Our MIA Admin

[Targan]

I would love to see our most excellent admin kato13 posting on this forum again. All those in favour?

[Raellus]

Aye!

[Legbreaker]

Aye!

[cavtroop]

What drove him away, anyways? Note, if it opens old wounds, it won't kill me not to know

[Mohoender]

Great Poll Targ!

Funny that for the first six people to answer it, you get a 100% for the "all of the above".

However, I have seen him around lately.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by cavtroop

What drove him away, anyways? Note, if it opens old wounds, it won't kill me not to know

I believe it was dealing with flame-level posts in some threads (although the most heated thread I participated in was on the old forum -- and no, I'm not going to say what the thread was about)

[headquarters]

I fully understand he needs time of-and maybe that some of us need time to prove that we can behave .

I would like him to come back though -

[Marc]

Ei!!

Popping up just a moment while at work to answer this thread. Great idea Targan. Kato, amic, come back to take care of your orphans. We're growing in numbers every week.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Kato - Come back to us!!!!

[kato13]

Originally Posted by cavtroop

What drove him away, anyways? Note, if it opens old wounds, it won't kill me not to know

Explaining my absence.

I have been on hiatus for several months. I really have no idea how long it has been but it is certainly beyond the 30 days I felt I needed initially.

I will be totally honest, I still have very little desire to come back here and start posting.

At the time I had decided to leave I was at about 96% (with ~1400 hours and 11,000 lines of code) of completion of my post-apoc mapping program. This was the focus of virtually all of my free time for over a year.

IMO only the DC group and Paul had worked as hard and as long as I had done to provide volumes of well researched materials for for the T2k world (Props to Web, Ant, GP and HQ as well).

I was very excited about my map system's pending launch. Then this board entered into a heated discussion about the DC groups work, much of which I felt amounted to a gratis equine dental examination ("looking a gift horse in the mouth") and then actually complaining about it. Imagine that, a group of people who are spending literally 1000s of hours of their time to build something they plan to give away, and they end up getting as much flak as support.

This sucked all the motivation out of me to even complete that last 4% of my project. It also forced me to reevaluate how I spend my time as I could have produced 2 or 3 robust (and profitable) applications in the time I spent programming and smoothing data for my maps (not to mention the 4-10 hours I spent monitoring and maintaining the forum each week).

My most common statement during the "debate" about the DC Group was "It's just a game" and you know what, I took that to heart. When it ceased being fun, I walked away.

This board has not recently demonstrated the factors that drove me away (and I am happy for that), but the spark in me that kept me coming back is just not there. I am honestly not sure if or when it will come back.

Sorry guys but I don't expect to be back soon.

-kato


P.S.
I do stop by semi-daily to check for spammers, so I will catch the occational message, but I do not read every post like I used to. I also have plans if moderation becomes necessary, but nothing has reached that threshold IMO.

P.P.S.
Welcome to all new members especially Brit and Akula (whom I will remove from our old board's MIA list at some point)

[headquarters]

Well,this really makes me feel bad .

I guess we all should try to remember to stay respectful towards other
T2Krs..what few there are left of us..

Sorry it went down like this.

[General Pain]

...speechless.....

I hope you get the spark back Kato

You're number one.









PS:Stop messing with the DC group - they deliver quality work....whoever you are...

[Targan]

Ouch. I think I'd feel happier right now if I hadn't posted this poll.

[cavtroop]

You make a very valid point though - it's just a game (though we all tend to take it pretty seriously) - if it's ceased being fun for you, I can't fault you at all for walking away for a time.

Sometimes a long hiatus from something you love is what you need to rejuvenate. I know I speak for most here when we say that we appreciate what you've done for us!

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by cavtroop

I know I speak for most here when we say that we appreciate what you've done for us!

That is an understatement.

[headquarters]

and as such unimportant -
but I speak for more than myself I feel , when I say that it is :

the most important of the unimportant things .

some people have their sports ,my game is infinitely more refined ,and I spend just as much time mulling over it and enjoying it .

I have felt that others have "punctured my balloon " when I have been all excited about the game and the work I have put into it as well sometimes-countless hours - and then meet lackluster appreciation or even negativity.

the feeling sucks.

