What to do with the 43,000 troops and dependents from Going Home?

[agrikk]

I've been struggling with what happens to Norfolk and places beyond when the 43,000 combat-weary troops and dependents come home from Europe at the conclusion of Going Home.

All we really know about Norfolk VA is that it was nuked (per Howling Wilderness) and that orders come from there at the beginning of Armies of the Night sending them to NY.

We know that the area around Norfolk "currently supports a small (and shrinking) Milgov enclave, consisting mostly of troops brought back from Europe in late 2000."


What happens to the troops who arrive? Who was there to greet them?

I assume a lot of folks don't want to stay in the Army and want to return home. What happens to them? Are they disarmed and escorted to a gate with a "have a nice day"? Are any convoys organized to get folks back to the West Coast? with what fuel?

The logistics of the sudden arrival of 43,000 people can't be overlooked, and yet the modules and all the source material treat them as if they vanish into thin air as soon as they get off the boat.

Never mind that the majority of these 43,000 people are combat veterans and who are basically broke and gearless (thanks to the 100kg limit imposed). Unless something is done about these folks in an organized fashion, the surrounding countryside is about to get blasted with a nomad population who all know how to use a firearm.

Does anyone have any ideas about what to do with this mob?

[ArmySGT.]

I am sure some G1 staffers will be segregating them as they arrive.

Army to hangar 1
Air Force Hanger 2
Marines Hangar 3
Navy Hangar 4
Coast Guard 5
DOD Civilians 6
All Family Members stay with your Military Member.

The will be food, facilities and Members of YOUR Branch to answer your questions.

Amtrak will get pressed into Service (it Govt) as Troop trains. Service Members may get separated fast and find themselves on the way to a new front.

[agrikk]

Oooh! Amtrak! I'd totally forgotten about it as a resource.

What a great idea. A few trains run to get the bulk of troops out of the area will be a great way to thin out the herd...

[Legbreaker]

The following threads have all dealt with this to some degree or other.
http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=2408
http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=2088
http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=1957
http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=1745

There is evidence to say the bulk of the returning soldiers were demobilised, weapons and other military equipment confiscated and the new civilians essentially just shown the door.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

All Family Members stay with your Military Member.

So what happens with say a navy man married to a air force woman?

Trains aren't really going to be much of an option with major transportation hubs nuked (not to mention where the troops landed in the first place). They might get a few dozen, maybe a hundred miles, but that's about it before they hit a section of impassible (without major work) track. Besides, the military got tens of thousands of people back to the US, for those they've demobilised, that's about where their responsibilty to them ends.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

So what happens with say a navy man married to a air force woman?

Even IRL, that's been a big problem for a long time. Even if the military members are in the same branch of service. The military tries their best to station married service members as near as possible to each other, but officially, there are no guarantees.

Old saying in the Army: "If the Army wanted you to have a wife, they'd issue you one."

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by agrikk

Does anyone have any ideas about what to do with this mob?

Ummm...serve them up in a light wine sauce and with a side of fava beans?

[Legbreaker]

Agreed, it's a crappy situation with the marriage almost certainly doomed to fail IRL. In T2K on the other hand, at least by 2000, it doesn't seem as much of a problem. Without planes to service and fly, the air force personnel are twiddling their thumbs, and so are naval crew. Both are likely to find themselves either demobilised (most likely) or seconded to the Army.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by agrikk

Are any convoys organized to get folks back to the West Coast? with what fuel?

Ha! Umm, no, I don't think so. Most or all of that journey would be done at a level of technology of the steam era or earlier (and I don't mean the time before Valve's excellent online games delivery system). As in, wagon trains. I think if MILGOV or CIVGOV wanted to send a small team to the west coast it would be a pretty major undertaking. Sending, say, 15,000 people? It's... well it's just not going to happen.

I could see a lot of semi-official organisations springing up to try to organise people into groups with mutual interests, traveling from Norfolk to certain far away locations for instance. These would probably (at first) have official sanction and some official assistance. I think MILGOV would try really hard to keep things organised and civilised around Norfolk at first but by mid to late 2001 the authorities would be losing their grip on all but the specified east coast enclaves.

