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#1
02-12-2011, 09:41 AM
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British reserve forces during world war 3
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 So here it is a discussion point for everyone to display their thoughts and their opinion on British reserve forces, namely the Territorial Army, Home service force and Regular reserve. There is also the Royal Naval reserve, the RAF reserve and the Royal marines reserve, however I am unsure of the numbers of these in 1989. The British army reserve amounts to some 305,000 men in 1989, 86,000 territorials, and 5,000 home service force and 153,000 regular reserve. The conventional defensive NATO vs. Warsaw Pact scenario planned by the British army made extensive use of the reserve forces. 2nd infantry Division used to reinforce British 1 Corps communications lines was made up of 2 T.A infantry Brigades. Plus it was assumed many missing gaps in personnel numbers in the regular armoured divisions would be brought up to War establishment by the regular reserve. However, the twilight scenario is different: NATO goes on the offensive. 2nd infantry Division becomes 2nd armoured division, BOAR is reinforced with the 5th armoured division and a 6th infantry division is used in the Far East. Along with a Light Brigade in the Middle East, Britain’s forces are spread all over the world yet the mention of the reserves is barely there. Canon does note that the reserves are called up, in early 1995 and that for some reason territorials delegate themselves to town councils. There is a very good TA lineage for the benefit of all at http://www.win.tue.nl/~drenth/BritAr...ge/lineage.pdf. I believe someone posted it on here before.Many thanks to whomever that was. It covers most units that would be around during the cold war. However it does not include the medical units (If Anyone does have an ORBAT for all British medical units prior to options for change, I'd be very interested!) So do you expand the reserve forces? What TA regiments Go rogue in 1997 after the soviet strikes?
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Lieutenant John Chard: If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry point 45 caliber miracle. Colour Sergeant Bourne: And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind. 
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#2
02-12-2011, 12:14 PM
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OK, I will start, this what I came up with:
Army Home Defence Command 39 (South East) Brigade - Shorncliffe, UK
160th (Welsh) Brigade - Brecon, UK
Royal Observer Corps
United Kingdom Warning and Monitoring Organization The United Kingdom Warning and Monitoring Organismic (UKWMO) is a British civilian organization providing the authorities with data about nuclear explosions and forecasts of likely fallout profiles across the country in the event of war. UKWMO Sector Controls
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"You're damn right, I'm gonna be pissed off! I bought that pig at Pink Floyd's yard sale!" Last edited by Canadian Army; 02-23-2011 at 04:48 AM. Reason: Forgot something
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#3
02-12-2011, 01:43 PM