Well,there are some 200 of us who are registered here -WORLDWIDE- not alot when you consider it .There are few focal points for our interest and the amount of new material being made is limited and made by unpaid volunteers.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we are an endangered species ,and that we need to care for our habitat and the continued survival of the group.

Originally Posted by kato13

Explaining my absence.

I have been on hiatus for several months. I really have no idea how long it has been but it is certainly beyond the 30 days I felt I needed initially.

I will be totally honest, I still have very little desire to come back here and start posting.

At the time I had decided to leave I was at about 96% (with ~1400 hours and 11,000 lines of code) of completion of my post-apoc mapping program. This was the focus of virtually all of my free time for over a year.

IMO only the DC group and Paul had worked as hard and as long as I had done to provide volumes of well researched materials for for the T2k world (Props to Web, Ant, GP and HQ as well).

I was very excited about my map system's pending launch. Then this board entered into a heated discussion about the DC groups work, much of which I felt amounted to a gratis equine dental examination ("looking a gift horse in the mouth") and then actually complaining about it. Imagine that, a group of people who are spending literally 1000s of hours of their time to build something they plan to give away, and they end up getting as much flak as support.

This sucked all the motivation out of me to even complete that last 4% of my project. It also forced me to reevaluate how I spend my time as I could have produced 2 or 3 robust (and profitable) applications in the time I spent programming and smoothing data for my maps (not to mention the 4-10 hours I spent monitoring and maintaining the forum each week).

My most common statement during the "debate" about the DC Group was "It's just a game" and you know what, I took that to heart. When it ceased being fun, I walked away.

This board has not recently demonstrated the factors that drove me away (and I am happy for that), but the spark in me that kept me coming back is just not there. I am honestly not sure if or when it will come back.

Sorry guys but I don't expect to be back soon.

-kato


P.S.
I do stop by semi-daily to check for spammers, so I will catch the occational message, but I do not read every post like I used to. I also have plans if moderation becomes necessary, but nothing has reached that threshold IMO.

P.P.S.
Welcome to all new members especially Brit and Akula (whom I will remove from our old board's MIA list at some point)

[Marc]

Originally Posted by headquarters

I guess what I am trying to say is that we are an endangered species ,and that we need to care for our habitat and the continued survival of the group.

Wow!

This sentence needs some epic background music and the hero silhouetted against a red, postapocalyptic dusk, waving cloak included... And the two-hundred ready to charge downhill for the last time, 20-sided dice in one hand and the bucket of chip potatoes in the other.

After many years, you will share with your attentive grandchildren the great secret:"....Come here boys...your grandfather was one of the two-hundred...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers..." (More epic background music, please)

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Marc

Wow!
... And the two-hundred ready to charge downhill for the last time, 20-sided dice in one hand and the bucket of chip potatoes in the other.

As most of us are probably carrying a little more weight than in our prime and haven't run a step in years, I'd say that charge would die out after a few short yards.

Cue comical collapse of half the group, gasping for breath and leaning on each other for support.

[Marc]

Fortunately, the movie ends with the two hundred charging in slow motion (frontal view) just before the screen fades in black and the words "Good luck, you're in your own" appear as a last, cryptical message. What happens next is only in the overstimulated imagination of the spectator. No need for more details to tarnish the glory and the feeling of the last scene.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by headquarters

I guess what I am trying to say is that we are an endangered species ,and that we need to care for our habitat and the continued survival of the group.

Well said and a good way to look at it. Schisms in our little community are not good. We are an endangered species and when we start attacking each other, it only hastens the extinction of this grand old game we all care way too much about. We need to respect the effort our creative members put forth. I think we can still disagree on various things but we need to do so respectfully.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

As most of us are probably carrying a little more weight than in our prime and haven't run a step in years, I'd say that charge would die out after a few short yards.

Cue comical collapse of half the group, gasping for breath and leaning on each other for support.

the D20 wielders..

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Well said and a good way to look at it. Schisms in our little community are not good. We are an endangered species and when we start attacking each other, it only hastens the extinction of this grand old game we all care way too much about. We need to respect the effort our creative members put forth. I think we can still disagree on various things but we need to do so respectfully.

glad to hear it .

