The T2K/Merc WIKI

[General Pain]

does it exist?

or do any here know how to make one?

I got the idea from here

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page

[kato13]

I have seriously considered making one.

I was thinking of building something after the DC working group starts releasing their info. Using that as a core I was hoping to build state/county or province/city wiki for the whole T2k world. The biggest concern with any wiki is copyrighted material so hopefully we could avoid that.

If you guys want to give me ideas I can see if it is possible to merge a wiki easily with this forum.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by kato13

The biggest concern with any wiki is copyrighted material so hopefully we could avoid that.

93 Games Studio is the current rights holder for Twilight, yes? They're not unreasonable people in my experience. Or is the copyright for the original T2K timeline still the original authors'?

[Snake Eyes]

93 Games merely has a license from the current owner to develop games. They are not the copyright holder. At least not in my understanding of intellectual property management.

[Rainbow Six]

There's this...not strictly speaking wiki...

http://twilight2000.wikia.com/wiki/Twilight_2000_Wiki

[kato13]

The legal issues are what have totally prevented me from getting serious about this. I believe the work of the DC working group falls into a gray area between "Fair Use" and "Derivative Work". Given the amount of time and research that went into it, it could be considered a totally new work.

That is why i thought it might be a good starting point (if they were gracious enough to let us use it in that way). From my perspective however, it would be safer to call it a post-apocalyptic wiki and not use the names of any named characters, nor any text from any published game source.

My post-apocalyptic community wiki idea came out of my Morrow plans. I wanted to use freely available information like census, agricultural, crime, and business stats as a core. Adding the locations from my mapping database to provide a prewar view of what was near a particular community. I would then leave it up to the wiki users to decide what the post war fate was. Fleshing out any details they wanted to. I still think it is a good, completely legal protected idea. Hopefully something will come of it soon.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes

93 Games merely has a license from the current owner to develop games. They are not the copyright holder. At least not in my understanding of intellectual property management.

Ah, thanks for the explanation. I am a bit lacking in my knowledge of how copyright works.

[Targan]

RDG Marine, one of the regulars at the 93 Games Studio forums (he could be one of us for all I know) has in his sig a link to "The New Twilight 2000 Wiki" followed by the line "Help add to it". Maybe we should talk to him about collaborating rather than starting a new one from scratch? Couldn't hurt eh?

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Targan

RDG Marine, one of the regulars at the 93 Games Studio forums (he could be one of us for all I know) has in his sig a link to "The New Twilight 2000 Wiki" followed by the line "Help add to it". Maybe we should talk to him about collaborating rather than starting a new one from scratch? Couldn't hurt eh?

As it exists already it should of course be looked at. Given it only has 112 articles (and quite a few are 2013 related) if there are any glaring limitations now is also the time to look for other options.

To be honest I don't know that wiki software/company very well, so I cannot say what my opinion is either way.

[chico20854]

I'm all for collaborating with the existing Wiki. I'm tickled pink that they have a link to my page featured prominently (and also one to the Big Book of War! But why not Paul's site?) I won't be able to contribute actively, as the backlog of writing that we've got is overwhelming. To wiki-fy the background information we have would take a massive amount of work - for example, we have over 875 ships and boats in our USN database, and we are still developing histories for most of them.

I'll be working on the Survivor's Guide to the USA all weekend now... good fun!

[kato13]

Originally Posted by chico20854

To wiki-fy the background information we have would take a massive amount of work - for example, we have over 875 ships and boats in our USN database, and we are still developing histories for most of them.

That is another reason I am thinking of building my own wiki. On my local boxes I can manipulate data and populate databases about 20 times faster when compared to submitting them to a wiki which is outside of my control.

If we combine my 3000 county files with your ships and divisions there will be multiple thousands of wiki elements. Even with automation that I can probably script out, it would still be a much more major hassle to put them into an external box.

[General Pain]

Originally Posted by chico20854

I'm all for collaborating with the existing Wiki. I'm tickled pink that they have a link to my page featured prominently (and also one to the Big Book of War! But why not Paul's site?) I won't be able to contribute actively, as the backlog of writing that we've got is overwhelming. To wiki-fy the background information we have would take a massive amount of work - for example, we have over 875 ships and boats in our USN database, and we are still developing histories for most of them.

