Tank graveyard

[robert.munsey]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Let me keep it easy for you. I didn't say 7.62N even AP when I spoke of hull penetrations through the side armor of BTR-60s and 70s....

So you misquoted me to begin with.

No, I asked you at what range does the the M61 7.62mm AP round penetrate since you know so much.

However if you want to go to the .50 caliber penetration, ok start quoting. Which round? M8 AP? M20? M2 Ball? What range do you have penetration and what range will you not have penetration?

Also don't quote the M962 and other exotic rounds, lets keep it simple for you.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Hey guys, this is starting to get pretty chippy. Let's all dial it down a couple notches, take a deep breath, and consider agreeing to disagree. It's pretty clear by now that no one involved in this argument is going to change his mind.

I posted this yesterday. It holds doubly true today. Either folks chill themselves out or this thread will be shut down.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by robert.munsey

No, I asked you at what range does the the M61 7.62mm AP round penetrate since you know so much.

However if you want to go to the .50 caliber penetration, ok start quoting. Which round? M8 AP? M20? M2 Ball? What range do you have penetration and what range will you not have penetration?

Also don't quote the M962 and other exotic rounds, lets keep it simple for you.

With that attitude.

No.

[Olefin]

actually I have stuck the subject - the one who has been making unneccesary comments has been, by and large, yourself ArmySgt

and back to the subject - so obviously looking at how the canon modules were written marauders aren't quite the deadly tank killers that they have been painted to be here by some people - which makes sense -

One thing to keep in mind is the conscript nature of many of the armies that make up T2K - while those with Special Forces or explosives training had a lot of ideas on how to take out tanks your average conscript did not have that kind of training - so while a Ranger or Green Beret or Spetsnaz trained soldier or combat engineer who has worked with explosives may have all kinds of nasty surprises your typical conscript is probably going to not have much beyond "throw the Molotov" as a way to take out tanks or armored vehicles once the unit has expended any anti-tank weapons they have

that goes for the Soviet, Mexican and Chinese armies - so marauders from those forces are probably going to not be the best improvised armor killers unless they fought a lot of armor

in other words a Mexican conscript that spent his war years fighting SWAT teams, National Guard or reserve infantry with no armor or guerrillas isnt going to have much experience to draw on when that tank comes over the hill - whereas marauders in Poland who have spent years surviving tank assaults are probably going to be the ones who come up with all kinds of ways to take you on

a great example of this would be in the Caribbean - the Cubans who took Grenada over again are having a real fun time there - not because of whats left of the police - its because of several ex- Special Forces guys who retired there making improvised explosives

again read the description of the attack on Brownsville - the marauders, with no experience facing down armor, get their heads handed to them - but the character party, who is assumed to have survived all the fun in the sun in Poland and Germany, is expected to have all kinds of ways to brew up armor

but I dont see Special Forces types or lots of European vets in marauder forces - at least not in late 2000-early 2001 when much of the game is set - those Omega guys have a long way to go to get to CA - so if Littlefields tanks do show up, most likely those who take them on are going to be the same type of troops that panicked at Brownsville -i.e. conscript Mexican forces who havent taken on any kind of real armored force and dont have guys with them with all kinds of experience fighting tanks or marauders who may be great at spraying a lot of bullets around terrorizing farmers and small communities but who wouldnt know the first thing about taking on tanks

[Legbreaker]

What is it about this forum where anyone who disagrees with your point of view and actually shows some actual subject knowledge gets stomped on?
So many armchair warriors!!!

HEAT rounds can be made in small workshops, provided the maths is right. They are at the most basic just another form of shaped charge. The real issue is, as I said, getting the maths right to maximise effectiveness.

Hell, you don't even need a workshop for a shaped charge! I know because I've made them with my own hands out of scrap found around the barracks (nothing you could stick on an RPG though).

Tanks are vulnerable to any number of tactics and weapons. They are not now, in the past, or anytime in the foreseeable future particularly difficult to knock out by a determined opposition. That said, infantry (and I was one of them) are just so much red mist if caught out in the open - it's up to the unit commanders to be aware of their units limitations (of ALL types) and avoid putting them into suicidal situations.

[Raellus]

And this is why we can't have nice things.

Private warnings have been issued. If any of you plan to continue ignoring forum guidelines and take this nastiness to another thread, temporary bans will be issued. Consider this a final warning.