Intresting Facts about 1980s Soviet Equipment

[dragoon500ly]

Soviet Tanks

Soviet tanks are often discribed as being very simple to operate and maintain. For all of their simplicity, however, Soviet tanks have often been superior to those used by the US and its allies. For example, Soviet tanks outgun NATO tanks by at least 10mm; in the 1940s 85mm vs 76mm, 100mm vs 90mm or 84mm in the 1950s, 115mm vs 105mm in the 1960s, and 125mm vs 105mm in the 1970s. Larger caliber guns give high velocity and better armor penetration.

However, other factors undercut the Soviet armament advantage, including fewer rounds stored, primitive optics, low rate of fire and inferior ammunition.

Until the appearance of the T-64/72, the NATO superiority in optics and fire control was a tremendous advantage in combat. Not only did this mean that NATO would hit their targets more often, it often meant that NATO tanks would get the first shot in.

There are three types of rangefinders used on tanks: the stadia reticle (the range finder is incorporated in the gunner's sight, primary method used in WWII); the stereo coincidence (this range finder has the commander lay on target and then superimpose two images into one, the mirrors project on either side of the turret and provide the base for a calculation as to range, used in the 1950s-1970s); and the final type is the laser rangefinder (which projects an invisible beam towards a target and reads the elapsed time for the beam to be reflected back to the rangefinder). The following chart shows the average accuracy of each type:

Rangefinder (Range) 500m 1,000m 2,000m

Laser 98% 86% 34%
Stero Coincidence 97% 70% 14%
Stadia Reticle 98% 35% 4%

As you can see, at short ranges there is very little difference in the performance of the various systems, since short range is also the range where armor is most vulnerable to penetration, the advantage goes to the crew that gets the first shot off. At longer ranges, the differences become more marked, this is the reason why NATO crews are trained to engage at long range and why Soviet doctrine stresses closeing and engaging enemy armor as quickly as possible.

Because of their small size, Soviet tanks carry less ammunition than NATO tanks. Due to this, the Soviets are much more dependent upon the second echelon bringing up reserve ammunition to a much higher degree than NATO. This difference was felt by the Syrian T-55s in the 1973 War when many of their tanks were running out of ammunition by the second day, while Israeli Centurions still had adequate supplies of main gun ammunition onboard.

The turrets of NATO tanks often rotate at a much higher rate than a Soviet tank. For example, a M-60A1 tank rotates at 24 degrees per second, the T-55/T-62 rotates at 17 degrees per second.

The lightness of Soviet tanks allows them to use bridges impassable to NATO tanks.

Soviet tanks have much more effective NBC systems than NATO tanks.

Soviet tank engines also take much longer to remove and change out than NATO Tanks. An M-60A1 engine pack can be remove within 30 minutes, a T-62 can take up to 2 hours.

Compared to NATO designs, Soviet tanks have much better cross-country mobility. This is due to their lightweight and high horsepower to weight ratio.

The human engineering of Soviet tanks is widely acknowledged to be inferior, as is their mechanical reliability. T-62s average a breakdown every 160-200km while a M-60A1 averages a breakdown every 240-320km.

The small dimensions of Soviet tanks reduces their vulnerability by presenting a smaller target and allows greater strategic mobility by allowing the use of railway rolling stonck that the larger NATO tanks cannot use. A smaller tank also allows the use of positions that larger tanks cannot use. But the Soviets pay for this advantage with a cramped and vulnerable interior, and, more importantly, the low silhouette limits gun depression to 4 degrees sd opposed to the 10+ degrees of NATO tanks. This forces Soviet tanks to expose much more of their hull than NATO tanks when firing from defilade positions.

[dragoon500ly]

Came across this intresting bit of info.

The SA-2 Guideline has been the premier Soviet SAM since its introduction in 1957. Its greatest moment of fame was on May 1, 1960 when it downed Francis Powers U-2, proving the ability of the SAM to strike even the highest flying aircraft....

Or did it?

During the India-Pakistani 1965 War, the Indians fired an unnumber of SA-2s but only damaged one Pakistani aircraft. The threat of the SA-2s, however, reduced the accuracy and effectiveness of the Pakistani air strikes.

The Eqyptians fired 22 SA-2s during the 1967 War. All missed and the Israelis captured one SA-2 battery.

The SA-2 was used most intensively in the Vietnam War. Its accuracy rate (as a percentage of missiles fired yielding kills) was:

1965: 194 fired, 11 kills = 5.7% accuracy
1966: 1,096 fired, 31 kills = 2.8% accuracy
1967: 3,202 fired, 56 kills = 1.75% accuracy
1968 (Jan-Mar): 322 fired, 3 kills = 0.9% accuracy
1972: 4,244 fired, 49 kills = 1.15% accuracy

Overall: 9,058 SA-2s were fired, resulting in 150 aircraft shotdown. A rather poor 1.7% accuracy.

The SA-3 Goa was also used in the Vietnam War and it is known that at least one F-4 Phantom was shot down. There is no exact infomation as to how many Goas were fired or how many US aircraft fell victim.

The SA-4 Ganef has never served outside the USSR. It is believed that this is due to its secondary role as a SSM (similar to the US Nike-Hercules).

The SA-6 Gainful saw combat service in the 1973 Arab-Israeli War. It shot down large numbers of Israeli aircraft within the first two hours of the war due to technological surprise. The Israelis had developed effective countermeasures against the SA-2 and SA-3 missiles. The SA-6 replaced the "flying telegraph pole" with a highly manoeuvrable, low-altitude capability coupled with terminal radar guidance. Once the surprise wore off, the Israelis rapidly developed countermeasures and the effectiveness of the SA-6 wore off. The Israelis claimed that 1,100 SA-6s were fired for 20 kills, an accuracy rate of 1.8%. Egyptian and Syrian claims are that 840 SA-6s were fired for 20 kills, a 2.3% accuracy rating.