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OK, firstly here's my global British Army (and Royal Marines) orbat as of 01 December 1996 (i.e. after the shooting war starts in Norway but before the UK is involved in Germany). This includes Regular and TA units. I'm still working on a 01 June 2000 version. A few notes / comments 1. Firstly, it is absolutely not canonical. 2. It is still a work in progress and still has a few gaps in it, most noticeably the Royal Signals, both Regular and TA. HSF and UDR are also not listed. 3. The framework is the Tanknet NATO orbat, with a few tweaks of my own. Whilst I've attempted to come up with something based on the Real World British Army orbat of the late 1980's. there are a few fictional formations / units. I have added two TA operational Brigades (44th Parachute and 51st Infantry - IRL 51st Infantry did exist but it was an administrative rather than operational command). 4. I haven't added any additional TA Bns to the real life late 1980's orbat, although am considering it after looking at LouieD's listing of TA Bns that he posted a little while ago. 5. Comments / feedback are most welcome. British Army Worldwide Order of Battle, 01 December 1996 UK Special Forces 21 Special Air Service Regiment (TA) 22 Special Air Service Regiment 23 Special Air Service Regiment (TA) Honourable Artillery Company (TA) Special Boat Service, Royal Marines Commachio Group, Royal Marines SACEUR Reserve 5th Airborne Brigade B Sqn, The Life Guards (Recce) 1st Battalion, Parachute Regiment 2nd Battalion, Parachute Regiment 2nd Battalion, 2nd King Edward VII’s Own Gurkha Rifles 7 Parachute Regiment, Royal Horse Artillery 36 Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers 1. British Army of the Rhine I British Corps Corps Troops 4th Battalion, Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters (TA) 44th Parachute Brigade (TA) 4th Battalion, Parachute Regiment (TA) 10th Battalion, Parachute Regiment (TA) 15th Battalion, Parachute Regiment (TA) Artillery Brigade 5 Heavy Regiment, Royal Artillery 32 Heavy Regiment, Royal Artillery 39 Heavy Regiment, Royal Artillery 50 Missile Regiment, Royal Artillery 8th Battalion, Queen’s Fusiliers (TA) 7 Air Defence Brigade, Royal Artillery 12 Air Defence Regiment, Royal Artillery 22 Air Defence Regiment, Royal Artillery 102 (Ulster) Air Defence Regiment, Royal Artillery (TA) 103 (Lancashire) Air Defence Regiment, Royal Artillery (TA) 105 (Scottish) Air Defence Regiment, Royal Artillery (TA) 29 Engineer Brigade 23 Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers 25 Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers 28 Amphibious Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers 32 Armoured Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers 31 Engineer Brigade The Royal Monmouthshire Royal Engineers (TA) 71 (Scottish) Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers (TA) 72 (Tyne Electrical Engineers) Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers (TA) 73 Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers (TA) 74 (Antrim Artillery) Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers (TA) 75 Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers (TA) 1st Mechanised Brigade 13th / 18th Royal Hussars (Recce; A and D Sqns only) 17th / 21st Lancers (B and D Sqns only) 1st Battalion, Devonshire and Dorset Regiment 1st Battalion, Gloucestershire Regiment 1st Battalion, Wessex Regiment (TA) 26 Field Regiment, Royal Artillery 22 Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers 1st Armoured Division Queen’s Dragoon Guards (Recce) 7th Armoured Brigade Royal Scots Dragoon Guards 2nd Royal Tank Regiment 3rd Battalion, Royal Green Jackets 4th Battalion, Royal Green Jackets (TA) 12th Armoured Brigade 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards 1st Battalion, Royal Irish Rangers 1st Battalion, Royal Green Jackets 22nd Armoured Brigade Queen’s Own Hussars 4th Royal Tank Regiment 1st Battalion, Scots Guards 2nd Battalion, Royal Anglian Regiment Divisional Artillery / Engineers 1 Regiment, Royal Horse Artillery 4 Field Regiment, Royal Artillery 40 Field Regiment, Royal Artillery 21 Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers 3rd Armoured Division 9th / 12th Royal Lancers (Recce) 4th Armoured Brigade 14th / 20th