State Guards in USA?

[Mohoender]

Do you have any insight on state guards? What equipment do they have? Do you think that they would be active during the twilight war? What do you think about their potential role?

[pmulcahy11b]

In Texas, the State Guard basically has whatever weapons they have to bring to the party. Their uniforms are the old pickle-skins (by now they may have BDUs), and they have whatever web gear and equipment they can get a hold of (often cast offs from the National Guard). I don't know what their training schedule is like, but their training is minimal, and they are composed largely of those who either can't qualify for National Guard service or are vets who no longer want to be fully connected to the military. They do, however, man the armories when the National Guard unit is away at annual training; I'm not sure about a deployment.

In T2K, they'd make a credible guerrilla force, but not a regular military-quality unit.

[Webstral]

Mo,

Here's a link to get you started. Of course, if you are thinking about State Guards in Twilight: 2000, one has to go back about 15 years. The picture is much sparser back then. However, there are some threads in the archives in which we discuss developments in State Guards in the Twilight: 2000 universe. The general consensus was that you could justify halfway decent light infantry equipment, Vietnam-era weapons, and a few vehicles here and there under select circumstances. Overall, though, the State Guards failed to live up to their potential, albeit for very undrstandable reasons.

http://www.sgaus.org/

Webstral

[Webstral]

On a side note, I’m very excited about the possibilities for properly run State Guards—hereafter referred to as SDF (State Defense Forces). There is a growing need for organized bodies of citizens to conduct civil defense missions. Our highly mobile and urbanized citizenry is losing touch with the spirit of cooperation and self-reliance that marked our forebears. More widespread involvement in civil defense could go a long way towards addressing a number of our ills, disaster response being only one among them.

I’ll discuss one beneficial side effect. For those of you who have teens or who work with teens, you are probably aware that we do a horrible job of giving our teens positive outlets for building their self-esteem and associating with other adults in a fashion that enables them to practice being adults, not just big kids. Maybe it’s different outside the US. Here, teens have limited opportunities to build their self-esteem before they turn 18. Athletics are fine, but what happens when you don’t make the team? What happens when you do something that is viewed with mild scorn, like art or music? Let’s not even go into whether getting good grades genuinely builds self-esteem for teenaged boys.

No, boys in particular need accomplishments to build their self-esteem. No amount of fakery and patting on the head will suffice. Getting an A is fine, but it’s not a real accomplishment of the manly sort. Participating as an auxiliary in the local SDF unit—now there’s something to be pointed to. Learning a little bit of D&C, some first aid, some civil defense—earning a ribbon to be worn on a set of BDUs… Of course, there are the Scouts, and I’m all in favor of the Scouts. They’re dying out, though. Something needs to replace them. A teen who for whatever reason isn’t on the football team can do something worthy of regard as an SDF auxiliary.

Enough of my political machinations.

Webstral

[HorseSoldier]

I have only had very limited experience with the State Defense Forces in the states of Alabama and Alaska.

The Alabama version seemed to be a joke made up of a mix of over the hill retired military guys who might have been pretty squared away 20 years and 50 pounds ago and the sort of wannabes who, in law enforcement circles, tend to think that being a mall cop makes them practically cops. That may be a skewed view -- my only interaction with them was talking to some of them briefly at a Memorial Day PR/recruiting thing they were also at.

I may be wrong, but I don't think the AL SDF had any training or authorization to carry weapons, and their activities mostly involved assisting with hurricane/tornado relief and custodial activities at armories when units deploy.

Up here in Alaska, the AK SDF is apparently a more serious organization that I'm told gets weapons training and its members are sworn constables so that they can provide a more credible support to the National Guard operating under state authority or Alaska law enforcement. Apparently they're pretty serious about their bearing arms -- one member sat in on my current unit's Javelin NETT training. All that said, the only mission I've heard about them doing is the same armory custodial one. Despite the LE credentials I'm pretty certain (coming at the topic from both the Guard and LE side of things) that they don't do any of the Counter Drug stuff that some members of the 'Guard do, at least not in the Anchorage area.