The SA-7 Grail first saw use in the 1967 Arab-Israeli War and in Vietnam in 1972. Its initial accuracy was very high, a 33% accuracy rating being achieved against US gunships and transport helicopters. The SA-7 also shot down several slow-moving aircraft such as O-2Es, A-1s and C-130s, which were then forced to operate above 6,000ft. After this step was taken and the surprise wore off, SA-7 effectiveness wore off. Many SA-7s were observed to porpoise and miss. During the 1973 War, some 4,356 SA-7s were fired, with very disappointing results: two Israeli aircraft were definitely destroyed, four were possibles, 28 suffered tailplane damge and were out of action for a few hours, and 12 suffered engine damage and were grounded for a few days. This results in a accuracy rating of 0.05% for confirmed destruction and 0.1% if the possibles are added in.

From our previous examples, a total of 14,537 SAMs were fired, resulting in the loss of 172 aircraft. The accuracy of SAMs is 1.2% These are pretty low to hit odds! The typical AA gun requires the firing of 8,500 rounds per aircraft kill, or to kill 172 aircraft would require the firing of 1,462,000 rounds. This is an accuracy rating of 0.0001176%!!!

[dragoon500ly]

To say that the Soviets love artillery is sort of like saying that Gene Simmons is a shameless self promoter. Over 15% of the Red Army wears the red piping of Artillery. The weapons themselves are greatly improved and their numbers have doubled since 1968. Artillery is the backbone of any Soviet action.

This is a listing of the equipment:

MORTARS
Mortars are simple and effective, the give Soviet infantry their own jacket-pocket artillery, available when and where they are needed and can go anywhere an infantryman or a pack animal can go. Mortar bombs, with their thin casings, large explosive charges and plunging trajectories are more effective than howitzer shells, even if the mortars lack the range and accuracy of howitzers. The Soviets use four different mortars:

The M-1937 82mm mortar can be found in the airborne and naval infantry battalions. It weighs in at 56kg in firing condition, has a maximum rate of fire of up to 25rpm. Its minimum range is 100m and it has a maximum range of 3,040m. It can fire HE (3.05kg) and WP (3.41kg) rounds.

The M-1943 120mm mortar is the standard weapon of the motor rifle battalion (6 tubes per battalion). In firing position, it weighs 274.8kg and has a maximum rate of fire of up to 15rpm. Its minimum range is 460m and its maximum range is 5,700km. It can fire HE (15.4kg) and WP (16.7kg).

The M-1953 160mm mortar is normally seen in either the artillery division or in front-level heavy artillery brigades. In firing position, it weighs 1,300kg and has a maximum rate of fire of 3rpm. Its minimum range is 750m and its maximum range is 8,040m. It can fire HE (41.5kg) and WP (43.5kg).

The M-1952 240mm mortar, like the M-1953, is normally seen in either the artillery division or in front-level heavy artillery brigades. In firing position, it weighs 3,610kg and it has a maximum rate of fire of 1rpm. Its minimum range is 1,500m and its maximum range of 9,700m. It fires a HE bomb weighing 100kg.

[dragoon500ly]

During the T2000 time frame, the Soviet Artillery would equip the front-line Category I and II divisions.

M-1969 76.2mm Mountain Gun. Approximately eight motor rifle divisions are equipped with this piece, in place of the normal 122mm howitzers. This is a lightweight piece, weighing in at 815kg and able to be disassembled into nine loads. It has a maximum range of 11,000m and can fire HE and HEAT ammunition. It requires a crew of 6.

D-30 122mm Howitzer. This is the standard divisional and regimental howitzer. Introduced in 1967 it replaced the M-30 and other World War II pieces. It is a highly successful design, combining simplicity and ruggedness with effectiveness. While it lacks the range and destructive power of the NATO 155mm howitzers, the Soviets believe that deploying the D-30 further forward than NATO doctrine requires will negate the range advantage and that the numbers of these weapons made possible by their simplicity and ease of production will compensate for any individual limitations. Quantity has a quality all its own. The D-30 weighs in at 3,150kg in its firing position. It has a maximum rate of fire of 8rpm (sustained rate of 4rpm) and a maximum range of 15,300m. It can fire HE (21.8kg), HEAT (14.1kg), Smoke (22.4kg), Illum (22.4kg) and Chemical (22.4kg) rounds. It uses a 7 man crew. Basic Load for the D-30 is 80 rounds broken down into 64 HE, 12 smoke and 4 HEAT.

D-74 122mm Gun. This is found in the heavy artillery regiment of some Category II and III divisions. It weighs in at 5,568kg in firing position. Has a maximum rate of fire of 7rpm (sustained is 3rpm), and a maximum range of 24,000m. It can fire HE (27.5kg), APHE (25kg), Smoke (21.7kg), Illum (21.7kg) and Chem (21.7kg). Basic Load for the D-74 is 80 rounds broken down into 64 HE, 12 Smoke and 4 APHE.

D-20 152mm Gun-Howitzer. This is the standard heavy howitzer, equipping the army-level artillery brigades and artillery divisions. Introduced in 1955 and now being replaced by the 152mm SP howitzer. It weighs 5,650kg in firing position. It has a maximum rate of fire of 6rpm; a sustained rate of fire of 2rpm. The maximum range is 18,500m. It can fire HE (43.6kg), APHE (48.8kg), Smoke (52kg), Illum (52kg) and Chem (52kg). Basic Load is 60 rounds broken down into 48 HE, 9 Smoke and 3 APHE.

