have expected the ROK to be willing to foot the entire bill for 500,000 troops to occupy the North for 3-5 years. You are suggesting perhaps they would be willing to do so due to their emotional bonds with their captured cousins. Very interesting...

Webstral

[headquarters]

Well - as kato says there are many reasons that Koreans would be motivated for a reunification ,on either side of the Bamboo Curtain.

However - a huge number of people will still be in the category of "hard core" regime supporters.Certainly enough to make any attempted intervention or stirring of the situation a messy business.

[Grimace]

Originally Posted by Eddie

In case you missed it, it was a joke.

I thought it might be, but since there were no smilies, no winks or anything else, I wasn't quite sure. Simple text tends not to convey humor without assistance. No worries from me, though.

[Eddie]

No worries. I figured the ridiculousness of capitalism curing cancer would be enough of a clue. I tend to overuse smilies or not use enough, I never seem to get it just right.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Eddie

So what you're saying is, capitalism can cure leukemia!

Ironically, it probably will be capitalism that cures leukemia, in a way -- if it's profitable enough, some corporate executive will figure out a way to do it.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Ironically, it probably will be capitalism that cures leukemia, in a way -- if it's profitable enough, some corporate executive will figure out a way to do it.

Yeah, but then we totally derail this thread with the eternal, profits from the cure vice profits from the continued treatment debate.

We should probably leave it at a bad attempt at a joke from me and let the thread get back to the North Korea vs. South Korea debate.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Eddie

If I put someone on the ignore list, their posts don't even show up on my screen, correct?

Yes go to the User CP link on the far left of the blue bar.

Then click "Edit Ignore List"

Type in the name of the person you wish to ignore and click "Okay"

you will then see "This message is hidden because XXXXXX is on your ignore list."


Some notes:
* Threads will still show updates even if the only post is someone on your ignore list.

* You are not able to put Myself or any of the Moderators on ignore.


Going back to Leukemia, certain types do have up to an 90% successful treatment rates (in advanced countries).

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Webstral

Kato, your reference to cultural values is a timely one. While I would expect the ROK to provide a large body of troops, I wouldn't have expected the ROK to be willing to foot the entire bill for 500,000 troops to occupy the North for 3-5 years. You are suggesting perhaps they would be willing to do so due to their emotional bonds with their captured cousins. Very interesting...

Webstral

From what I have seen virtually all the animosity the ROK has for the North is directed at the highest echelon. Even the North Korean line soldiers are viewed with pity by the civilian populace. However that may change once shells land in Seoul and face to face combat begins.

[HorseSoldier]

If the ROK went it alone on occupying the North after reunification it would have a much lower media profile, making it a lot easier to get the job done, if they were facing guerilla resistance.

That's if there was any continued resistance -- communism seems much more effective at producing fanatically devoted insurgents among those whose experience with it is mostly fantasy rather than those who spend time living under communist regimes. Probably because the reality sucks so hard and because, unlike religion, communism is exclusively grounded in the here and now.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by kato13

From what I have seen virtually all the animosity the ROK has for the North is directed at the highest echelon. Even the North Korean line soldiers are viewed with pity by the civilian populace. However that may change once shells land in Seoul and face to face combat begins.

this sympathy might lessen the combat efficiency of the ROK units ?

I believe that the war of 50-53 -where both sides at one point beat the other side back and took their capital ( pretty interesting in terms of war as history study ) - showed that there was plenty animosity between the regular folk.A lot was to do with the hard core groups that roamed the lines like death squads taking care of "untrustworthy" individuals on either side .The executions and atrocities commited by these did a lot to infuriate the populace against eachother both sides had their own -also propaganda was harsh on both sides.

But I certainly agree that I would pity any countryman trapped in the NK regime ,and wish for a reunification to help them out -and given the altuistic sense of duty to nation that the Koreans have accordingto kato - the sense of kinship can be a major factor in the outcome.

[Rainbow Six]

Interesting article in today's Times...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle7140609.ece

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Ironically, it probably will be capitalism that cures leukemia, in a way -- if it's profitable enough, some corporate executive will figure out a way to do it.

Actually more like Capitalism will create Wealthy people and some of them will be altruistic, and or just interested in the tax breaks that they will get. Either way Donations will go to a group that will likely fund this research.

::begin rant::
Capitalism is not evil or bad. People are Evil or bad. There are plenty of evil people in "Socialist Utopian society's". Such as "Smiling Uncle Joe" Stalin, Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler (yes he used Socialism to advance his Plan of a Utopia), Fidel Castro, Hugo Chávez, Mao Zedong, Etc... Sure are/were allot of lower class people, and very few rich in these societies.

Its easier to work against an evil capitalist then it is to work against an evil Government.

Greed in a capitalist society creates wealth. The greedy want more, so they invest to create wealth generating enterprises, and they get more money in return for a good investment. A poor investment, leads to loss.

