OT: China's new carrier

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by RN7

... But if India and Thailand have carriers, and Japan, South Korea and Australia are building helicopter carrying assault ships then the Chinese probably feel they should have one as well.

An interesting point - the big joke here however (and it's a joke on the West by the West), is that nations like Australia are building up their amphibious warfare abilities not for a greater capacity to fight a conventional war, but to increase their capacities in the low level insurgency warfare they were fighting in Iraq and are still fighting in Afghanistan. Conflicts like the East Timor situation and Australian assistance to the Solomon Islands have reinforced the belief that they'll be involved only in low level conflict for the near future.

A recent article in the Australian publication "Defence Today" titled "COIN reorientation - too far or not far enough?" by Dr Carlo Kopp discusses the decisions of Western nations to neglect the maintenance/improvement of their conventional combat abilities (particularly air defence and naval warfare) in favour of further increasing their counter-insurgency abilities. (Defence Today, Volume 9 Number 2, September 2011, pages 24 to 27 - minor preview here - but only valid until the next issue is published)

If the Chinese do field a viable aircraft carrier/s, it might be enough to cause a rethink for Western militaries away from their obsession with insurgency warfare perhaps? (The West really does seem to believe that insurgency warfare is the only warfare they'll be dealing with for the future).

[Webstral]

In the spirit of playing ball with my fellow moderator, I'm going to put the hardball discussion about China aside. I'm nbot going to try to slip in points or shots under the radar. I will say that RN7 has made some very valid points, has provided me with some things to think about, and has refrained from name-calling (always a welcome relief). Other than that, I'm back to naval strategy.

So... I agree completely that there is a showing-the-colors aspect to the new carrier. I also think that there's a long-term game plan. The Chinese need to build their expertise. Expertise in carrier operations will be useful in dealing with the US, India, and any and all regional players.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Webstral

In the spirit of playing ball with my fellow moderator, I'm going to put the hardball discussion about China aside. I'm nbot going to try to slip in points or shots under the radar. I will say that RN7 has made some very valid points, has provided me with some things to think about, and has refrained from name-calling (always a welcome relief). Other than that, I'm back to naval strategy.

Well thanks for that Webstral, but I was just getting going on a rant about China. I have nothing against the Chinese but I absolutely despise the People's Republic government. Its vile and I'm amazed how a country as important as China still has a government like this.

Originally Posted by Webstral

So... I agree completely that there is a showing-the-colors aspect to the new carrier. I also think that there's a long-term game plan. The Chinese need to build their expertise. Expertise in carrier operations will be useful in dealing with the US, India, and any and all regional players.

Long term is the goal, but I think keeping good defence relations with Russia, not provoking an arms race with Japan and keeping ahead of India is their priority at the moment. but eventually challenging or even gaining parity with America in the Pacific is what they are looking at in the long term.

[headquarters]

I would lik eto chime in on the already stated fact - noone can match the USN be it the Pacific oranywhere else - it would be a matter of time before they get there fastest with the mostest so to say ( and damn the torpedos)

I am thinking the Chinese want to be able to wave the flag as already stated - always a useful tool in the military- diplomatic game, but also I think there is the goal of being able to confront lesser neighbouring navies - and actually going in and sorting things out far away if need be - evacuating nationals stranded in an unsavoury African civil war springs to mind, antipirate duty or what not - but also delivering some well placed ordinance to beef up their proxies and dishearten their adversaries in an imagined internal conflict somewhere the Chinese have invested money and efforts.

As someone have said - China have some internal turbulence - in an extreme situation a carrier could be the means to punish an area otherwise out of reach of the hardliners in power - again an imagined scenario with domestic unrest and the central goverment in need of striking rebels from the sea,blocking sea lanes etc .

As for the full on naval war with other major players like RN or USN I see that as a short lived affair ending with a lot of grief in Beijing.

[ArmySGT.]

She has put to sea. So the support structure is beginning to learn first hand, then the naval aviators will come along.

Chinese Carrier puts to Sea.

There is also the well developed and unspoken of in the west Chinese Nuclear weapons tunnels