4th ed T2K

[Olefin]

Oh I know about the alt-right guys - the issue is that those groups really dont gell together - you need a leader to bring them together - also keep in mind 1996 timeframe you dont have twitter, you have a very rudimentary internet, you dont have a lot of what is needed today that lets groups like that and the antifa coordinate any kind of nation wide event

Especially if the game keeps the breakdown of communications going that was a feature of the situation in the US - i.e. its one thing if you can coordinate and communicate - its another given after the TDM that you were lucky if you could coordinate with the next county over let alone nationwide

Now lots of groups like that sprouting up and being a handful en masse - that works and gives GM's a lot more freedom to create - i.e. its not "here we go again with the latest NA cell" - instead its more like "ok what group of wack jobs can I have the players run into this time"

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Oh I know about the alt-right guys - the issue is that those groups really dont gell together - you need a leader to bring them together - also keep in mind 1996 timeframe you dont have twitter, you have a very rudimentary internet, you dont have a lot of what is needed today that lets groups like that and the antifa coordinate any kind of nation wide event

That's a good point. Consider, however, that 20th century fascists were able to do it pre-internet. Franco in Spain managed to unite monarchists, Catholics, and various other right-wing groups in 1930s spain. Mussolini too, in Italy.

Originally Posted by Olefin

Especially if the game keeps the breakdown of communications going that was a feature of the situation in the US - i.e. its one thing if you can coordinate and communicate - its another given after the TDM that you were lucky if you could coordinate with the next county over let alone nationwide

Again, a fair point. By the same token, a breakdown in nat'l comms also makes it difficult for the gov't to effectively counter-message extremist propaganda. Also, the FBI's probably going to have its hands full trying to ferret out pro-Soviet spies, agitators, etc. to have the resources to focus on right wing organizations, however extreme.

Originally Posted by Olefin

Now lots of groups like that sprouting up and being a handful en masse - that works and gives GM's a lot more freedom to create - i.e. its not "here we go again with the latest NA cell" - instead its more like "ok what group of wack jobs can I have the players run into this time"

True. I think either approach is fine. However, if one wants a big bad instead of lots of similar little bads, New America is a reasonable way to do it.

[Olefin]

FYI what I really hope is that they really do a trial run of the timeline and the game past as many veterans as they can - and by that I mean hard core players, GM's, module/sourcebook writers - both official and unofficial, both past and present. Add in a sprinkling of newbies or rookies as well as they need to bring more than just a bunch of guys who have been around since 1984 onboard if they want to make the game long term viable.

Get a decent amount of input and replies and then make sure it works as much as it can - there will never be perfect game but they can do what it takes so that its not like New Coke or the last two Star Wars movies where they ended up pissing off the real lovers of the product in the process of trying to redo something that had been out there a while.

And make sure that they know the time period - i.e. all you dont want is a writer in his 20's who has no idea what the 90's were like past old reruns of Friends and Seinfeld, especially the level of tech.

For a lot of young people the idea that the internet was dial up and slow as hell, that cell phones were almost non-existent and bulky as hell and that computers were nothing like today's are is beyond their comprehension. Showed my kids what computer graphics were like in the 90's and they literally couldnt believe we played those games for instance. Let alone the concept of a floppy disk.

[Benjamin]

I posted this on the Free League Twilight 2000 Facebook page a month ago...

My three cents...
(I’m a long time player and fan of Twilight 2000 who always uses the V.1 history.)
1. Make sure you have a very good and detailed vehicle rule set that handles vastly different vehicles and their armor. An M1 Abrams will not be penetrated by a M16 no matter how good the die roles. The armor levels between a HUMVEE and a T-80 with reactive armor are not really comparable. And the top of a tank is tissue paper compared to their frontal armor. Furthermore mechanics should exist that in some way replicate the difference between an M1A2 with A functional CITV and an M1A1. So many games ignore, downplay or over simplify vehicles, but every T2K group I’ve heard about and run with lived by their vehicles.

2. This is an alternate history your doing...think of the implications of that as you write the setting and choose gear. You’ll have (using V.2 T2K) about 4 years of peace to cover that will not be our post-Cold War history. What about the EU? The US 1992 election? Quebec referendum of 1995? So many things will quickly change if the Soviet Union does not fall and the world has a renewed even more tense Cold”er” War.

