Twilight:2020

[Panther Al]

While back I was flipping through the various books and bemoaning the lack of some of the newer stuff out there: P90's, CV90's, and various other items. Then I recalled the little fracus in Georgia (the country) and it got me to thinking. This could be a new POD for a newer timeline including all those neat guns and tanks we all know and love. Has anyone else (other than 2013) played with a new timeline like this and based it off of the V2.2 rules?

[Panther Al]

Doing some serious thread necromancy.. <<<zombie thread!!!>>>

Did some more thinking on the whole idea, and basing off of the odds and sods I have been able to play over the past few years, and some back and forth here and via PM with various members, I present the latest rough - very rough - draft of the concepts behind the idea. So here I present some rough notes on the lead up. By all means point things out, make comments, point and laugh, whatever...


Twilight 2020 timeline rough notes.

War starts in 2016. TDM happens thanksgiving 2017. 2018 is mostly static, as military units wind up focusing on securing their positions, limited goal offenses to secure and shorten their lines. 2019 gets back to the game, summer season last season of ‘traditional’ offenses as supply reserves get milked dry.

In 2014 buildup to war begins, primarily due to Russian aggression in the region of Georgia, but since Georgia managed to join NATO in 2013, it’s avoided being invaded for now, but its position isn’t very good. Georgia uses funds from the remnants of NATO – itself having suffered defections out of the treaty organization, to rearm, mostly with cast off German Equipment that has been upgraded – namely Leopard 1’s and its associated vehicles such as the Gepard, Biber, and the ARV and AEV as well as the Marder APC, also upgraded with a 35mm Cannon that matches the ones mounted on the Gepard. But they are far from the only ones rearming. The NATO nations stop the cuts that have been widespread over the past 4 years, and start to quietly spend money on existing equipment to bring them all up to snuff while funding development of newer items. Non Aligned countries perhaps are the biggest buyers in the rearming market, and with US and Russian factories being used to supply themselves and key allies, it’s the secondary arms countries: Germany, Sweden, the UK, and Israel who become the arms factories to the world. Naturally enough, its these countries who recover the fastest from the lingering aftereffects of the great recession, being that they tend to sell military equipment to anyone that has money in hand and isn’t totally against the west. Its China that makes its big play, selling its arms to everyone that can’t afford western gear or who the west doesn’t want to sell to. Russia and the US isn’t out of the market, but they are dwarfed by the efforts of the other big 5 sellers.


The Baltics by and large have become the exclusive market for the Swedish Arms industry, led by their CV90 family, though the Germans own the Tank market here as well as nearly in toto throughout Europe. The exception to that proves to be Romania who went French in a big way. The UK proves to be popular in the Middle East, with Israel proving to be a surprise at selling remarkable numbers of Merkava’s here and there throughout the world (the biggest surprise was one that shocked the Germans to no end: When Denmark looked to form an armored Battalion everyone thought they was going back to Leopards, but they wound up buying Merkava IV’s) but their sales focus more on small arms, aircraft upgrades, and electronics. Israel’s F16I Sufa upgrade becomes very popular by most users of the F16 after the Israeli airstrikes on Iranian Nuclear targets, and in a way, gives the airframe a new lease on life by increasing the orders for new production

In the US, the 2012 Elections prove to be a surprise to many, That while some pundits felt that Obama would lose, the surprise was that an independent and not a republican managed to win election for the first time, mostly by courting those that felt that neither party had any interest in the quiet majority – and the fact that he proved to throw the old political conventions out the window (The first debate that President Eaton was in had to be tape delayed to clean up his language). This sincerity, and his background (A former Cavalry Sergeant that came from nowhere, and only was able to make a run in the first place was due to buying the right lottery ticket – he was fulfilling the dreams of most Americans, and they loved him for it) allowed him to get just enough support in the right places to squeak into victory. Once there he had a mess on his hands: He didn’t have a lot of support from either party, but his popularity, and pragmatic ability to make a deal allowed his first two years to go well for him. With the recovery of the international marketplace, and the corresponding increase in revenues, he was able to push back against the weakening of the military, but only a little at first. One of the things that got a lot of attention, both bad and good depending on who was asked, was the fact that he stuck more than just a thumb into army: He pushed hard, and made enough of a pain of himself that a deal was struck between the Army brass and him that he would get his ACR’s back the way he felt was best (At this point Swedish workers building CV90’s became very very big fans of him) and he would back off a lot. And for the most part he kept his deal: The naming of the M73 was one way the brass made sure of it. With the buildups starting in late 13, and primarily 2014, the economy really started ticking, first by exports, and then as the situation overseas started getting really dicey, the military started beefing up in a big way (For the most part, by the time 2016 rolled along and the war started the Stryker was primarily relegated to equipping ANG and USAR units, with only 3 Stryker Brigades left on active service – though these was made of the more capable Stryker III), and this resurgent manufacturing dragged the economy far enough up that he won his reelection campaign, though it was far closer than the first. Its this rebuilding of the US Military that keeps US industry from being as heavily invested in the international arms market as they would hope, though they are present.

