Favorite T2K-era ATGM

[Raellus]

If you found yourself deep behind enemy lines late in the Twilight world, which ATGM system would you prefer to be stuck with?

[bobcat]

hellfires.
mostly cause that would imply i got air coverage which means a way out. so yeah hellfires.

[Panther Al]

Milan for me, the things grow on trees in europe it seems, easy to find on both sides of the line.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by bobcat

hellfires.
mostly cause that would imply i got air coverage which means a way out. so yeah hellfires.

I like your outside-the-box thinking, Bobcat. I should have been more clear but I meant a system that you and your crew would be using/operating yourselves. And besides, c.2000, there would be very little, if any, air cover available.

I picked the Javelin. It's portability, fire-and-forget capability, and dual attack modes make it the best all-around ATGM available, IMHO.

[Panther Al]

Ah, if you want the best it would be the jav, but my understanding was considering your line of supply is iffy at best.


Besides, only the swedes have a man portable hellfire system. Granted its aimed at the anti-shipping role, but still... I don't know what happened but the swedes have become one of the bigger players in innovative weapons design and use these past few decades.

[pmulcahy11b]

I picked the Javelin, but the Dragon is my baby and what I'm most familiar with.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Besides, only the swedes have a man portable hellfire system. Granted its aimed at the anti-shipping role, but still... I don't know what happened but the swedes have become one of the bigger players in innovative weapons design and use these past few decades.

It doesn't have to be a man-portable system, per se- it could also be vehicle mounted. There are a couple of vehicle-mounted Hellfire systems in the v1.0 U.S. Army Vehicle Guide and that's why I included it on the list.

Basically, think about starting off in a Battle of Kalisz type scenario somewhere in the Twilight World, c.2000. Which ATGM system would you take? That's how I should have phrased the question originally.

[Panther Al]

Then I stand by the MILAN- the damn things grow on trees in europe so it won't be too hard to find. Besides, the at4 (russian) is a direct, near perfect copy of the MILAN, they stole not only the plans but some manufacturing equipment from Italy back in the day. Some say, but I'm not sure I believe it, that the AT4 missile can be used by the MILAN launcher and vice versa. If, and I do say if, that's true, then its a no brainer.

[Dog 6]

I voted for Hellfire. very long range and able to kill anything.

[Abbott Shaull]

I picked the Hellfire even though supplies will be depleted quickly.

[Matt Wiser]

Javelin. But an honorable mention should go to the AT-7; resupply from the enemy after a fight is always a resupply option, or ambushing a convoy and finding some reloads in the ammo truck(s) is another.

[Panther Al]

Hrm, went looking to see if the AT4 and MILAN are interchangeable and struck out, but came across something more interesting. The russian 9k113 (AT5) manportable launcher stand just got bumped up in my list. It not only can launch the AT5 as well as its new generation replacement the AT14 with a kit, but also is rated to launch the AT4 and MILAN IIT.

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I like your outside-the-box thinking, Bobcat. I should have been more clear but I meant a system that you and your crew would be using/operating yourselves. And besides, c.2000, there would be very little, if any, air cover available.

I picked the Javelin. It's portability, fire-and-forget capability, and dual attack modes make it the best all-around ATGM available, IMHO.

that would mean im in the helicopter...
...with a way out. so yeah still hellfires.
(but im not a fan of ATGM's anyway. gimme a block of C4 and a few spares from a junk still and i can destroy any tank you got.)

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Then I stand by the MILAN- the damn things grow on trees in europe so it won't be too hard to find. Besides, the at4 (russian) is a direct, near perfect copy of the MILAN, they stole not only the plans but some manufacturing equipment from Italy back in the day. Some say, but I'm not sure I believe it, that the AT4 missile can be used by the MILAN launcher and vice versa. If, and I do say if, that's true, then its a no brainer.

The Milan and AT-4 are not technically interchangeable, but the Indians (or was it the Pakistanis?) have a launcher which can fire both of them.

[Abbott Shaull]

The one thing there always seems to be enough until you really ready need to use them, and then one finds out that not enough of the weapon systems were made.....

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

The Milan and AT-4 are not technically interchangeable, but the Indians (or was it the Pakistanis?) have a launcher which can fire both of them.

Paul,

I think that was India. They bought Konkurs from the Soviet Union, but these are being phased out for a locally-built licenced MILAN. So while I can't specifically find a reference to interoperability it would make a lot of sense to at least use up any of their old inventory of the earlier missiles.

Aside from your site, there are a few specific references relating to the "Flame V" kit produced by either Germany/France and/or India to allow the BMP-2 system to launch the MILAN. I'm not sure if this would allow for dismounted firing, although I can't see why not. Presumably this kit was manufactured for non-Russians like the Indians who have both BMPs and MILANs in their inventories. It would make sense that this kit would also exist in T2K.

Bharat Dynamics Limited [of India], which also builds the MILAN 2 under licence, has developed with Euromissile the Flame-V and Flame-G adaptor kits (qv entry this section under India) to allow the MILAN 2 to be fired from the 9P135 series firing posts of the Russian Federation and Associated States (CIS) 9K113 Konkurs missile system.

http://"http://www.pakdef.info/pakmi...gm/milan.html"



Tony

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Basically, think about starting off in a Battle of Kalisz type scenario somewhere in the Twilight World, c.2000. Which ATGM system would you take? That's how I should have phrased the question originally.

I picked the Milan. However, when behind enemy lines, you use whatever comes to hand once the ready supply of ammo is expended...

[Fusilier]

I picked the Milan. I like its capabilities vs its portability.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I said Tankbreaker/Javelin; they're just as common as anything else (well, "common" not in the c/r sense...), although I can definitely see the advantages of Milan.

Also: No love for the Dragon? :P

[Raellus]

I thought the Tankbreaker/Javelin would run away with this one. I wouldn't want to have to sit still and hold the crosshairs on an enemy AFV after announcing my presence with a big ol' backblast. Wire-guided, schmire-guided.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I thought the Tankbreaker/Javelin would run away with this one. I wouldn't want to have to sit still and hold the crosshairs on an enemy AFV after announcing my presence with a big ol' backblast. Wire-guided, schmire-guided.

Exactly; gimme Tankbreaker/Jav any day of the week. Pull the trigger, quietly run away

[Panther Al]

Oh don't get me wrong the jav is max goodness with little suckage, but what suckage that the jav has is huge: namely, you better hope that you got a minute or two before you have to fire it. Assuming, for the moment, the temp of the air is, oh, 80 degrees F, the time between when the clu is flipped on till when you can actually use it is about 30 seconds, and the hotter it gets the longer it takes. Seen jav take almost two minutes to cool down before it could be fired over in Iraq, so, in my mind, that is a downside to it. Again, this being said, once cooled down its 100% pure awesome.