I'll be working on the Survivor's Guide to the USA all weekend now... good fun!

Ifound it strange too that PAuls or Antennas site was mentioned....

[kato13]

Bumping as this is related to the Fictional Character NPC thread

I have taken a second look at
http://twilight2000.wikia.com/wiki/Twilight_2000_Wiki

Some people really seem to be working on building it. It was at 112 articles 6 weeks ago and is at 242 articles today.

If i were to build a general wiki like this one, by the time I finished this resource would be well established and I would not want to directly compete with them.

I think if people want a general game wiki (all versions) this is probably the best choice for now.

If for some reason either a NPC database or the DC working groups stuff does not mesh with this wiki. I can still build a repository for that information. If it does mesh, I can probably build scripts to place volumes of information from the DC group into the wiki, as no one would want to enter 300 soviet divisions by hand.

I will also look at a way to back up the wiki's information as it appears to be out of a fan's control and i would hate to lose all that data if the controlling corp decides to just pull the plug someday. That was my biggest fear before recommending such a site.

[General Pain]

I think it would be better if the designers on this forum write the new wiki.

The work on the big bok of war can easily be copied over to a wiki.

And it would leave the controll of the wiki to us here.

But someone has to get the ball rolling...'

can anyone explain how to build the wiki ??

[kato13]

Originally Posted by General Pain

I think it would be better if the designers on this forum write the new wiki.

The work on the big bok of war can easily be copied over to a wiki.

And it would leave the controll of the wiki to us here.

But someone has to get the ball rolling...'

can anyone explain how to build the wiki ??

I'm willing to do it but it will take some time.

IMO the software is really a no brainer. Wikipedia's software is free. Many people are comfortable with wikipedia's editing system and it has tons of flexibility.

Bandwidth becomes the next issue. I have lost my two best free hosting options recently and I am not sure I want to overload my home line (which this forum runs on).

If we have both sites (the forum and the wiki) on the same server I should be able to unify the logins easily as there is already software. That may not be a serious issue but it might be convenient.

These have been some of the issues I have been thinking about for the past few weeks and I don't have answers to many of the questions yet.

[Targan]

Maybe we should contact these builders of the T2K wiki and direct them to this thread. They may come to realise the benefits of having members of this group on board, ESPECIALLY the DC Working Group and Kato not to mention Paul, Antenna, General Pain, Headquarters and our other "Heads" (to steal a phrase from Platoon). Then they'd realise that we could build a competing Wiki but have chosen not to and it would be to everyone's benefit to have us on board.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Targan

Maybe we should contact these builders of the T2K wiki and direct them to this thread. They may come to realise the benefits of having members of this group on board, ESPECIALLY the DC Working Group and Kato not to mention Paul, Antenna, General Pain, Headquarters and our other "Heads" (to steal a phrase from Platoon). Then they'd realise that we could build a competing Wiki but have chosen not to and it would be to everyone's benefit to have us on board.

You flatter me to speak my nick in the company of such esteemed RPGers .

Yes General - a little praise for you too .Will definently make a scenario that will likely kill your PC next Ftf though .(Anything less would be an insult I feel )

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Targan

Maybe we should contact these builders of the T2K wiki and direct them to this thread. They may come to realise the benefits of having members of this group on board, ESPECIALLY the DC Working Group and Kato not to mention Paul, Antenna, General Pain, Headquarters and our other "Heads" (to steal a phrase from Platoon). Then they'd realise that we could build a competing Wiki but have chosen not to and it would be to everyone's benefit to have us on board.

I am not sure who to contact, nor if I'm the best person (since I am not a content producer). Also the person who created the wiki seems to have not responded to a previous question for a month (EDIT I am not sure this is accurate I may have been looking in the wrong place). I think what ever direction we go is going to require a little more research. I however will try to avoid my occasional pitfall of analysis paralysis.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by kato13

I am not sure who to contact, nor if I'm the best person (since I am not a content producer).

