Egypt in T2K

[General Pain]

Just curious if anyone have done any extensive work on Egypt and neighbouring states.

[Brother in Arms]

I have wondered about Egypt often myself in t2k its such an unusual country I wonder where it would wind up.
Also there would be tons of old surplus Hakim rifles there

[Legbreaker]

We had a brief discussion on Egypt and Israel just recently. I don't think we uncovered much in the way of prior work on the area...

[StainlessSteelCynic]

It's not likely you'd find many Hakim rifles there in any Twilight: 2000 timeline as they were phased out in the 1970s and pretty much disposed of when the Egyptians got plenty of Soviet aid and adopted the AK series. That and the problem of finding enough 7.92mm Mauser ammunition for the Hakim would really limit their appeal.
But back to the original question, I don't think there's been much, if any, work on Egypt in the Twilight: 2000 setting

[pmulcahy11b]

Hakim rifles have been available on the civilian surplus market since the early 1980s. At least in the US, there would be a lot of them around, especially in they were generally cheap during most of the 1980s. I think there would be more Hakims in the hands of civilians than in military or police hands, though. They would be more common than you might think, because the Egyptians basically dumped them on the civilian market. 8mm Mauser (also called 7.92mm Mauser) ammunition was also a lot more popular than most people think, also because it's cheap.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

While they're available in North America and the ammunition is likely plentiful in North America and Europe, there would not be many Hakim rifles left in Egypt by the late 1980s for the reasons I mentioned, plus civilian firearms ownership is not encouraged there.

[General Pain]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakim_Rifle

[General Pain]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasheed_Carbine

[sglancy12]

This is what I have written so far about Egypt in my home-brew TW2K gazetteer...

Northern Africa
Islamism: the greatest threat among north African states is radical Islamism, Sunni-dominated ideology intent on creating Islamic republics and ultimately a unified caliphate for all Islam. This movement will succeed in either collapsing or overthrowing many governments across north Africa. Most Islamists are Arabic in ethnicity. There is a strong racial component to their Jihad, with Black African Muslims and even Berbers considered second-class citizens.

Slavery: Slavery, in one form or another, is making a global comeback, in Europe, Asia, Africa and North America. Only France, Sweden, South America and Australia are (so-far) immune. In some states it is carried out by the state and called “conscripted or forced labor.” In Africa slavery was condoned by Islam and never fully eradicated. The private ownership of human beings is becoming extremely common, especially in areas controlled by Islamist groups.

Borders: Considering how much of Northern Africa is made up of low-population density desert, pre-war borders have lost much of their meaning. There is little organization outside areas of cultivation or urban centers. Undoubtedly as the population levels adjust to the local food levels, new governments will arise and claim new borders, likely based on ethnic and tribal “blood boundaries.”


Arab Republic of Egypt:
Prewar Population: >60,000,000
Prewar Population Density: 74/km2
Prewar per capita income: $4,836
Prewar Literacy: 71.5%
Prewar Demographics: 80-90% Muslim (including Suffis and Shi’a), 95% of remainder are Coptic Christian
Prewar Infrastructure: 72 paved airports, 16 unpaved, 3 heliports, 5,063 km rail, 14,000 km of oil & gas pipelines, 74, 820 km paved roads, 17,550 km unpaved roads, 3,500 km navigable waterways, 6 ports
Prewar Land Use/Crops: arable land: 2.92%, permanent crops: 0.5%, other: 96.58%, 34,220 sq km irrigated land/ cotton, rice, corn, wheat, beans, fruits, vegetables; cattle, water buffalo, sheep, goats
Prewar Energy Production:
Fossil Fuels: 85%
Hydroelectric: Aswan High Dam 15%
Prewar Energy Reserves: petroleum, natural gas
Prewar Resources/Industries: iron ore, phosphates, manganese, limestone, gypsum, talc, asbestos, lead, zinc/ textiles, food processing, tourism, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, hydrocarbons, construction, cement, metals, light manufactures
Post War Casualties Summer 2000:

Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood plunges country into civil war. Also at war with Sudan over control of the region known as the Hala’ib Triangle. The country’s communications net was damaged by EMP when the Suez Canal zone is nuked by the USSR. The national government does not control much besides a strip of land between Cairo and Alexandria.

Sinai desert abandoned. Western Desert abandoned. Was more damage inflicted via Israeli nuclear counter-strike provoked by terrorist nuclear bombing of Tel Aviv. Egypt is over run by Palestinian refugees and is the launch point for Palestinian attacks back into Israel.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

The Twilight: 2000 wiki has the following short entries on the region
http://twilight2000.wikia.com/wiki/T..._War_of_Africa
http://twilight2000.wikia.com/wiki/The_Great_Muslim_War

There's also a page on Egypt but it says little more than what you'd find in any encyclopedia although it is quite wrong about the yearly flooding cycle unless of course the two Aswan dams are destroyed (but it does not mention anything about the dams). With the dams in place, Egypt relies heavily on fertilizers to keep its agricultural production up as the dams prevent fresh soil from flushing down to the floodplains and renewing the fertility of the farmlands.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

http://twilight2000.wikia.com/wiki/T..._War_of_Africa

That totally contradicts things regarding France.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

That totally contradicts things regarding France.