M-46 130mm Field Gun. Introduced in 1954, the M-46 is organic to each artillery division and a battalion is in each army-level artillery brigade. Often assigned to counterbattery missions due to its long range and accuracy. In firing position, it weighs 7,700kg. Maximum rate of fire is 6rpm; sustained is 3rpm. It has a maximum range of 27,500m. It fires HE (33.4kg), APHE (33.6kg), and Illum (25.8kg). The Basic Load is 70 rounds broken down into 65 HE and 5 APHE.

[pmulcahy11b]

When the Soviets shot down Francis Gary Powers' U-2, they did it by ripple-firing all of their SA-2s at that site, without having a solid lock-on, and hoped that one of them would get a lock just long enough to guide the missile. It was basically a lucky shot. It only damaged one of the horizontal stabilizers, but the U-2 is such a tricky plane to fly (especially back then) that even that small amount of damage was enough to tear the stabilizer off and bring the plane down.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

When the Soviets shot down Francis Gary Powers' U-2, they did it by ripple-firing all of their SA-2s at that site, without having a solid lock-on, and hoped that one of them would get a lock just long enough to guide the missile. It was basically a lucky shot. It only damaged one of the horizontal stabilizers, but the U-2 is such a tricky plane to fly (especially back then) that even that small amount of damage was enough to tear the stabilizer off and bring the plane down.

True, but that shot, coupled with some creative reporting by Tass, is what made the reputation of the SA-2.

I was going through some old manuals and found this block of info on missile accuracy, thought it would be intresting to post.

[dragoon500ly]

Here is some info on the main guns of various Soviet Tanks...

The D-10T2S is the 100mm armament of the T-55, the T-54 used an earlier version.

Caliber Length: 56cal

Rate of Fire: 4rpm

Effective Range:
APHE = 1,080m
HEAT = 900m
HVAPDS = 1,200m

Ammuntion Type:
BM-6 HVAPDS
BR-412D APHE
BK-5M HEAT
OF-412 Frag-HE
D-412 Smoke

Muzzle Velocity:
HVAPDS = 1,415m/sec
APHE = 916m/sec
HEAT = 900m/sec
Frag-HE = 900m/sec

Ammunition Load:
T-55 = 43 rounds broken down as 23 HVAPDS, 3 HEAT, 17 Frag-HE
T-54 = 34 rounds broken down as 11 APHE, 3 HEAT, 20 Frag-HE

Hit Probability:
ammunition 500m 1000m 1500m 2000m
APHE 90% 50% 33% 8%
HEAT 84% 43% 25% 2%

Armor Penetration:
ammunition 500m 1000m 1500m 2000m
APHE 155mm 135mm 117mm 100mm
HVAPDS 264mm 237mm
HEAT 380mm at all ranges

[dragoon500ly]

The T-62 was a ground breaking design when it was introduced in 1961. The first tank to field a smoothbore cannon, it was the "bogy man" of NATO tank forces through the 1973 Arab-Israeli War. The Israelis use all the captured machines that they did not sell to the US Army. They criticize its poor human engineering, the inacurracy of its gun at long ranges and the lack of gun depression. The approve of its light weight and consider its armor protection, coupled with its low silhouette to be adequate. No less a figure than General "Bren" Adan, the Israeli Armor Corps commander considers the U-5TS cannon to be superior to the NATO standard L7A1 105mm cannon.

The U-5TS 115mm smoothbore cannon

Caliber Length: 55cal

Rate of Fire: 4rpm

Effective Range:
HVAPFSDS = 1,500m
HEAT = 1,200m
Frag-HE = 1,500m

Ammunition Types:
BR-5 HVAPFSDS
BK-4M HEAT
OF-18 Frag-HE (Light HE)
OF-11 Frag-HE (Heavy HE)

Muzzle Velocity:
HVAPFSDS = 1,614m/sec
HEAT = 1,000m/sec
Light HE =780m/sec
Heavy HE = 750m/sec

Ammunition Load:
40 rounds broken down into 14 HVAPFSDS, 7 HEAT, 19 Frag-HE

Hit Probability
ammunition 500m 1000m 1500m 2000m
HVAPFSDS 98% 79% 50% 27%
HEAT 89% 69% 33% 11%

Armor Penetration
ammunition 500m 1000m 1500m 2000m
HVAPFSDS 350mm 300mm 285mm 270mm
HEAT 432mm at all ranges

[dragoon500ly]

The T-64 entered service in 1973, with the T-72 entering service in 1975. While the two tanks are technically similar and operational identical, they are two distinct vehicles. It is believed that the tanks were developed in parallel by two separate design bureaux. The dating of the material in FM-100 does not cover the vehicles captured during Desert Storm, the following information reflects what was known to NATO during the 1980s...