By far and away the best source of canon information about conditions and locations along the east coast from Norfolk to New Jersey post-Going Home is the mini-sourcebook A Rock in Troubled Waters in Challenge Magazine issue #42. It is 9 pages long and far, far more detailed than, say, Howling Wildernes. It is set in early 2001 and contains notable remaining MILGOV units, major militia and maurauder groups and even some of the remaining naval assets being operated by MILGOV between Virginia and New Jersey.

This is the opening section of A Rock in Troubled Waters:

"The coastal settlements around south Jersey's shores form a region of small communities that has managed to survive the war relatively intact. This is one of the more stable and lucrative areas held by MILGOV. This article provdes a detailed reference of the area, centering on the Intracoastal Waterway - the most reliable local avenue in the year 2001 - used by slow-moving military and civilian traffic. It is also designed to tie the Going Home module with any adventure set in the northeastern United States. A Rock in Troubled Water (set in early 2001) details and territory and notable clusters of civilization from the Delaware Canal and Cape Henlopen in Delaware, north and east across Pennsylvania and New Jersey to Perth Amboy. This includes Philadelphia, Trenton, Wilmington, Cape May Naval Base, Fort Dix, and Tom's River Naval Station. Also covered are the specifications on several "brown water navy" vessels, as well as the state government and militia system for New Jersey (as organized by MILGOV)."

The Challenge magazine articles and mini modules for T2K were a huge resource of canon material (and they ARE officially canon). Discussions like the ones contained in this thread are likely to fall into two main divisions, those of people with the Challenge mags and those without.

When I was running that part of my last campaign involving the PCs traveling from Norfolk to NYC A Rock in Troubled Waters proved absolutely invaluable. Other Challenge articles very useful for east coast play include Rifle River (covers Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhode Island and has excellent details on a big chunk of the remnants of the USCG and the 43 Military Police Brigade), Pennsylvania Crude (covers a largely civilian operation to uncap an old Pennsylvanian oil well), and Strangers in a Strange Land (an excellent mini-adventure about a maurauder band made up of escaped WARPAC POWs roaming around New Jersey). They are all contained in the Challenge mag issues 25 to #50 (issue #50 contains a fantastic index of all the articles to that point). I haven't completed my own index of the issues past 50 yet and I don't have the time right now to trawl through them. There are probably other mini-sourcebooks and mini-modules relevant to this discussion contained in issues #51+.

I would also direct your attention to the essay in Challenge issue #25 titled What Do We Do Now? which offers some great ideas about the choices soldiers returning from the Twilight War are faced with. The article Wilderness Travel and Pursuit contained in Challenge issue #28 is also very useful. Look, there are 55 T2K articles and mini-modules contained in Challenge issues 25 to 50. There are probably a similar number of T2K articles and mini-modules contained in Challenge issues 51 to 77 (the last one published). If you don't have this excellent source of T2K material then I can't urge you strongly enough to obtain them.

[Fusilier]

Although it can't realistically handle a large fraction of all of those troops, there are military convoys between Norfolk and Muskogee (Oklahoma), by way of Greensboro, Nashville, Memphis and Little Rock.

-Allegheny Uprising

[Legbreaker]

My guess is that there might be only a dozen seats or so available on any one convoy. Much of the space would be taken up by stores, spare fuel, and escorting troops.

[LAW0306]

Check out chico's page. two years of work went into what he came up with.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by LAW0306

Check out chico's page.

Good suggestion Law. Maybe you could post a link for the new guys? (I'm at work and don't have access to my 'favorites' list on my internet browser).

[Mohoender]

May I ask naive questions?

What the point of bringing all these 43000 personnels home (with at least their hand weapons) and sacrifice what is left of available ressources simply to demobilize them and, then, throw them out, barehands, in the mess that has become the USA?

If something can be granted to Milgov is that it always did its best to keep its troops alive and back home? Why would it, as a final act, sacrifices all these same troops?