Note both of those are "Twilight 2000 3rd Edition"

I have found the Wiki seems to focus on T2k13

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by kato13

Note both of those are "Twilight 2000 3rd Edition"

I have found the Wiki seems to focus on T2k13

Ahh, I was unaware of that as I did little more than skim that wiki some time back and I remembered that they mentioned the Middle East. I went back and simply typed in Egypt to the search box.
Sorry for the confusion, I really should have paid a lot more attention to the bottom of the page.

Personally, I would rather they called the article 2013 instead of Twilight: 2000 3rd edition as I tend to see the - 2000 - and assume it's the proper game. Looking over the site again you are absolutely right Kato, overall the wiki does little more than give a basic rundown of Twilight: 2000 while it seems one particular fan of 2013 has contributed pages upon pages of information for that game

[kato13]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Ahh, I was unaware of that as I did little more than skim that wiki some time back and I remembered that they mentioned the Middle East. I went back and simply typed in Egypt to the search box.
Sorry for the confusion, I really should have paid a lot more attention to the bottom of the page.

Personally, I would rather they called the article 2013 instead of Twilight: 2000 3rd edition as I tend to see the - 2000 - and assume it's the proper game. Looking over the site again you are absolutely right Kato, overall the wiki does little more than give a basic rundown of Twilight: 2000 while it seems one particular fan of 2013 has contributed pages upon pages of information for that game

No reason to apologize. T2k13 is simply a different version. We don't cover it much here (as they have their own forums), but it is certainly on topic. I just wanted to explain the apparent inconsistency on France.

I am still debating if another Wiki (perhaps directly connected to this forum) would gain more traction for V1/V2/V2.2 materials. I have many conflicting thoughts on this.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by kato13

No reason to apologize. T2k13 is simply a different version. We don't cover it much here (as they have their own forums), but it is certainly on topic. I just wanted to explain the apparent inconsistency on France.

I am still debating if another Wiki (perhaps directly connected to this forum) would gain more traction for V1/V2/V2.2 materials. I have many conflicting thoughts on this.

Generally speaking I think it wouldn't be necessary (or even desirable) to establish another wiki that would be in direct competition with the Twilight: 2000 wiki that's already in place. However, it certainly seems that the wiki in question is generally neglected by the Twilight: 2000 crowd (perhaps because the majority of them are either here or on the Yahoo sites and don't feel the desire to contribute the same information in two, three or more places?)

[Legbreaker]

I think that's a very valid assumption. I for one rarely so much as glance at the T2K wiki - maybe once every 6 months at best.
What we have here seems to me at least to be quite definative.

[Targan]

I haven't looked at the T2K wiki in ages. Does it contain a link to us?

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Targan

I haven't looked at the T2K wiki in ages. Does it contain a link to us?

Yeah it does. And we link back to them in the new users thread.

[Olefin]

I had some things on Egypt in my East African Sourcebook that I put up on the forum earlier - http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.p...ht=east+africa

had several Egyptian refineries getting nuked by the Russians that had the effect of closing the southern end of the Suez Canal and wrecking Cairo and Alexandria in the process - and then then Libyans taking out the Aswan Dam in the process to add to the fun

i.e..

Dec 6, 1997

In Egypt, Cairo, Suez and Alexandria are left in
ruins by multiple strikes against the major
refineries in those cities. While the Suez Canal is
not directly targeted in the attack, the nuclear
strikes on the refineries at Suez effectively block
the southern end of the Canal with the wrecks of
several merchant ships and tankers. Over three
million Egyptians die in the attacks and another
two million are severely wounded.

December 9, 1997

Taking advantage of the chaos gripping Egypt,
Libya launches an attack by 10 Tu-22 bombers
against the Aswan Dam, hitting it repeatedly
until the center of the dam collapses, sending a
wall of water down the Nile, drowning over a
hundred thousand Egyptians and displacing tens
of thousands more. The attack destroys most of
what electrical power was still being generated
in Egypt after the nuclear attacks. Libyan tank
formations cross into Egypt and head east
against pitiful resistance.


I had the last operational refinery in Northern Africa being the small one at Wadi Feiran in the Sinai.

Used those attacks to explain the lack of Egyptian forces in the RDF or their being mentioned at all -i.e. basically the nuke attacks and the attack on Aswan has finished Egypt as a country along with most of their population.