3. Do Not inject current political opinions or biases. There is no 9/11, endless war on Terror, Second Bush, Obama, Trump or Coronavirus. It’s more War Games, Red Dawn, Rocky IV, and Top Gun but with slightly better Tech and perhaps a bit of exhaustion. (I could see a real feeling of “We got so close to winning and now this.” taking hold in the West.) America is still leader of the Free World. There’s still a Third World. And given the level of repression the Soviets will need to implement to stop their collapse and hold onto Eastern Europe, they most definitely will be seen as the “Evil Empire.”

Do these well and you will have an excellent and interesting setting.
That’s of course just my humble opinion. Thanks.
P.S. Please do a Tales of the Loop non-canon crossover Supplement.

I think #3 is the most relevant recently.

Benjamin

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Hmm, a crossover with Tales From The Loop... there's an interesting idea.
Ideas, ideas...

If you don't mind a little bit of "weird science" in your games you could have the Loop in Sweden connect with the Loop in America, perhaps like a wormhole from Stargate.
The GM would have to decide what impact that has on the game world obviously, for me, I'd have the Loops require massive amounts of power to achieve the wormhole. There'd be a lot of time and effort spent rebuilding the power generation & distribution network in both countries to allow the Loops to have enough energy to create a wormhole... and after that, the North American personnel can have another chance at "Going Home".

[Olefin]

FYI guys notice the he also doesnt have this forum in the list of places he refers to in his press releases as well as my FB group.

When I sent him email he seemed unaware of this forum - and my facebook group is a private group that you have to be invited to. Which probably explains why they werent mentioned and not any post that was on it.

[Raellus]

Alpha PDF's are available to KS backers today. Check your e-mails and download away!

-

[Silent Hunter UK]

Anyone interested in a test game on RPOL?

[Ewan]

Downloaded the files and production quality looks really good.

[Ash247]

I'm liking the artwork alot.

[Ewan]

Originally Posted by Ash247

I'm liking the artwork alot.

Totally agree

[comped]

UK is gets Sealanded... Somehow. Among other things. People are not happy.

[Silent Hunter UK]

Sealanded? Do you mean Sealioned?

[comped]

Originally Posted by Silent Hunter UK

Sealanded? Do you mean Sealioned?

Indeed. Bloody autocorrect.

[Silent Hunter UK]

It's funny, because there is a place called Sealand off the British coast...

[Olefin]

So the UK sends everything basically to fight and doesnt even leave the Territorial units behind? What the heck? That makes basically no sense at all - there is no way the UK commits everything and basically leaves themsevles bare naked against the Soviets - and reading Reset this isnt just the 5th that gets destroyed - its basically most of NATO

Three Polish Corps, one UK, one US, one German, one Netherlands, one Belgian - ALL of them get overrun and are "running for the woods"? What the heck - so basically the Soviets win the war and NATO is finished? This in a war with the active participation on the NATO side of multiple former Warsaw Pact nations and France?

So we are to believe the Soviets destroy EIGHT FULL CORPS????

Sorry when exactly did the Soviet Army become an unstoppable juggernaut against basically the entire armies of Western Europe, the US, and Central and Eastern Europe?

And what happened to all the reinforcements that were being sent - that many men would have rebuilt back to full strength every unit in the US Army that got deployed to Europe- are they saying that ALL OF THEM died on the way over?

[Olefin]

Eight full Corps destroyed by the Soviets in RESET? By what - did the Soviets somehow ally with HG Wells Martians? Invent tank armor that cannot be penetrated by any modern weapon? This isnt two Corps taking it on the chin, one running for its life and another cut off, with most of it holding on in Poland while the 5th gets wiped out.

This is the heart of NATO wiped out and the survivors running for the hills. Basically they have the Soviets winning the war.

Sorry but if this is their so called history I will stick with V1 and V2.2.

[Olefin]

and I would like to actually give my honest real opinions of the back story, the war, the end of the war and the Soviets somehow being an unbeatable force but I would have to violate every forum guideline to give an honest real opinion

So instead

IT SUCKS

[Olefin]

Oh and no mention of Turkey, Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc.. - i.e. were they all too busy doing something else for three years?