King’s Hussars (Less C Sqn) 15th / 19th King’s Royal Hussars 1st Battalion, Grenadier Guards 6th Armoured Brigade 1st Royal Tank Regiment 1st Battalion, Royal Highland Fusiliers 1st Battalion, Gordon Highlanders 33rd Armoured Brigade Royal Hussars 1st Battalion, Prince of Wales’ Own Regiment of Yorkshire 1st Battalion, Queen’s Lancashire Regiment Divisional Artillery / Engineers 2 Field Regiment, Royal Artillery 19 Field Regiment, Royal Artillery 47 Field Regiment, Royal Artillery 26 Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers 4th Armoured Division 16th / 5th Queen’s Royal Lancers (Recce) 11th Armoured Brigade 3rd Royal Tank Regiment 2nd Battalion, Queen’s Regiment 1st Battalion, Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders 5th Battalion, Queen’s Regiment (TA) 20th Armoured Brigade Blues and Royals 4th / 7th Royal Dragoon Guards 2nd Battalion, Royal Irish Rangers 5th / 8th Battalion, King’s Regiment (TA) 19th Infantry Brigade 1st Battalion, King’s Own Royal Border Regiment 3rd Battalion, Royal Anglian Regiment 2nd Battalion, Light Infantry 51st (Highland) Infantry Brigade (TA) 1st Battalion, 52nd Lowland Volunteers (TA) 1st Battalion, 51st Highland Volunteers (TA) 2nd Battalion, 51st Highland Volunteers (TA) Divisional Artillery / Engineers 3 Regiment, Royal Horse Artillery 45 Field Regiment, Royal Artillery 49 Field Regiment, Royal Artillery 35 Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers 2nd Infantry Division 4th Battalion, Royal Irish Rangers (TA) 5th Battalion, Royal Irish Rangers (TA) 4th Battalion, Queen’s Lancashire Regiment (TA) 24th Airmobile Brigade 1st Battalion, Royal Regiment of Fusiliers 1st Battalion, Black Watch [Note 1] 1st Battalion, Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters 15th Infantry Brigade (TA) Queen’s Own Yeomanry (Recce) 6th Battalion, Royal Regiment of Fusiliers 7th Battalion, Light Infantry 8th Battalion, Light Infantry 1st Battalion, Yorkshire Volunteers 2nd Battalion, Yorkshire Volunteers 49th Infantry Brigade (TA) Royal Yeomanry (Recce) 5th Battalion, Royal Regiment of Fusiliers 5th Battalion, Royal Anglian Regiment 7th Battalion, Royal Anglian Regiment 5th Battalion, Light Infantry 3rd Battalion, Staffordshire Regiment Divisional Artillery / Engineers 27 Field Regiment, Royal Artillery 100 Regiment, Royal Artillery (TA) 101 Regiment, Royal Artillery (TA) 38 Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers Berlin Brigade [2] C Squadron, 14th / 20th King’s Hussars 1st Battalion, King’s Regiment 3rd Battalion, Royal Regiment of Fusiliers 1st Battalion, Duke of Edinburgh’s Royal Regiment 2. United Kingdom Land Forces London District Household Cavalry Mounted Regiment [3] A Sqn, Life Guards [3] 2nd Battalion, Grenadier Guards [3] 1st Battalion, Coldstream Guards [3] 2nd Battalion, Scots Guards [3] 1st Battalion, Welsh Guards [3] 16 Air Defence Regiment, Royal Artillery 104 Air Defence Regiment, Royal Artillery (TA) 101 (London) Engineer Regiment (EOD) (TA) 2nd (South East) Infantry Brigade Duke of Lancaster’s Yeomanry (TA) (Recce) 6th / 7th Battalion, Queen’s Regiment (TA) 5th Battalion, Royal Green Jackets (TA) 42nd (Northwest) Infantry Brigade 3rd Battalion, Light Infantry [4] 4th Battalion, King’s Own Royal Border Regiment (TA) 3rd Battalion, Cheshire Regiment (TA) 43rd (Wessex) Infantry Brigade Royal Wessex Yeomanry (TA) (Recce) 4th Battalion, Devonshire and Dorset Regiment (TA) 2nd Battalion, Wessex Regiment (TA) 6th Battalion, Light Infantry (TA) 52nd (Lowland) Infantry Brigade 1st Battalion, Queen’s Own Highlanders [4] 2nd Battalion, 52nd Lowland Volunteers (TA) 3rd Battalion, 51st Highland Volunteers (TA) 54th (East Anglian) Infantry Brigade Queen’s Own Mercian Yeomanry (TA) (Recce) [4] 6th Battalion, Royal Anglian Regiment (TA) 3rd