Greed in a non capitalist society tends to just make a very few filthy rich, and very little if no regular rich or generally wealthy people. Just taking money from the rich does not create wealth. It is just forced redistribution.

In a non capitalistic society, there will be less wealthy to do this sort of thing. The governments will not do it unless they see some sort of benefit out of it either.
And no one like to have to do anything they are told they have to do. Its human nature. You will get a whole lot more cooperation with a kind word and a reward, then a threat. (most of the time anyway)

The filthy rich will always be the filthy rich. Some will die and give their wealth to their spoiled offspring, other will die and give it all to charity, and others will do a combination of those in varying degrees.

Heck one of those rich might develop some of those afflictions and be very generous donations in order to help find a cure.
::end rant::

It takes all kinds.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Originally Posted by Eddie

No worries. I figured the ridiculousness of capitalism curing cancer would be enough of a clue. I tend to overuse smilies or not use enough, I never seem to get it just right.

See my last post. Actually a capitalist based economy will more likely to be the environment were it will be found. Though that's just one mans opinion.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Originally Posted by Jason Weiser

I think what they're afraid of is the Kims nuking them or some of their other WMD being used to stave them off. China had enough trouble with SARS and Bird Flu outbreaks, what if the Norks hit Chinese troops with oh, I dunno? Weaponized Smallpox?

It would be the end of NK.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

We don't even need to be in South Korea anymore -- the ROKs are more than capable of taking care of the North Koreans by themselves. That was almost true when I was there in the late 1980s, and it's definitely true now. Heck, they have some Russian-made equipment that's way better than the North Korean's Russian equipment -- the fall of the Soviet Union's been a good thing for South Korea. The real reason we're still in the ROK is as a symbol, to let North Korea know we're willing to help the ROK. (Personally, I don't think we have enough troops available for more than a token force these days -- the era when there would have been a sudden, massive intervention in the case of an invasion by the North is over.)

Ditto, what he said.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Cpl. Kalkwarf

See my last post. Actually a capitalist based economy will more likely to be the environment were it will be found. Though that's just one mans opinion.

I don't doubt that. I never doubted that. I was being a smartass about the Xbox comment. It struck me humorous that the information Kato provided ended with a boy playing an Xbox. All that seriousness and drama to end with an Xbox.

I have nothing against capitalism. I'm from America and two of my bachelors are in business. I epitomize a capitalist. I fully understand the advances that competition spurs historically.

I will try to refrain from making smartassed remarks anymore as nine times out of ten around here they are misunderstood.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Originally Posted by Eddie

I don't doubt that. I never doubted that. I was being a smartass about the Xbox comment. It struck me humorous that the information Kato provided ended with a boy playing an Xbox. All that seriousness and drama to end with an Xbox.

I have nothing against capitalism. I'm from America and two of my bachelors are in business. I epitomize a capitalist. I fully understand the advances that competition spurs historically.

I will try to refrain from making smartassed remarks anymore as nine times out of ten around here they are misunderstood.

Ahh, LOL No problem. , I did see it out of context.

You know I just realized what this new generation should be called.

"Generation Xbox" :P

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by Webstral

If it were to go hot, the casualties would be just enormous. I have no idea what firebreaks would be drawn by Cousin Kim's regime. The destruction of a major city like Seoul and the damage to the ROK, plus the expenditure of massive treasure to fight the war, might be just the thing to send the US economy into a double dip. Naturally, Kim's people know we think this way and are using our sensitivity to things like human life and economics to turn the screws on us (ROK & allies). I really have no idea where this will lead.

Webstral

Plus, where would Mom get spare parts for her Hyundai?

Seriously, this would be a huge mess indeed. I have an interest in following the two Koreas, my father was stationed at Camp Casey in 1955/56 and my Uncle Chuck was a paratrooper for the 101st in the Korean War.

Chuck

P.S. As to car parts, there are third party vendors.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Agreed. South Korea is already an economic powerhouse. I think China would view a unified Korea as an even more dangerous economic competitor. Yeah, it would take a decade or two for the South to pull the North up to something approaching solvency, but once it does, look out! I mean, West Germany/Germany did something very similar in just over a decade or so.

And don't make the mistake of underestimating the NK military. Yeah, it's probably more bark than it is bite but we made the mistake of underestimating it once and we almost got our asses kicked as a result. Even if the NKs lost the conventional war fairly quickly, if/when it went asymetric, we could end up pacifying/stabilizing the North for a very long time. Throw in NBC weapons at some point and it could get very, very ugly before it was all over.

True, just look at the status of Hyundai and Kia cars now. Twenty years ago, they were the butt of jokes, not much better than a Yugo in most people's eyes, although I've talked to some people who said even the early 1990's models held up very well. Mom bought a new Hyundai in 2004 because it was affordable, they are an alternative to people who cannot afford the new American or Japanese cars.