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Marc

After many years, you will share with your attentive grandchildren the great secret:"....Come here boys...your grandfather was one of the two-hundred...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers..." (More epic background music, please)

I couldn't agree more....

I think only one thing remains from Marc's epic protrait.

"Flag to the front.....

Fix Bayonets....

Bugler, sound the charge....."

[Mohoender]

... (and from the line in front) Battery hold your fire!

Load Shrapnells...

Hold it... hold it...

Keep your position...

Fire all pieces...

[headquarters]

-allthough it will be to the last man

[Webstral]

Well, we got what we deserved. Some things can't be put completely right after the fact.

I bear my part of the shame for all of this. I had my differences with some of the assumptions of the DC Group's work, which is natural enough. I didn't spend time praising the parts that I found excellent in proportion with the parts I thought needed revision. I can't fix it by saying I wish I had been more supportive of my colleagues' creative efforts, but I do wish it.

As a group, I think we encountered a conflict of expectations. Some of us have been working towards creating a cohesive world that more-or-less meshes with established material. I don't remember anyone putting that idea into words, but looking back I believe that I felt it. Others of us are simply putting their ideas out there for the rest of the community to use or refuse as they see fit. The latter is probably the more realistic approach, given the inevitable differences of opinion that arise as groups grow.

While I still like the idea of crafting a unified world, different authors are going to come up with different ideas. I have sensed among the reactions to some of the larger works, like the DC Group's work, a feeling that large completed bodies of work make great claims on the common Twilight: 2000 world as a whole. The authors, who have put in lots of time and love, often are resistant to less-than-positive observations by the other members of the community. The authors understandably feel like they are being sniped at rather than acknowledged for their contributions, and they fight for the integrity of their work. The readers, on the other hand, seem to feel put upon by the presumption of completion that may appear to accompany the product. Especially regarding the large-scale works that focus on the more central areas/aspects of the Twilight: 2000 world, readers may feel that they are being pre-emptively told "This is how it goes" regarding the subject matter of the work. Not having been consulted before the work was presented, some readers reply with an understandable annoyance at what seems like a proprietary claim to a segment of the Twilight: 2000 world.

If the idea here is to build some sort of unified Twilight: 2000 world, we're going to have to come up with some procedural techniques to come to some agreement on the material. If the idea is simply to discuss ideas in a public forum while working on independent outgrowths of the established Twilight: 2000 world, then we should consider committing to this idea, albeit on an individual basis. If we're sharing our own ideas and not making any effort to create some sort of authoritative combined Twilight: 2000 universe, then there's no need for anyone's feelings to be hurt either way. If I don't like your idea, I don't use it.

I for one prefer to attempt to create a more-or-less contiguous Twilight: 2000 world. I like using the materials created by others. I'd rather not try to reinvent the wheel regarding such big ticket items as Operation Omega when others have done so well before me. I think we're all going to have to make up our minds what we expect from this forum, this exchange of ideas, and the prospects of a Twilight: 2000 universe.

Webstral

[Legbreaker]

Web, you've summed it up beautifully!

While I agree we should support each others efforts, great care must be taken to avoid following the path of "political correctness" and avoid critism. If all anyone ever receives is praise, their work is extremely unlikely to develop into something better.

On the other side of the coin, developers, writers, etc much be able to accept the critism in the spirit in which it is intended. I doubt there is anyone involved in this forum who has any great problem with anyone else as a person, we're just all concerned about ensuring the end results of our collected works are as good as they can be.

To sum up: If somebody says something negative about your work, it's not a personal attack, it's intended as constructive.


HOWEVER, if somebody is seen to be attacking an individual rather than commenting on their work, I say feed them to the lions!

[Cdnwolf]

Originally Posted by kato13

Explaining my absence.

At the time I had decided to leave I was at about 96% (with ~1400 hours and 11,000 lines of code) of completion of my post-apoc mapping program. This was the focus of virtually all of my free time for over a year.

Ummm any chance you will ever finish this masterpiece... I for one would love to see it.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Cdnwolf

Ummm any chance you will ever finish this masterpiece... I for one would love to see it.

Me too.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Targan

Me too.

so close...