And the French join in the fun, get nuked like crazy and dont retaliate??? Sure what the hell its not like they care about Paris and Northern France

[Olefin]

and ignoring the background and details and timeline can be done - but then it makes 4th edition COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY WORTHLESS for those who want to do a campaign who arent famliar with the V1 and V2.2

This is game writing 101 they are ignoring - its fine and dandy if you want to write a game that you play for a couple of nights and move on - but sucks big time if you want to do a campaign - and frankly this spits in the face of the long time players of this game

[Jason Weiser]

Ok, Olefin. I get it. We're all rather invested in this and have deep concerns...can you let someone else respond to your posts?

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Jason Weiser

Ok, Olefin. I get it. We're all rather invested in this and have deep concerns...can you let someone else respond to your posts?

Sorry - as I said to you - this just hurts

[swaghauler]

Olefin, man... deep breath in, deep breath out...

Jason, your closest to Olefin. You may need to scoot over there and check his blood pressure. I'm worried about him.

So what I'm hearing here is that the V4 timeline was written by Russian internet trolls.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

Olefin, man... deep breath in, deep breath out...

Jason, your closest to Olefin. You may need to scoot over there and check his blood pressure. I'm worried about him.

So what I'm hearing here is that the V4 timeline was written by Russian internet trolls.

Oh I havent yet begun to fight this abomination - and frankly I would agree with you on the Russian internet trolls - or Soviet fanboys

[Rockwolf66]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Oh I havent yet begun to fight this abomination - and frankly I would agree with you on the Russian internet trolls - or Soviet fanboys

From what I have read of the 4th ed timeline it was written by an Antifa fanboy who gets off to images of AOC.

In it the US President is a warmongering idiot. The Brits are somehow ineffective, and the Russians are superhuman.

Lets not get into how IRL the Russians and the Chinese have too much spilt blood between them to ever ally again.

All in all it's ham fisted leftist BS.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

So what I'm hearing here is that the V4 timeline was written by Russian internet trolls.

You're actually not that far off...

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I'm just going to pretend this never happened, and keep playing 1e Twilight 2000.

Maybe this spring I'll put together a T2k on Discord or Roll20.

But I won't be playing this.

[FPSlover]

Originally Posted by Olefin

So the UK sends everything basically to fight and doesnt even leave the Territorial units behind? What the heck? That makes basically no sense at all - there is no way the UK commits everything and basically leaves themsevles bare naked against the Soviets - and reading Reset this isnt just the 5th that gets destroyed - its basically most of NATO

Three Polish Corps, one UK, one US, one German, one Netherlands, one Belgian - ALL of them get overrun and are "running for the woods"? What the heck - so basically the Soviets win the war and NATO is finished? This in a war with the active participation on the NATO side of multiple former Warsaw Pact nations and France?

So we are to believe the Soviets destroy EIGHT FULL CORPS????

The only possible way London could justify having most of the TA deploy is if they recreated the Home Guard or something equally as mad to take over defense at home. Which again, is not their job, as it's the TA's job to conduct home defense. Even then, at least SOME (call it at least 25% and more probably 30%) of the TA would have to remain at home so as to properly train said units and war replacements.

As for the eight Corps', that's anywhere from 240,000 men to 400,000 men (if I knew the exact corps', I could probably track down the exact numbers). Those losses would be among the bloodiest battles in history, and that's just NATO casualties. If upwards of 400,000 NATO lost their lives, I'd hate to see Soviet casualties. They almost certainly are in much excess of NATO.

[Lurken]

Originally Posted by Olefin

So the UK sends everything basically to fight and doesnt even leave the Territorial units behind? What the heck? That makes basically no sense at all - there is no way the UK commits everything and basically leaves themsevles bare naked against the Soviets

From the Alpha, chapter "World at War", UK segment:
"EXCERPT"

They seem to have sent all Territorial Forces and relaunched the Home Guard to fill that role. And it seems that the last remnants of them charged into the Soviet MGs at Trafalgar Square.

[FPSlover]

Originally Posted by Lurken

From the Alpha, chapter "World at War", UK segment:
"EXCERPT"

They seem to have sent all Territorial Forces and relaunched the Home Guard to fill that role. And it seems that the last remnants of them charged into the Soviet MGs at Trafalgar Square.

Huh, so my guess was right. That is... damn odd. I can get some being sent, at least as volunteers or drafts to increase manpower during the late part of the war, but the entire thing? And reviving the Home Guard (a group that, in all honesty, would have not proven too effective had the Germans ever invaded) to replace them? Madness I say! Sheer bloody madness!