Back to 1940. Belgian soldiers in France were taken into custody in the region of Camargue (St Marie de la Mer). Although, the Belgian troops where deprive of all weapons (Belgium already capitulated), it was planned to use them to manage supplies (until France in turn capitulated).

Also in 1940, 10,000 French troops had been brought to UK after Dunkirk. The British government wanted to throw them out. The new Free French authorities negociated the right to ask them to stay and fight: 400 accepted while the others left for France. In the meantime, British troops that had been brought back from Dunkirk (with much less than 100kg of gears) were immediately issued new assignments; UK still had a war to fight and its homeland to defend.

In 2000, Milgov still has a war to fight and its homeland to defend.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Targan

Look, there are 55 T2K articles and mini-modules contained in Challenge issues 25 to 50. There are probably a similar number of T2K articles and mini-modules contained in Challenge issues 51 to 77 (the last one published). If you don't have this excellent source of T2K material then I can't urge you strongly enough to obtain them.

The Twilight v1.0 and v2.2 CDs at http://www.farfuture.net/cdroms.html contain all the Challenege articles for the given game system at $35.00 each as well as all the modules, rules and supplements you counld want in PDF format. I picked them both up a few months as I was having trouble finding some of my old gaming stuff.

Still can't find Armies of the Night in my pile of stuff.

[Adm.Lee]

I always figured they would try to organize some new units around volunteers, and take a lot more and organize them to go home.

For instance, everyone from Maryland (pretty close to Norfolk) has the option of rapid demobilization, and will get delivered to their county seat. From there, they may be on their own to get home, but I would try to set up some kind of militia from the veterans to suppress marauders/bandits/New America once they settle down.

Folks from Colorado, well, it's a long walk, are you sure you wouldn't rather be in the Regulars?

I can't see Amtrak being much of a resource, as much as I love trains. If the infrastructure were still in good shape and there was fuel, sure. The railnet may be one of the first things to try to get running, IMO. What I can see would be big road convoys moving along the interstates to get to states further west. If someplace is not under control, then it might have to get bypassed.

One of my inspirations is the soldier colonies the Romans used to pay off their veterans: you get land, but promise to keep your arms clean in case we need you (or your son, as the case may be). I think a lot of places are going to have to keep armed militias/sheriff's posses available for a decade or so.

[Targan]

I've now mostly completed my own index of the T2K articles contained in Challenge Magazine issues 51 to 77. I'll probably eventually include issues 25 to 50 because my index is a bit more comprehensive that the one contained in Challege issue 50 (I've included columns for a basic outline of the topic of the article, the type of article it is such as mini-module or new equipment for instance, and whether it's for T2K, Merc: 2000 or both, as well as issue number and page number).

The mini-module Westward Ho! in Challenge #57 is about a MILGOV-sponsored migration of the population of Jamesville, Kentucky to the outskirts of Memphis, Tennesee. So obviously during 2001 MILGOV was prepared to help move fairly large numbers of people around, for the purposes of consolidating and protecting loyalist populations (and moving people to areas where it is easier to feed them). I could definitely envisage arrangements whereby troops debarking in Norfolk might be encouraged to join local security forces (militia/police/sheriff's departments etc) engaged in protecting such movements of people, especially if the people being moved were from the same home areas as the troops being demobbed.

The mini-modules The Lima Incident (Challenge #56) and A Little Recon Mission (Challenge #58) are linked and are set in Ohio. They involve the PCs being formed into a Special Operations Group by CIVGOV. In the first adventure the PCs are tasked with securing a very valuable prize in Lima, Ohio. In the second the PCs are sent to infiltrate Wright-Patterson AFB to gather intel on a MILGOV operation in Kentucky (also with a valuable prize at stake). I won't reveal the goodies in either adventure in case players read this (and I don't know how to set up spoiler commands in this forum!).