I mentioned you because while you are not a content producer your are a fine collater, coordinator and facilitator par exellence. IMO. And as the provider of this fine forum you make an obvious spokesman for us all.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Targan

I mentioned you because while you are not a content producer your are a fine collater, coordinator and facilitator par exellence. IMO. And as the provider of this fine forum you make an obvious spokesman for us all.

Well thank you.

I'll put out some feelers over the next couple of days. From a technical standpoint both options have strengths and weaknesses.

[General Pain]

Originally Posted by kato13

I'm willing to do it but it will take some time.

IMO the software is really a no brainer. Wikipedia's software is free. Many people are comfortable with wikipedia's editing system and it has tons of flexibility.

Bandwidth becomes the next issue. I have lost my two best free hosting options recently and I am not sure I want to overload my home line (which this forum runs on).

If we have both sites (the forum and the wiki) on the same server I should be able two unify the logins easily as there is already software. That may not be a serious issue but it might be convenient.

These have been some of the issues I have been thinking about for the past few weeks and I don't have answers to many of the questions yet.

Well in regards to bandwith it's no problem for my to host the server....I have a 100mb/100mb line and I allready have to servers going 24/7 so It wouldn't be problem with another one....I think I have a couple of boxes not beeing used by anything anyways...so I can provide bandwith and hardware - but I never tried to make a wicki....

[kato13]

Originally Posted by General Pain

Well in regards to bandwith it's no problem for my to host the server....I have a 100mb/100mb line and I allready have to servers going 24/7 so It wouldn't be problem with another one....I think I have a couple of boxes not beeing used by anything anyways...so I can provide bandwith and hardware - but I never tried to make a wicki....

With remote access to a fresh linux box I could probably get it, plus all other necessary software running with 8-12 hours of dedicated time (after some prep time and a little research). I have built just about everything under the sun in regards to web developments. Edit: Deciding how and configuring for optimal wiki layout it is a different matter.

Timing wise I might have time during the latter portion of the month.

BTW Me and my 1.5 mb/.5 mb line are so so jealous.

I am still going to put out some feelers on the other wiki, but if the owner does not seem responsive going on our own might be the best. Perhaps we can poach their content developers if we cannot get in touch with the owner of the board.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by kato13

I am still going to put out some feelers on the other wiki, but if the owner does not seem responsive going on our own might be the best. Perhaps we can poach their content developers if we cannot get in touch with the owner of the board.

That makes sense.

[kato13]

Bumping to keep this near the top.

The owner/creator of the wiki just registered. Hopefully we will be able to pick his brain soon.

[General Pain]

Originally Posted by kato13

Bumping to keep this near the top.

The owner/creator of the wiki just registered. Hopefully we will be able to pick his brain soon.

who?

what nick?

[kato13]

Kellochli is his nick. He registered this afternoon.

[Targan]

Excellent. That is much faster progress than I expected. Lets make this Kellochi feel welcome, folks.

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by kato13

I will also look at a way to back up the wiki's information as it appears to be out of a fan's control and i would hate to lose all that data if the controlling corp decides to just pull the plug someday. That was my biggest fear before recommending such a site.

I've been looking into that (I'm paranoid about backups). It's not as simple as I'd like, but here's my check list:

• Go to the Special:AllPages page and open each link (3 at the moment) in a new tab
• Copy/paste the list of articles into a text file
• Use a regexp search to replace tab with newline to get a list of articles, one per line
• Copy/paste the list of articles into the Special:Export page
• Hit the Export button

The end result is an XML file that can be imported into another MediaWiki installation. I did this earlier today, and got a 1.5MB file. I've zipped it and attached it to this message so that everyone reading this forum has access to a copy.

Russ

[kato13]

Good to know. I am really obsessive about backups as well. I can probably script that at some point.

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by kato13

Good to know. I am really obsessive about backups as well. I can probably script that at some point.

If you could script it, that'd be great. At first, I looked at using wget, but the robots.txt file forbids it. That in itself isn't too much of an issue, since wget can be set up to ignore robots.txt, but I then found that if I left it running, I'd have got a lot of rubbish (edit pages, etc)

Russ