In a T2K context, I would think that any existing State Defense Forces on the books, plus whatever rear detachment deployed National Guard (and local Army/Air Force/USMC/USN Reserve units, eventually) would end up forming the backbone of militia companies and battalions. The quality of those forces is probably dubious at best, given the limited resources and desperation of the times they'd be stood up, and I don't expect that many that were pushed very hard would last, at least not without some operational seasoning. Any that are still on the books by 2000 might be reputable forces (or might not).

[Webstral]

I agree that quality of the State Guards would be dubious at best. I have written the existence of an Arizona State Guard (AZSTAG) into my history of Arizona. They don't do very well, despite an urgent Johnny-come-lately effort to make them credible. 2nd Brigade, which covers metro Phoenix, falls apart when things get tough in 1998. 1st Brigade, which covers the northern 2/3 of the state, remains in being through 2001 largely by absorbing police and de-federalized troops who make the escape from the Phoenix debacle.

The one AZSTAG formation that does pretty well is 3rd Brigade. Though a brigade in name only in 1998, the formation has a lot of retired senior NCOs who passed through Fort Huachuca and Davis-Monthan AFB en route to retirement. These guys form a fairly solid kernel that keeps the formation in existence through the dark days.

The New Mexico State Guard also survives into 2001, although in very truncated form. The state government at Santa Fe controls a few thousand civilians and a few hundred modern-day dragoons. These guys are the remnants of the New Mexico State Guard, which was otherwise wiped out during the fighting in the south or disintegrated at Albuquerque.

Webstral

[Legbreaker]

So in the US, Guards are essentially little more than wannabes with time on their hands or emergency volunteers who may carry weapons?

That's a completely foreign concept over here in Australia. We have organisations such as the SES (State Emergency Service) which respond to car accidents, floods, lost hikers and the like, volunteer fire fighters (Rural Fire Service being one such group) and various charity groups that are involved in community work (Lions, Rotary, Returned Services League, etc), but nothing that I can think of like the description of the US Guards.

Can somebody shed more light on what they're actually for and what they can and can't do?

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

So in the US, Guards are essentially little more than wannabes with time on their hands or emergency volunteers who may carry weapons?
Can somebody shed more light on what they're actually for and what they can and can't do?

That's about what I've heard about the Ohio State Guard, but I may be confusing them with the Unorganized Militia. I'm told the SG is authorized 4 MP battalions, but I've not heard much more about them. They are supposed to be the Governor's troops to call up if/when the Guard is called up. The Unorganized Militia is a constitutional holdover from the musket days, and every able-bodied male in the state is considered a member.

There is an Ohio Naval Militia, but all I've heard about them is that they keep ships and boaters away from Camp Perry during the shooting events. The shooting ranges apparently have their backstops against Lake Erie, thus the desire to keep beery fishermen from getting shot by strays.

If the governor is serious about working on-- and funding-- "his" guard between mobilization (presumably some time in 1996-97) and the TDM, they might turn out to be credible crowd-control forces. Otherwise, yuck.

[Webstral]

In a nutshell, State Guards (I’m going to call them SDF from this point forward to help distinguish them from the National Guard) are the military forces of the various states that comprise the United States. Before the National Guard acquired its federal role, each state’s National Guard units were the military forces of each state. Large-scale mobilizations, such as for WW2, led to the realization among the states that they had lost their sovereign military forces (state militia) when the National Guard was turned into a joint state-federal reserve with the feds holding the trump card. The SDF arose to fill the gap.

So what is the SDF? In a nutshell, the SDF is the National Guard sans a federal mission and federal funding. Technically, the Department of Defense oversees the SDF of the various states. In practice, the states operate their SDF pretty much as they see fit. When mobilized, the SDF possess all of the powers of the National Guard within their respective states. Theoretically, the SDF can respond to security crises, natural disasters, and the like in the same fashion as the National Guard.