Battalion, Yorkshire Volunteers (TA) 4th Battalion, Yorkshire Volunteers (TA) 3rd Battalion, Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters (TA) 143rd (West Midlands) Infantry Brigade 2nd Battalion, Royal Regiment of Fusiliers [4] 160th (Welsh) Infantry Brigade 3rd Battalion, Royal Welch Fusiliers (TA) 4th Battalion, Royal Regiment of Wales (TA) Royal Armoured Corps Centre Resident Regiment Queen’s Royal Irish Hussars Infantry Training Centre Resident Battalion A Squadron, 17th / 21st Lancers 1st Battalion, Green Howards (Less C Company) [4] School of Artillery Resident Regiment 14 Regiment, Royal Artillery 30 Engineer Brigade 39 Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers (Air Field Support) 3. Northern Ireland 3rd Infantry Brigade 1st Battalion, Light Infantry [4] 1st Battalion, Staffordshire Regiment [4] 8th Infantry Brigade 3rd Battalion, Queen’s Regiment [4] 1st Battalion, Royal Anglian Regiment [5] 39th Infantry Brigade 2nd Battalion, Coldstream Guards [4] 1st Battalion, Royal Welch Fusiliers [4] 1st Battalion, Queen’s Regiment [6] 4. Overseas Norway UK Contingent, Allied Mobile Force (Land) B Squadron, 13th / 18th Royal Hussars (Recce) 2nd Battalion, Royal Green Jackets 3rd Battalion, Parachute Regiment [7] 5 (Gibraltar 1779 – 1783) Battery, Royal Artillery 3 Commando Brigade, Royal Marines C Squadron, Life Guards (Recce) Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre 40 Commando, Royal Marines [8] 42 Commando, Royal Marines 45 Commando, Royal Marines 1st Battalion, Royal Netherlands Marines Corps 29 Commando Regiment, Royal Artillery 59 Commando Squadron, Royal Engineers Middle East 25th Infantry Brigade C Squadron, 13th / 18th Royal Hussars (Recce) 1st Battalion, King’s Own Scottish Borderers [9] 1st Battalion, 6th Queen Elizabeth’s Own Gurkha Rifles 1st Battalion, 7th Duke of Edinburgh’s Own Gurkha Rifles Cyprus Joint Service Signal Unit (Cyprus) (Operated on behalf of GCHQ) Sovereign Base Area West 1st Battalion, Irish Guards 62 Squadron, Royal Engineers Sovereign Base Area East 3rd Battalion, Royal Regiment of Wales (TA) [10] UN Forces [11] Recce Troop, 17th / 21st Lancers B Company, 1st Battalion, Royal Hampshire Regiment Brunei Jungle Warfare Training Centre 1st Battalion, 10th Princess Mary’s Own Gurkha Rifles Falkland Islands C Company, 1st Battalion, Green Howards Falkland Islands Defence Force Gibraltar 1st Battalion, Duke of Wellington’s Regiment The Royal Gibraltar Regiment (Reserve) Canada C Squadron, 17th / 21st Lancers 1st Battalion, Cheshire Regiment 1st Battalion, Royal Hampshire Regiment (Less B Company) Hong Kong 41 Commando, Royal Marines The Queen’s Gurkha Engineers The Royal Hong Kong Regiment (Volunteers) 48th (Gurkha) Infantry Brigade 1st Battalion, Royal Scots 1st Battalion, 2nd King Edward VII’s Own Gurkha Rifles 2nd Battalion, 6th Queen Elizabeth’s Own Gurkha Rifles 2nd Battalion, 7th Duke of Edinburgh’s Own Gurkha Rifles Notes 1. Withdrawn from roulement tour of Northern Ireland Nov 1996 2. Not subordinate to BAOR 3. Forms part of HMG Special Duties Force in time of War 4. Deploys to Europe as part of 5th Inf Dvn, Summer 1998; NI units withdraw from NI during 1997, to be replaced by UDR Battalions 5. On roulement from 02nd Infantry Brigade; will rejoin 02nd Bde Dec 1996 6. On roulement from 1st Infantry Brigade; transferred to BAOR January 1997 7. Transferred from roulement tour of Northern Ireland to AMF(L) Nov 1996 following withdrawal of Belgian contingent; will transit to Middle East summer 1997 8. Withdrawn from roulement tour of Northern Ireland Oct 1996 9. Transferred from Cyprus Aug 1996; replaced with 3 RRW 10. TA unit with BAOR tasking; deployed to Cyprus Aug 1996 as contingency measure to replace 1 KOSB 11. UN Forces not currently under national command.