Chuck

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Nowhere Man 1966

True, just look at the status of Hyundai and Kia cars now. Twenty years ago, they were the butt of jokes, not much better than a Yugo in most people's eyes, although I've talked to some people who said even the early 1990's models held up very well. Mom bought a new Hyundai in 2004 because it was affordable, they are an alternative to people who cannot afford the new American or Japanese cars.

Chuck

I've had a Kia Sedona minivan for nearly five years now, without a single problem except for a loose gas door over the gas cap. (And the stereo -- the factory stereo on a Kia sucks big ones.) It has better pullout than my previous Ford Contour Sport, even though the engines are of the same horsepower and the Sedona is a thousand pounds heavier.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I've had a Kia Sedona minivan for nearly five years now, without a single problem except for a loose gas door. (And the stereo -- the factory stereo on a Kia sucks big ones.) It has better pullout than my previous Ford Contour Sport, even though the engines are of the same horsepower and the Sedona is a thousand pounds heavier.

The Kia's transmission could be geared differently so that could be the reason for the better performance. Mom's Sonata is from 2004 and the only part needed replacement was a light bulb in a tailight so far along with tires. At work we have a Ford Ranger with a 2.3 Liter 4 cylinder, that thing is a pig, slow pickup and so on. Mom's Hyundai engine is bigger and more powerful. I drive the Chevy Colorado myself, an Isuzu I370 clone with a 5 cylinder engine. The Colorado has quick pickup, it had 242 hp vs the Ford's 141.

Chuck

[Abbott Shaull]

Father-in-Law and his sister own Hyundai Santa Fe and they have no complaint about them...

[pmulcahy11b]

Here's a little tidbit I got from a Jane's newsletter. (I don't have the money for an actual subscription, so all I get is scraps.)

"A so-called 'bubble jet' effect, rather than a direct hit, is likely to have been responsible for the sinking of South Korean warship Chon An in the Yellow Sea (West Sea) off the coast of North Korea on 26 March. The chairman of the South Korean team investigating, Yoon Duk-yong, said: "The possibility of an underwater non-contact explosion is bigger than that of an underwater contact explosion, considering the shape of the severed surfaces and conditions." "The chances of an internal explosion, fatigue fracture or collision with a reef is zero," added Yoon, raising further the suspicion of North Korean involvement."

Note that I am behind in reading these, and this is from 04 May.

[boogiedowndonovan]

this hasn't gotten much play in the media and it probably won't change much in the way of North Korea/PRC relations. But North Korean border guards recently shot and killed three Chinese civilians, smugglers actually.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...wsj_india_main

[Raellus]

More Nork weirdness:

According to the broadcasters during today's DPRK vs. Brazil soccer match, the North Korean fans that you see during their games in SA aren't actually North Koreans at all but are paid Chinese actors. It makes sense since real NKs would probably jump at the opportunity to defect.

Also, the NK coach claims to receive in-game tactical instructions from the Dear Leader via and invisible communications device. His advice apparently wasn't so great today.

You've gotta love those wacky NKs!

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Raellus

More Nork weirdness:

According to the broadcasters during today's DPRK vs. Brazil soccer match, the North Korean fans that you see during their games in SA aren't actually North Koreans at all but are paid Chinese actors. It makes sense since real NKs would probably jump at the opportunity to defect.

Also, the NK coach claims to receive in-game tactical instructions from the Dear Leader via and invisible communications device. His advice apparently wasn't so great today.

You've gotta love those wacky NKs!

It is a tragically funny story ,if it is true.
I thought NK played rather well though .

As for Dear Leaders instructions ( via NK satelite from PyongYang where he sits in his jumpsuit in a recliner swigging beer ,surrounded by pouting teenage entertainment brigade girls that massage him before the 140 inch big screen - now,what World Cup coach wouldnt benefit from that !)

I like the sobriquet that his potential successor has gotten - "Brilliant Comrade" . Makes you wonder what they call the one that drinks and whores around in Macau " Decadent comrade "? And the one that is supposedly deemed to feminine " Dodgy Comrade "?

[Abbott Shaull]

Did anyone catch the tidbit today out of North Korea..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100616/...rea_ship_sinks

Funny how they warning the UN that something they initiated when they sunk the boat could lead to nuclear war. Talk like that sounds like they are just itching for a fight, but want the UN, US, and South Korea to appear to start the fighting. Maybe that is North knows they can't win and want China to help so maybe some of the food that China sent to feed it troop can be siphon off to feed it own population behind the front lines.

[pmulcahy11b]

I think the North Koreans want the South Koreans to pretend nothing happened -- and thereby admit that they are powerless in the face of "powerful North Korean war machine."