Main Gun: 125mm smoothbore, believed to be a development of the U-5TS

Rate of Fire: 4rpm

Rate of Fire (manual): 2rpm

Effective Range:
HVAPCFSDS = 2,000m
HEAT = 1,200m
Frag-HE = 1,500m

Ammunition Types:
HVAPCFSDS
HEAT
Frag-HE

Ammunition Load:
40 rounds (28 rounds carried in the auto-loader); broken down as
12 HVAPCFSDS, 6 HEAT, 22 Frag-HE

Hit Probability
ammunition 500m 1000m 1500m 2000m
HVAPCFSDS 98% 94% 80% 60%

Armor Penetration
ammunition 500m 1000m 1500m 2000m
HVAPCFSDS 450mm 425mm 400mm 375mm
HEAT 475mm at all ranges

[dragoon500ly]

First introduced in 1967, the BMP is considered to be one of the most significant vehicles of the 20th Century. It is the first infantry combat vehicle to mount cannon, ATGM and a rifle squad.
It is misleading to compare the BMP with NATO APCs/IFVs. Not only does the BMP mount heavier armament, but the squad fights mounted more often than dismounted.
The BMPs baptism of fire came in the 1973 Arab-Israeli War and was a utter diaster. The Syrian usage of the BMP is blamed by both sides for the BMP losses.

Main Gun: 2A20 73mm smoothbore cannon

Caliber Lenght: 19cal

Rate of Fire: 4rpm

Effective Range: 800m

Ammunition Types:
HEAT
HE

Muzzle Velocity:
HEAT = 665m/sec
HE = 400m/sec

Ammuntion Load: 40 rounds, broken down as 18 HEAT, 22 HE

Hit Probability:
ammunition 500m 1000m 1300m
HEAT 64% 40% 28%

Armor Penetration: HEAT will penetrate 400mm at all ranges.

[Raellus]

AFAIK, the T-64 was never exported so the U.S. did not capture any during Desert Storm. I'm not sure if any have been acquired since. Perhaps one or two were purchased from one of the former Soviet republics for intel purposes? T-72's, on the other hand, were captured by the Israelis in the Lebanon invasion of '82 and I'm sure intel gleened from them was passed along to the U.S. well before we captured our own T-72s during Desert Storm.

Also, Dragoon, what's your source for all of this info? If you're reposting from someone else's published material, you may get dinged for copyright infringement. If this is original material, kudos to you.

[dragoon500ly]

Still in the process of getting this material together, the primary source is the FM100 series on Warsaw Pact Equipment, as well as material from the Armor Journal. I'm going though several other sources, trying to cull data that can be confirmed by at least two other sources...

[dragoon500ly]

To the best of my knowledge, the T-64 has only been issued to Red Army units. The T-72 has been sold to Warsaw Pact and is the export of choice.

The purpose of this thread is to show what equipment was being used by the Red Army in the 1980-1990 time frame and to show that information based on what NATO knew at the time.

[Legbreaker]

Which I think is a very fine aim!
Although today we know (or at least strongly believe) the Soviet equipment of the time was woefully inadequate, T2K is built on the assumptions and information of the day.
The PACT armies were expected to steamroll over NATO defences, using superior numbers of tanks, APCs and especially artillery rather than technology. Sure one on one the Soviet tanks, etc are not up to scratch, but for what they were designed for, they were quite adequate.

The 1991 Gulf War is extremely misleading in my opinion as the Iraqi's were not adhering to the Soviet doctrine of attack, but rather dug in defensively (and most importantly stationary and in relatively low numbers) and unable to close to short range where their guns might have been effective. Of course the allied air superiority didn't much help their situation much.

Overall the Iraqi's were in a completely different league to what NATO would have faced in Europe, even if they did feild similar equipment and employ similar doctrines.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Overall the Iraqi's were in a completely different league to what NATO would have faced in Europe, even if they did feild similar equipment and employ similar doctrines.

I could not agree more. The constant slagging the Russian armed (I deliberately did not use the name Soviet) forces gets based on its woeful performance in Afghanistan and the first Chechnyan war and the poor performance of Soviet-made war material in the first Gulf War prompted me to write this apologetic:

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=897

[Dog 6]

good work dragoon !

[dragoon500ly]

One of the things that always impressed me about the Soviets was their belief in never throwing any weapon system away. As long as reservists were still around who had trained on it, they kept the weapon around. While many decry this as a waste of resources, it really is a very efficient use of resources, after all, many of these weapons are still effective, they have been used by tens of thousands of reservists, and its that much less production capacity tied down with building new weapons. So here we go!

M-1943 152mm Howitzer. The standard Soviet divisional heavy artillery piece from WWII. In the firing position, it weighs 3,600kg. It has a maximum rate of fire of 4rpm and a sustained rate of fire of 2rpm. Maximum range is 12,400m. Ammunition consists of HE (39.9kg), SAP (51.1kg), Chem, Smoke and Illum. The SAP round can penetrate up to 82mm of armor at 1,000m. Crew is 7 men. Unit of Fire is 60 rounds broken down as 48 HE, 9 Smoke and 3 SAP.

S-23 180mm gun. This weapon dates back to 1955. All indications are that it is in service with some artillery divisions. In the firing postion it weighs 20,400kg. It has a maximum rate of fire of 1rpm and a sustained rate of fire of 1 rd per 2 min. Maximum range is 30,400m with HE and 43,800m with RAP. Ammunition consists of HE (84.09kg), HE/RAP (97.7kg), and 0.2kt nuclear. Crew is 15 men. Unit of Fire is 40 rounds, broken down as 30 HE, 10 HE/RAP.

M-1938 (M-30) 122mm howitzer. A simple rugged design that has seen use as recently as the Vietnam War. It weighs 2,500kg in firing position. It has a maximum rate of fire of 6rpm and a sustained rate of fire of 3rpm. Maximum range is 11,800m. Ammunition consists of HE (21.8kg), HEAT (14.8kg), Smoke (22.4kg), Illum (21kg) and a propaganda leaflet shell (21.5kg). Crew consists of 8 men. Unit of Fire is 80 rounds, broken down as 62 HE, 6 HEAT, 12 smoke.