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Author of the unofficial and strictly non canon Alternative Survivor’s Guide to the United Kingdom Last edited by Rainbow Six; 02-13-2011 at 10:18 AM. Reason: Fixing Typos
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#4
02-12-2011, 02:04 PM
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3/51st Highland Volunteers - core of Republic of Scotland armed forces 3 Royal Welch Fusiliers - core of Welsh Government forces 4 RRW - suffered heavy casualties during strikes on south Wales; disbanded, personnel split up, some serving with Welsh forces, others have turned marauder / mercenary 3 Cheshire - destroyed in nuclear attacks on Liverpool / Manchester area. Small number of survivors can be found throughout the area in both lawful and unlawful groups. Some personnel have made their way into Wales and are serving with Welsh Govt forces 3 Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters - split up into numerous small lawful and unlawful groups after 1997 nuclear exchanges. One group of several hundred now forms core of Free City of Leicester defence force 3 / 4 Yorks - amalgamated into single Bn; intact, loyal to HMG, based Catterick 4 King's Royal Border - Intact; no longer accepting orders from higher command and serving as local defence force for town of Carlisle. 2/52nd Lowland - Bn split up into numerous small groups after 1997 nuclear exchanges; some personnel incorporated into Republic of Scotland forces, others serving as core of the Border Reivers maruader group 5 Royal Anglian - Intact; no longer accepting orders from higher command and serving as local defence force for city og Norwich 6/7 Queens, 6 LI, 2 Wessex and (most of) 4 D and D - intact, loyal to HMG, based southern England.
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Author of the unofficial and strictly non canon Alternative Survivor’s Guide to the United Kingdom Last edited by Rainbow Six; 02-12-2011 at 02:14 PM.
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#6
02-23-2011, 02:20 PM
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Here's it Sub Units HQ BATUS Resident OPFOR - rotated every year, this is made up either of an armoured regiment or infantry battalion 29 Flight, Army Air Corps - The unit uses unarmed Gazelle helicopters for CASVAC and Command and Control 105 Logistic Support Squadron, Royal Logistic Corps BATUS REME Workshop Given the nature of this unit and German Army Training Establishment Shilo (GATES), I would think that both Germany and the UK would have there Soliders and Vehicles returned as they will need them given there is a war going on. There is Challenger Article that talks about a German-Anglo Unit based the permis that BATUS and GATES were left fullly entacted back in Canada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFB_Shilo Info on GATES http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British..._Unit_Suffield Info on BATUS
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I will not hide. I will not be deterred nor will I be intimidated from my performing my duty, I am a Canadian Soldier.
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#7
02-23-2011, 03:02 PM
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That said, in an attempt to offer a rational reason why they do stay in Canada (per the Challenge article) I suppose one could argue that it might be down to shipping shortages. I'm also partial to the idea that the Anglo German forces in Canada were earmarked to provide a NATO contribution to US forces in Korea and were scheduled to go from Canada straight to Korea until the 1997 nuclear exchanges put paid to that plan. In my T2K World I've opted to follow the canon established in Challenge and leave the Anglo German Brigade in Canada. It does, I suppose, give an interesting option for playing a slightly out of the ordinary PC in a North American campaign.
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Author of the unofficial and strictly non canon Alternative Survivor’s Guide to the United Kingdom
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#8
02-23-2011, 06:37 PM
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One set of units missing from the above lists is the University Air Squadrons- IIRC until the early 90s defence cuts there were 16 of them, with anything from 4 to 10 aircraft each.
The aircraft was the Scottish Aviation Bulldog; as I have mentioned in another thread, there were some exercises carried out using the 'Dog as a low-cost, longish endurance recon and communications aircraft. It could also land in a 100 metre strip (I've seen it done!) so it could conceivably be used for agent insertion/retrieval if no helos were available. The instructors were all serving RAF pilots; maintainance was carried out by civilian contractors. Bases could either be RAF stations, or at civilian airports. The UASs were really training units, aiming to present the RAF with graduates a little better prepared for pilot training; however, at times before and since (and on an opportunity basis when I was a member in the 1980s) more overtly military training was added in. My personal collection was about 100 hours flying (including low-level flying, aerobatics, navigation and some instrument flying); qualifying to basic service standard with the SLR; NBC training including sessions in CS gas chambers; a cross-country skiing and arctic survival course in Norway; and mooning a Soviet spy trawler somewhere in the North Atlantic from the side dome window of a Nimrod! I'm not sure how any of this would translate into game stats or skills, but if you wanted a PC a bit different from the average infantryman or tanker, how about a drafted student, possibly only 19 or so, who has limited military skills, high stats, low rads, and knows where he crashed his Bulldog, when no other aircraft was available?