Except in a handful of locations, the SDF are rather a joke. No one gets paid, unless they are mobilized by the state.[1] All funding comes from the state, which effectively means that there is no funding. SDF members supply their own uniforms and most of their own equipment. In theory, there are height and weight standards, physical fitness standards, and so forth. In practice, beggars can’t be choosers.

In the wake of the large-scale mobilizations of National Guard formations in the 2000’s, there is a renewed interest in the SDF. However, interest has not been renewed to the point at which SDF members will be paid to attend weekend drills and a two-week AT. Interest has not been renewed to the point at which SDF members will receive a clothing allowance or an issue of equipment intended for use in their state mission. Without funding, the SDF is simply dead in the water. It’s hard to see where the money is going to come from in this economic climate. Goodness knows that California is not in a position to organize a proper SDF, although by many accounts the CMR is in better shape than most SDF around the country.

Webstral

[1] This does happen occasionally. When my National Guard unit was mobilized 2004, many of the folks who did the admin work for us at Camp Roberts were members of the California Military Reserve, which is the SDF under a different name. They were paid at their given rank and basically treated like National Guardsmen under Title 32, which is the categorization of National Guardsmen mobilized under orders of the state governor. (Title 10 means a National Guardsman has been mobilized under federal orders, at which point they are no longer state forces.)

[Webstral]

I forgot to mention two other combat organizations based on State Defense Forces (SDF). The Vermont State Guard, which pre-existed the Twilight War in the real world, took over local security after the Pentagon federalized and deployed all remaining Vermont National Guard and Army Reserve personnel and equipment in the wake of the Mexican invasion (1998). The VSG still exists in early 2001. Its centerpiece is the Green Jacket Regiment--a play on words referring to the Green Mountains and the sharpshooting Green Jackets of British fame.

Also still in existence is the New Hampshire Military Reserve, which now operates as the Granite Brigade in Manchester. The Pentagon also emptied New Hampshire of its National Guard units in response to the Mexican invasion. The NHMR survived only because the acting governor abandoned the majority of the state and moved everything that could be moved to Manchester.

Massachusetts no longer has anything resembling an SDF or a state government. The same applies to Maine.

Webstral

[Legbreaker]

Yep, absolutely nothing like the SDF here in Australia...
ALL military forces are federal. Any other armed force (beyond the state and federal police) are considered private armies and therefore illegal.

[Adm.Lee]

Newsweek that just arrived today had a brief piece on the Iowa SDF. As 3000 Guardsmen are off to Afghanistan, the state is concerned about flooding.

The state is calling for retired Guardsmen to act as first responders, to guide and inform the remaining Guard if they are needed.

[kalos72]

SDF's are a great idea for the states who can afford them. Takes some of the control the Fed has over them away and gives them a great resource in emergencies.

I wonder if there are any solid SDF's out there today...

[HorseSoldier]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Yep, absolutely nothing like the SDF here in Australia...
ALL military forces are federal. Any other armed force (beyond the state and federal police) are considered private armies and therefore illegal.

In theory, here in the US, the National Guard portion of the reserves is under the control of their home state governor unless federalized, that being a central part of our sort of sloppy, loop-holey federal system here in the US. The idea that a state governor really owns his state's National Guard is really a polite fiction, though -- the federal government foots something like 95% of the bill for equipping and maintaining the Nat'l Guard and what a governor can or can't do with "his" forces is very limited outside of using them for humanitarian missions internal to the US.

So the reality maybe isn't that different from Australia, really.

The SDF's are an attempt to get around the strings that come with all that federal money, but no state if willing to fund them enough to make them even a modestly credible light infantry force (I'm certain that the police force of any moderately sized American city deploys more combat power than any SDF, for instance). Even in those states where SDFs are allowed arms, they're probably better considered a reserve/adjunct to the state police than a military force. (I think -- as noted above, my personal experience with these groups is limited.)