M-1937 (A-19) 122mm Field Gun. This is a army-level counterbattery piece. It weighs 7,117kg in firing position. Maximum rate of fire is 6rpm and sustained rate of fire is 3rpm. Maximum range is 20,800m. Ammunition consists of HE (25.5kg), APHE (25kg), Smoke (25.7kg), Chem and Illum. The crew consists of 8 men. Unit of fire is 80 rounds, broken down as 65 HE and 15 Smoke.

M-1937 (ML-20) 152mm Gun-Howitzer. Weighing 7,128kg in firing position. Maximum rate of fire is 4rpm and the sustained rate of fire is 2rpm. Maximum range is 17,265m. Ammunition consists of HE (43.6kg), APHE (48.8kg), Chem, Illum, Smoke. Crew consists of 10 men. Unit of Fire is 60 rounds, broken down as 45 HE, 5 APHE, 10 Smoke.

[HorseSoldier]

The 1991 Gulf War is extremely misleading in my opinion as the Iraqi's were not adhering to the Soviet doctrine of attack, but rather dug in defensively (and most importantly stationary and in relatively low numbers) and unable to close to short range where their guns might have been effective. Of course the allied air superiority didn't much help their situation much.

Definite agreement. Even with some very real gaps in quality and capability against NATO, a conventional slugging match in central Europe against people who had well developed doctrine and clear plans to get them to the Rhine or English Channel would have been a whole different animal than the '91 Gulf War.

[dragoon500ly]

There is a joke from a Russian military magazine that goes along the lines of...

It is after World War III has ended and two Russian tank generals met on the streets of Paris. After exchanging greetings, one asks the other if he has heard who has won the Air War. The second general shrugs and answers that he didn't know as the Air Forces were still fighting.

The Soviets recognize that air power is important, but their current doctrine stress that, at best, the skies will be neutral, neither side holding air superiority. Because of the threat from the air, the Soviets organize their air defense by four guiding principles:

Mass: Antiaircraft Artillery (AAA) and surface to air missiles (SAM) are provided at all levels of command and on a scale greater than any other military.

Mix: This is achieved by the issue of complementary weapons systems, the different types providing air defense in spite of countermeasures reducing the efectiveness of any single system.

Mobility: This is intregal to the designs themselves, even static systems such as the SA-2 and SA-3 can be moved to new positions within four hours.

Integration: Air defense forces are integrated throughout the Red Army from forward area SAM brigades to the platoon's SA-7 launcher.

While the Soviets have a strong ADA doctrine, they realize that if attacking aircraft have the determination to press on, take their losses and attack their targets, all ADA can do is to make it more costly, more difficult and more time-consuming for the attacker to accomplish his mission. They don;t have to destroy enemy aircraft, all they need to do is reduce the effectiveness of enemy aircraft for the first, crucial days of the war.

By 1972, Hanoi was defended by 6,000 AAA guns (three times the number that defended Berlin), supplemented by 156 SA-2 launchers with stockpiles large enough to enable the firing of 100 missiles simultaneously. This mass of ADA was still not enough to prevent US aircraft from breaking their barrier and bombing the targets in Hanoi. It took five days to do so and it required that 50% of the US sorties flown be for air defense suppression. Thats half of all air attacks being delivered on emplaced defences and not being used on more productive targets.

In the long run, modern aircraft with effective ECM and creative tactics can defeat the Soviet air defense system. The Soviet concept of the short, victorious war is intended to deprive NATO of that long run.

The PVO-Strany (Soviet Air Defence of the Motherland) still fields large numbers of antiaircraft guns of the 130mm, 100mm and 85mm variety. Although these are being phased out and replaced by SAMs, they are still in reserve stockpiles, ready for use.

KS-30 130mm AA gun. Weighs 24,900kg in firing position. Sustained rate of fire is 12rpm. Max Altitude is 22,000m and effective range is 16,500m. It can throw a Frag-HE round weighing in at 22.4kg. Crew requirement is 11 men.

KS-19M2 100mm AA Gun. In the firing position, it weighs 11,000kg. Rate of fire is 20rpm. Max Altitude is 14,500m and the effective range is 11,900m. Its Frag-HE round weighs 15.7kg and it requires a crew of 9 men.

KS-18 85mm AA Gun. Weighs 4,986kg in firing order. Rate of fire is 20rpm. Max altitude is 12,300m and effective range is 8,380m. Its Frag-HE round weighs 9.75kg. Crew requirement is 7 men.

S-60 57mm AA Gun. Weighs 4,600kg in firing order. Rate of fire is 70rpm. Maximum altitude is 8,800m and effective range is 4,000m (optical control) or 6,000m (radar control). Its HEI round weighs 2.8kg. It requires a crew of 7 men and it has a basic load of 200 rounds in 4-round clips.

ZSU-57-2 SP AA Gun. A modified T-54 chassis that mounts two S-60 guns provided with optical fire control. A outdated design that is being replaced with SAMs. Considered to be a failure as a design due to inadequate sights. Mostly sold to various Third World countries.

M-39 37mm AA Gun. Weighs 2,100kg in firing order. Rate of fire is 80rpm. Maximum altitude is 6,000m and effective range is 3,000m. Its Frag-HE round weighs 0.74kg. It requires a crew of 8 men. Its ammuniton comes in 5-round clips and two can be held in the weapon at any time. It has a basic load of 400 rounds. Experience in Vietnam shows that it needs up to 3 37mm hits to destroy an F-4 Phantom.