With the exception of the ACR’s (By the time the war started there was 5, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 11th, and the 14th) the mix of armoured vehicles in the US Army wasn’t much different that in 2010: Bradleys and Abrams are the mainstays, though all the Brads both in service and in storage have been upgraded to A3’s at the least, and all the M1’s have been given both the A2SEP upgrade as well as the TUSK kit modifications. Only the Marines still uses the M1A1, though they have been upgraded with all the features of the SEP save for the CITV. The real big change to what those who looked back to the first decade of the millennium saw in the makeup of the army was the one of the times where the President stepped - if not over the line, real close to it - over the unofficial deal with the military. In 2014, The US Air Force once more started its perennial efforts to cease its CAS functions by removing the A10 from service. While this time the case was stronger than usual as the airframe was getting more than a little long in the tooth, it was felt as a violation of the Key West Accords. In an effort to cease the bickering and such that was causing no end of trouble for everyone, the president signed an executive order saying that the US Air Force was no longer responsible for CAS - And that the Army was. In addition, to support the new role Army Aviation had to handle, all A-10's, and all supporting elements was transferred to US Army Control. Once more, the Army had fixed wing aviation - and given a budget boost to support it. The rearming of the Army was finally well along by the time President Eaton's second term was finished - the rebuilt ACR's with the heavy emphasis on commonality of supply from ammo to bolts was showing to be as good, if not better, than Eaton said it would, and even the generals had to agree that some of the lessons learned in the ACR's could be adopted throughout the army - which led to problems once the war began and logistics began to fall apart. Trying to supply the right ammo at times became a serious problem: only thing that saved many units was supply officers who made sure that uppers in the old calibre (5.56) was tucked away instead of scrapped as they was replaced with the 6.8 uppers.

[copeab]

The thread title made me think it was a cross between Twilight 2000 and Cybperpunk 2020

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by copeab

The thread title made me think it was a cross between Twilight 2000 and Cybperpunk 2020

If you chose the "all night, every night and your partner will never know the difference" opition....I'm calling in a orbital strike on your location!

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

If you chose the "all night, every night and your partner will never know the difference" opition....I'm calling in a orbital strike on your location!

Happy memories.

Had a full body borg outfitted as a hooker. Male and female bodies for full customer satifaction (the third hermathrodite body never got built unfortunately.

I bankrolled our team with that set up and did a sideline in covert runs using a spider. My humanity was crap but it was worth it.

[dragoon500ly]

It was a fun game!

[pmulcahy11b]

What were the differences between our present Strikers, Striker II, and Striker III (in your timeline)?

[95th Rifleman]

hmm British army 2020 could be interesting. With all the military cuts it'd be a bare bones, but experienced force but too small to be a decisive political player.

perfect for small scale games

[James Langham]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

hmm British army 2020 could be interesting. With all the military cuts it'd be a bare bones, but experienced force but too small to be a decisive political player.

perfect for small scale games

Depends if the cuts happen.

A few random thoughts about the army:

* will it move towards lighter troops as it has or keep with more mechanised? Depends a lot on what happens in the world.

* if the US had changed to 6.8mm what rifle are we likely to use, I can see a whole new design being favoured. SA80s may still be around for TA though.

* we might have our first aircraft to fly off a carrier by then...

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by James Langham

Depends if the cuts happen.

A few random thoughts about the army:

* will it move towards lighter troops as it has or keep with more mechanised? Depends a lot on what happens in the world.

* if the US had changed to 6.8mm what rifle are we likely to use, I can see a whole new design being favoured. SA80s may still be around for TA though.

* we might have our first aircraft to fly off a carrier by then...

Right now what I have penciled in that due to the slow buildup of tension throughout the world the UK does increase spending to a point: both sheduled carriers are built and they squeak out a third a few months before the UK gets the first heavy strikes (more on why there was three later - in short the RN gets the bulk of the funding). The results is that that the manpower is only slightly increased, but become perhaps the best equipped and trained force man for man of any NATO force. The switch to 6.8 was never finished: and it was the US that was the push for it. The rest of NATO stayed with 5.56 (tempted to say the Brits made a total switch but havn't decided yet one way or the other). In the US the switch was being done by swapping uppers on the AR platform as well as building SAWs in 6.8. And as to the last point is that the f35 never got off the ground in a big way. With the increased spending for the RN they decided not to wait for the over time over budget aircraft and decided to go with the Super Hornet (so tempted to do a model of one in RN colours.).