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#9
02-24-2011, 12:57 PM
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Any way, here is a list of University Royal Naval Units (URNU) and University Air Squadrons. University Royal Naval Units Each URNU has up to four training officers (members of the Royal Naval Reserve) and a dedicated training vessel (an Archer-class P2000 fast patrol boat), but for Twilight 2000 I have them with a mixture of Loyal class and Attacker class Ships.URNU ships are part of the Inshore Training Squadron; with the commander of the Inshore Training Squadronis also Commander URNU. Aberdeen University Royal Naval Unit - HMS Chaser (P282); Attacker class Birmingham University Royal Naval Unit - HMS Loyal Helper (P157); Loyal class Bristol University Royal Naval Unit - HMS Safeguard (P286); Attacker class Cambridge University Royal Naval Unit - HMS Loyal Watcher (P159); Loyal class Glasgow University Royal Naval Unit - HMS Attacker (P281); Attacker class Liverpool University Royal Naval Unit - HMS Striker (P285); Attacker class London University Royal Naval Unit - HMS Hunter (P284); Attacker class Manchester & Salford University Royal Naval Unit - HMS Loyal Mediator (A161); Loyal class Northumbrian University Royal Naval Unit - HMS Loyal Factor (P382); Loyal class Oxford University Royal Naval Unit - HMS Loyal Chancellor (P177); Loyal class Southampton University Royal Naval Unit - HMS Fencer (P283); Attacker class Sussex University Royal Naval Unit - HMS Swift (P287); Attacker class Wales University Royal Naval Unit - HMS Loyal Moderator (P220); Loyal class Yorkshire University Royal Naval Unit - HMS Loyal Proctor (P1771); Loyal class University Air Squadrons Aberdeen University Air Squadron Aberystwyth University Air Squadron Aberdeen, Dundee and St. Andrews University Air Squadron Belfast University Air Squadron Birmingham University Air Squadron Bristol University Air Squadron Cambridge University Air Squadron Cardiff University Air Squadron Derby University Air Squadron Durham University Air Squadron East Lowlands University Air Squadron East Midlands University Air Squadron East of Scotland Universities Air Squadron Edinburgh University Air Squadron Exeter University Air Squadron Glasgow University Air Squadron Hull University Air Squadron Leeds University Air Squadron Liverpool University Air Squadron London University Air Squadron Manchester and Salford Universities Air Squadron Manchester University Air Squadron Northumbrian Universities Air Squadron Nottingham University Air Squadron Oxford University Air Squadron Perth University Air Squadron Queen's University Air Squadron St. Andrews University Air Squadron St. Andrews and Dundee Universities Air Squadron Southampton University Air Squadron Swansea University Air Squadron Universities of Glasgow and Strathclyde Air Squadron University of Birmingham Air Squadron University of Liverpool Air Squadron University of London Air Squadron University of Wales Air Squadron Wales University Air Squadron Wolverhampton University Air Squadron Yatesbury University Air Squadron Yorkshire Universities Air Squadron
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"You're damn right, I'm gonna be pissed off! I bought that pig at Pink Floyd's yard sale!"
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#10
02-26-2011, 05:17 PM
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A few too many UASs there; Glasgow UAS became UGSAS after Strathclyde University was formed; Aberdeen students went to Aberdeen, Dundee and St. Andrews UAS; Northern Ireland's only UAS was Queens' UAS, Perth didn't actually have a university! I'll try and find some of my old records to name all 16 UASs from the 80s. However, that's just me being overly picky- the increase in the number of UK universities in the 1990s could, in a period of increasing tensions, have had a corresponding increase in UAS numbers, to increase the throughflow of students into RAF flying training. Conceivably, the remaining DH Chipmunks then being used by the Air Experience Flights could have been returned to the UASs.
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