ZU-23-2 AA Gun. A towed mount with dual AZP-23 cannons. It weighs 893kg in firing position. Rate of fire is 200rpm per barrel. Maximum altitude is 5,100m and effective range is 2,500m. Its HEI round weighs 0.19kg, it also comes with a API round weighing 0.19kg. Ammunition is via a box magazine holding a 50-round belt, usually loaded with one round of API for every three HEI. Crew requirement is 5 men. Basic Load is 600 rounds.

ZU-23-4 SP AA Gun. The standard AA weapon of the Red Army, each regiment has a AA platoon of four of these weapons. The vehicle (a development of the PT-76 tank) weighs 14,000kg. Has a road speed of 45km/h, a road range of 260km. It mounts 2 dual AZP-23 cannon mounts and carries a basic load of 2,000 rounds. Crew is 4. It also mounts a "Gun Dish" radar for fire-control. The Gun Dish is stablized and the "Zoo" can fire on the move, but with degraded accuracy. The Gun Dish is also fitted with a moving target indicator which assists in picking out aircraft from non-moving backgrounds, such as chaff, jamming and ground clutter. During the 1973 Arab-Israeli War, Zoos were responsible for the destruction of 30 Israeli aircraft, lost in making low level attacks on Arab units or when driven into the Zoos engagement zone while evading SA-6s, a perfect example of the principle of mix. The 23mm round is not very lethal, requiring an average of 16 hits to destroy a F-4 Phantom.

ZPU-4, ZPU-2, ZPU-1 AA Guns. These are respectively, the quad, twin and single mounts of the basic KPV 14.5mm heavy machine gun. The ZPU-4 weighs 1,810kg in firing position. Rate of fire is 150rpm per barrel. Maximum altitude is 5,000m and effective range is 1,400m. Ammunition is API and HEI (0.065kg). Crew is 5 men. The machine gun is fed from a 150 round belt in a drum magazine. Unit of fire is 4,800 rounds. The ZPU is considered to be a very effective weapon. The larger weapons are cumbersome, and easier to spot and destroy, so much so that many experts consider the ZPU to be far more deadly than the Zoo. The ZPU can be dismantled and man-packed, permitting effective antiaircraft ambushes to be set up.

[dragoon500ly]

Here is a question for you,

What is the size of a standard Red Army Tank Platoon?

Is it 3 tanks?

Or is it 4 tanks?

Or is it 5 tanks?






The answer is....

All of the above.

The three tank platoon is the standard size for tank regiments in the tank division and for most Category I and all Category II and III tank regiments of the motor rifle division.

The four tank platoon is the standard size for the tank regiment of a Category I motor rifle division, especially the ones stationed in East Germany and Czechoslovakia.

The five tank platoon is only found in the independent tank battalion/regiment of a motor rifle division or front.

[HorseSoldier]

I'd heard of the four tank platoons, but not the five tank platoons. Did those platoons still comprise three platoon companies?

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

I'd heard of the four tank platoons, but not the five tank platoons. Did those platoons still comprise three platoon companies?

Yup. And to confuse things even more, the independent tank battalion has between 4-5 companies. The independent tank regiments have between 4-6 companies.

[dragoon500ly]

Here is an example of Soviet tactics...

You are the Division Commander of a Motor Rifle Division, its Day 2 of the great offensive to crush NATO and this is the situation you are facing.

One of your BTR regiments is on the left flank. It is attacking an American Mech Infantry Task Frorce and has suffered crippling losses. The regiment has suffered 40% losses, including the regimental commander and two of the battalion commanders. Your Intelligence Officer reports that the Americans are showing signs of counterattacking in this sector. The regiment can no longer maintain the offensive.

Your second BTR regiment is attacking in the center. The American Mech Infantry Task Force has suffered heavy losses and is failing back to its next defensive line. Your regiment has suffered 20% losses, but is advancing.

Your BMP regiment is on the right and is currently fighting elements of a West German Panzer Brigade. It is a confused situation, but the regiment is holding its ground.

In reserve, you have your tank regiment, your recon battalion, and your division artillery group.

All three regimental commanders are requesting reinforcements.

So what do you do?



There are four basic answers, reinforce the left, reinforce the center, reinforce the right or break up the reserve and reinforce two or more regiments.

From a Soviet prespective there is only one correct answer. The entire reserve goes to reinforce the center. Indeed, the left and right flank regiments can expect to have any attachments as well as any unengaged units stripped from their command and moved to reinforce the center.

Soviet doctrine stresses that the advance must be maintained at all costs. The intent is to force NATO to react to Soviet movement, they realize that by maintaining the offense, that NATO would be forced to curtail its own offensive in order to reinforce the threatened sector.

[Webstral]

The Soviet military philosophy is perfectly serviceable, provided one can meet the operating conditions. The concept of seizing and holding the initiative is hardly a new one; one might say that the Germans reinforced the value of the practice in 1941 and 1942, while the Soviets turned the lesson around thereafter. Still, the uncompromising emphasis the Soviets placed on maintaining the impetus of offensive operations is noteworthy. If time is the enemy’s ally, then the only winning solution is to bring the operation to a conclusion as quickly as possible.

One reason the Soviets laid such a heavy emphasis on ground-based air defense is that they were at a disadvantage in the air. The Soviets understood that sheer numbers of aircraft were a poor match for the Western technical superiority, superior ground support, and pilot initiative. After the initial surge of high-tempo operations, the West would have a sortie advantage—effectively giving the West a quantitative as well as a qualitative advantage. Since the operation might outlast the surge, it was important to prevent the West from winning the war by default.