More to come

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

What were the differences between our present Strikers, Striker II, and Striker III (in your timeline)?

I think I might have goofed by labeling it Stryker III: I know there is a program underway now to improve the protection level of the Stryker (V Hull for example) and other minor improvements. I thought there was a intermediate version, but it appears I was mistaken.

In general, to give an idea of my base level of assumptions for the timeline is that the Great Recession was as bad is it is. However, complications due to the troubles in Georgia meant that defense spending slightly increased in 2008 around the world. As 2012 arrived, outside of the US, the attitudes of those in positions of power was somewhat along the lines of "We don't think anything is gonna happen, but I don't feel good about it.." when it came to thinking of what to do about the defense budgets. After Georgia settled down (It was a little rougher that it was IRL) the UK MoD decided to place its CV program on a get it done now mentality - it didn't hurt that over in Germany an odd reaction to Afghanistan happened: A press headline of "Die Soldaten Waren Noch Nicht Fertig" turned into a mild scandal at first (And a massive embarrassment since the idea of the German Army being the new joke around the world did not sit all to well) , and turned into a surprisingly widespread support for the reformation of the German Army back to where it was during the Cold War: Well trained, and massively re-equiped, all so that the difficulties that the Army was facing overseas would not happen again. Of course, this couldn't be ignored by others, since many in europe (Especially when the German Economy recovered quite nicely faster than the rest of europe) saw a danger in that, and started the great buildups of 2008-2012. Over in the Pacific things was not so rosey as well: In this case the Spratly's was the centre of the troubles. With Chine taking a much harder line than it has in the Real World, a lot of emphasis was placed on contingency planning for operations in the Pacific. Not only in the US: This is the reason the RN wound up getting the lions share of the increased funding in the UK as well, in order to support commonwealth nations who did not have the ability or the resources to do so themselves (The Ark Royal, having reaching operational status in early 2012, for example was more or less home ported in Perth.). As far the UK's army was concerned, while the Gaurds units wound up going heavy in a big way, the bulk of the British Army could be best described as medium to light in nature: more of a reaction force than a warfighting army. Come 2014, the buildups renewed in a big way: the common thread was "I hope nothing happens, I don't think it will, but I am not going to bet anything on that." 2015 led to heightened tensions worldwide as China started flexing its rebuilt navy in a very very big way. It had managed to put 3 carriers at sea (All more or less along the lines of the old Invincible's) and was really pushing things hard over the resources present in the Spratly's. However, by this time they was not the only fleet in the area: Between a minor presence of India, a major Presence of the US and Royal Navies, you had Japan as well. Perhaps the most amazing thing about 2015, is that while there was a *lot* of sabre rattling going on, nothing happened more than a few warning shots here and there. But it was a distraction. One that Russia - also using Oil revenues to help itself out) took full advantage of. And than changed the winter of 2015-2016 from one of "Phew, we ducked that bullet" to one of, "Where did that MG come from?"

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by James Langham

Depends if the cuts happen.

A few random thoughts about the army:

* will it move towards lighter troops as it has or keep with more mechanised? Depends a lot on what happens in the world.

* if the US had changed to 6.8mm what rifle are we likely to use, I can see a whole new design being favoured. SA80s may still be around for TA though.

* we might have our first aircraft to fly off a carrier by then...

Can't see the L85A2 going any time soon, not after all the money spent fixing it (we even bought out H&K). In all honesty the A2 is a great weapon and with the newer kit and upgrades for it (AG36 launcher, the new Trijicon combined reflex/ACOG) it'll do well for a few decades yet.

The British have always been slow to adopt new technologies, especialy rifles.

[LBraden]

One bloody good reason for that..

Why the fuck spend 30 rounds in the sky when 2 rounds in the chest will do the job more effectively.

Though, honestly, as myself, who has shot the L1A1, L85A2, M16 / M14, P-90, F2000 and the G-36, I find it to be a reasonable weapon, I prefer its stability over the M16 family, though as a leftie, I prefer the F2000, though I can fire right handed.

And yes, I did get to fire a Gimpy, but I do not suggest trying to hold onto it when you have some bat-shit insane Sgt. Maj. of the RMC doing off road driving, you will get cut.