Another reason for the Soviet emphasis on ground-based air defense is their orientation towards battlefield support as the principal role of air power. While the Soviets moved beyond a straightforward battlefield role for their air power by the mid-1970’s, the emphasis never really went away. They were keenly aware of how roughly their own Il-2 fleet had handled the Germans. Ground-based air defenses would give Army commanders some means of offsetting a major opposing force effort to establish air superiority over a given sector of the front (like wherever offensive was going well) if the SAF dropped the ball.


Webstral

[Legbreaker]

I think the GDW writers were aware of the effects of unequal air power which may be why they've stated in the history that the German air power was completely trounced by an unexpectedly better performing PACT.
May not mirror what would have happened in reality, but it's just one more small part that's needed to bring about the stalemate we see in 2000.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I think the GDW writers were aware of the effects of unequal air power which may be why they've stated in the history that the German air power was completely trounced by an unexpectedly better performing PACT.
May not mirror what would have happened in reality, but it's just one more small part that's needed to bring about the stalemate we see in 2000.

If you compare the W. German AF right before the fall of the Soviet Bloc with what the Red Air Force was rolling out at that time and then factor in the next 6-8 years of the T2K timeline/alternate universe, it's plenty realistic.

F-4 Phantoms and F-104 Starfighters (and maybe a few East German MiG-29s and a handful of Eurofighter Typhoons) vs. superior numbers of Red Air Force MiG-29/31 and Su-27 Flankers?

USSR for the win.

Only way the Germans win that fight is with massive NATO assistance.

If the fight is in the air over the former East Germany, ground-based ADNs wouldn't really be much of a factor. They'd be in disarray after the W. German coup/departure of Soviet technicians/operators. Over Poland, the PACT has the advantage of the ADN there. And remember that Red Air Force pilots have a couple of years combat experience spanking Chinese Shenyangs and "New Lend-Lease" F-whatevers.

[dragoon500ly]

Now that we've talked about basic weapons, its time to plug it in and see how it is supposed to be used...

The Motor Rifle Division has two Motor Rifle Regiments equipped with BTR-60 armored personnel carriers, here is how its formed:

Rifle Squad:9 men; a Squad Leader/BTR commander (AK74), a BTR Driver/Mechanic (PM), a BTR Machine Gunner (AK74), Squad Machine Gunner (RPK74), a Grenadier (RPG-16, PM), a Senior Rifleman (AK74), a Rifleman/Assistant Grenadier (AK74), and two Rifleman (AK74). Total Weapons: BTR-60, 6 AK74s, 2 PMs, RPK74, RPG16. You will note that the BTR-60 has room for 11 men, but only 9 personel.

Rifle Platoon: 1 officer, 28 men; formed up with three Rifle Squads and a
Platoon Headquarters: 2 men; Platoon Leader (PM), Assistant Platoon Leader (PM). Total Weapons: 3 BTR-60, 7 PM, 19 AK74, 3 RPK74, 1 SVD, 3 RPG16. With 3 BTRs there are a total of 6 empty seats, these are normally filled by the PL, the APL, and a medic and SA-7 gunner attached from higher. There is no assigned sniper in the platoon, in spite of a SVD being assigned, it is assigned to a squad, as needed.

Rifle Company: 6 officers, 97 men; formed up with three Rifle Platoons and a
Company Headquarters: Company Commander (PM), Deputy Commander/Political Officer (PM), Senior Technician Warrant Officer (PM), First Sergeant (AK74), BTR Driver/Mechanic (PM), BTR Machine Gunner (AK74).
Weapons Squad: 7 men; Squad Leader (AK74), 2xGrenadiers (AGS17, PM ea), Senior Rifleman (AK74), 2xAssistant Grenadiers/Riflemen (AK74), BTR Driver/Mechanic (PM).
Antiaircraft Missile Squad: 3 men; Squad Leader/SA7 Gunner and 2 SA7 Gunners (SA7, PM ea)
Total Weapons for the company: 31 PM, 63 AK74, 9 RPK74, 3 SVD, 2 AGS17, 9 RPG16, 3 SA7 and 11 BTR-60.

Motor Rifle Battalion: 455 men; formed up with three Rifle Companies and a
Battalion Headquarters: 12 men armed with 4 PM, 8 AK74, 1 BTR-60PU, 1 UAZ-469, 1 GAZ-66 light truck.
Mortar Battery: 62 men armed with 14 PM, 47 AK74, 6 M1943 120mm mortars, 6 RPG16, 1 UAZ-469, 7 GAZ-66 light trucks.
Antitank Platoon: 27 men armed with 13 PM, 14 AK74, 4 AT4, 2 SPG9, 2 RPG16 and 4 BTR-60
Communications Platoon: 14 men armed with 1 PM, 13 AK74, 2 BTR ACV, 1 UAZ-469, 1 GAZ-66 light truck
Supply Platoon: 20 men armed with 1 PM, 19 AK74, 4 GAZ-55 light trucks, 4 ZIL/Ural medium trucks, 2 POL tankers, 1 Field Kitchen truck, 1 POL trailer, 1 Cargo trailer, 1 water trailer, 3 Field Kitchen trailers.
Repair Workshop: 7 men armed with 7 PM, 1 ZIL maintenance truck, 1 generator trailer.
Medical Aid Station: 4 men armed with 4 PM, 1 Ambulance, 1 Cargo trailer.

The Motor Rifle Regiment has 2,315 men and is made up of 3 MR Battalions and a...
Regimental Headquarters: 65 men armed with 3 SA7, 2 BTR-60, 1 BTR-60PA (FAC), 3 UAZ-469, 1 Ural 375 medium truck, 3 ZIL Command trucks, 1 GAZ-24 Sedan
Tank Battalion: 165 men armed with 40 T-64 MBT, 2 RPG16, 2 BTR-60 ACV, 7 ZIL/Ural medium trucks, 3 POL tankers, 2 ZIL Maintenance trucks, 1 Field Kitchen truck, 1 Ambulance, 9 Cargo trailers, 1 Generator trailer, 1 Water trailer.
Howitzer Battalion: 240 men armed with 18 D-30 towed 122mm howitzers, 18 RPG16, 18 RPK74, 1 BTR-60 ACV, 1 PRP3 AMRP, 1 UAZ-469, 12 GAZ-66 light trucks, 34 ZIL/Ural medium trucks, 2 POL tankers, 3 ZIL maintenance trucks, 1 Ambulance, 11 Cargo trailers, 2 POL trailers, 1 Water trailer, 4 Field Kitchen trailers
Antiaircraft Missile & Artillery Battery: 60 men with 4 SA9 TEL, 4 ZSU-23-4, 3 BTR-60, 2 GAZ-66 light trucks, 4 ZIL/Ural medium trucks, 2 Generator trailers.
Antitank Missile Battery: 40 men with 9 BRDM-2 w/AT5, 9 RPG16, 3 ZIL/Ural medium trucks, 1 ATGM Simulator van
Recon Company: 55 men with 4 RPG16, 3 RPK74, 1 BMP ACV, 3 BMP-1, 4 BRDM-2, 3 Motorcycles
Engineer Company: 60 men armed with 4 RPG16, 3 BTR-60, 1 UAZ-469, 8 ZIL/Ural medium trucks, 2 Dump trucks, 1 Zil Maintenance truck, 1 K61 Crane truck, 2 E-305V Shovel Cranes, 1 MTU AVLB, 4 TMM truck-launched bridges, 1 BTM ditching machine, 1 BAT dozer, 3 BTU dozer blades, 3 PZM Excavator Buckets, 3 PMR-3 towed minelayers, 9 KMT-4 mineclearing plows, 3 KMT-5M mineroller plows, 1 MAFS water filtration trailer, 2 Cargo trailers
Signal Company: 50 men armed with 3 BTR-60, 5 UAZ-469, 3 GAZ-66 light trucks, 3 GAZ signal trucks, 2 ZIL signal trucks, 3 motorcycles, 1 generator trailer
Chemical Defense Company: 35 men armed with 1 UAZ-469, 1 GAZ-66 light truck, 4 BRDM-2rkh, 2 DKV decon trucks, 3 ARS12 decon trucks, 1 DDA53 decon truck, 2 Cargo trailers, 4 Water trailers
Motor Transport Company: 70 men armed with 1 UAZ-469, 2 GAZ-66 light trucks, 40 ZIL/Ural medium trucks, 1 ZIL Maintenance truck, 3 Water tankers, 15 POL tankers, 30 Cargo trailers, 15 POL trailers
Maintenance Company: 65 men armed with 4 RPG16, 1 UAZ-469, 2 ZIL/Ural medium trucks, 12 ZIL maintenace trucks, 3 ARV, 6 Cargo trailers, 3 Generator trailers
Medical Company: 25 men armed with 1 GAZ-66 light truck, 2 ZIL medium trucks, 1 DDA53 decon truck, 4 Ambulances, 1 Field Kitchen trailer, 1 Water trailer
Supply & Service Platoon: 20 men armed with 2 GAZ-66 light trucks, 1 UAZ-469, 5 Ural medium trucks, 1 Field Kitchen truck, 1 Water tanker, 1 Cargo trailer, 2 Field Kitchen trailers, 1 Water trailer, 1 Generator trailer.

So here is the gross info for a typical Motor Rifle Regiment (BTR):
40 T-64 MBT; 18 D-30 122mm towed howitzers; 18 M-1943 120mm mortars; 4 SA-9 TEL; 4 ZSU-23-4; 30 SA-7; 9 BRDM-2 w/AT-5; 12 AT-4; 6 SPG-9; 146 RPG-16; 18 AGS-17; 102 RPK-74; 22 BTR-60PU; 1 BMP ACV; 116 BTR-60; 1 BTR-60PA (FAC); 1 PMP-3 AMRP; 4 BRDM-2; 3 BMP-1; 24 UAZ-469; 66 GAZ-66 light trucks; 118 ZIL/Ural medium trucks; 3 ZIL Command trucks; 2 ZIL Signal trucks; 20 ZIL Maintenance trucks; 5 Field Kitchen trucks; 1 ATGM Simulator truck; 26 POL tankers; 3 ARS-12 Decon trucks; 2 DKV Decon trucks; 2 DDA-53 Decon trucks; 4 BRDM-2rkh; 4 Water tankers; 9 Ambulances; 1 K-61 Crane truck; 2 E-305V Shovel Crane trucks; 2 Dump trucks; 1 GAZ-24 Sedan; 6 Motorcycles; 3 Armored Recovery Vehicles; 1 MTU AVLB; 4 TMM Truck-launched bridges; 1 BTM Ditching machine; 1 BAT Dozer; 3 BTU dozer blades; 3 PZM Bucket Excavators; 9 KMT-4 mineclearing plows; 3 KMT-5M mineroller plows; 3 PMR-3 towed minelayers; 1 MAFS water filtration trailer; 20 POL trailers; 67 Cargo trailers; 11 Generator trailers; 11 Water trailers; 16 Field Kitchen Trailers.

Well as you can see, its a @$^%&%@ lot of equipment!