[pmulcahy11b]

I don't see them being tossed out on their ear. The members of the military, however, will probably find out when they get to Norfolk that there is no discharge awaiting them -- they've been indefinitely Stop-Lossed. Many won't happy with that and there will be a rash of desertions -- and those will be written off as a loss. There will be a hard press, especially with troops that have dependents, that staying with the military will be the best way to take care of themselves and dependents, and to a large extent, that will be true. That press will start off almost immediately upon leaving Bremerhaven; the interior walls of the ship will have a lot of posters and notes to that end, and they'll hear a lot of counseling to that end.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

I can't see Amtrak being much of a resource, as much as I love trains. If the infrastructure were still in good shape and there was fuel, sure. The railnet may be one of the first things to try to get running, IMO. What I can see would be big road convoys moving along the interstates to get to states further west. If someplace is not under control, then it might have to get bypassed.

While Amtrak is a craptastic .gov entity it rents time on the rails as those are private property. Even though a large rail hub may be nuked out of existence, there are all sorts of side lines that branch around a service small communities especially farm.

Alot of Rail road equipment and infrastructure will survive too as it is based in small towns too.

Rail would jump at the chance to become a people hauling entity again. There is something like 40 passenger cars in Puelbo sitting on a siding as it is not lucrative enough to run them.

The is even an operating Steam Locomotive that runs just for fans, the Toltec - Cumbres line.

[Legbreaker]

One of the main reasons I can see Milgov bringing people home for is to increase their legitimacy. 43,000 people who owe their lives to Milgov is a LOT of votes and they can count on about 99% of them should they be needed.

While it's true many of the troops will be retained in service, does the military really want to remain responsible for the crippled? What about the civilians and the foriegn nationals? Does the military really want to hang onto people who no longer have a military value such as UAV pilots? Some yes, but only the best of them.

Milgov also can't feed that many people, and certainly can't transport them to Texas or Alaska where the war continues on a low level. Demobilisation in my mind is a better option than trying to hold on to everyone and instead loosing them all the desertion. Demobilisation strips away all the items of military value, desertion is a complete loss.

Many veterans will be happy to jump at demobilisation too. They've been fighting for roughly five years, most without visiting home even once, and none with a word from their familiy in years. Staying in the military and being ordered to go places and do things they really don't want to do isn't going to hold a lot of attraction when they have no idea if home is still in one peice of a smouldering crater.

[Webstral]

Chico and the DC Group addressed the demobilization issue essentially by claiming it wouldn't happen. We've had lengthy discussions about characters' motivations for staying versus leaving. We need to bear in mind that there is no precedent for the circumstances US military personnel find when they get home. Crispy as these critters are likely to be, they aren't going to get out of the service, go home, and sit by the window and drink for a year. As the first sergeant in the v1 rules remarks, this is worse than the A Shau (sp?) because this is everywhere. Where exactly do the demobilized types think they are going to go, and how exactly do they think they are going to get there?

All that said, I could see Milgov offering transport to New Jersey (thanks for bringing that up). Tens of thousands of relatively young and fit Americans who possess a variety of skills desperately needed by the society have a value beyond calculation. Let's be honest, too: the ones who do get out can expect to be drafted into the local militia wherever they go.

Paul, I agree that the propaganda machine will be working overtime to get as many to stay as possible. These people are gold. Thomason of Fort Huachuca would love to get his hands on five hundred of them, but even I can’t imagine any way for that to happen. Deserters from Division Cuba have a better chance of reaching southern Arizona than OMEGA troops.

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

One of my inspirations is the soldier colonies the Romans used to pay off their veterans: you get land, but promise to keep your arms clean in case we need you (or your son, as the case may be).

Essentially, this means being “demobilized” into a reservist. This could be an okay deal. The chance to find a place in a surviving Milgov enclave, meet a woman, and worry about mundane things like getting enough to eat might be very attractive to veterans from Europe.

The idea of transporting veterans from Europe, addressed here and there in Howling Wilderness, brings up some questions. We know from Howling Wilderness that some veterans reach 78th ID in New Jersey. We know some reach the Milgov command along the middle Mississippi. This fact rather strongly implies that the Navy still has some ability to move men and supplies along the Atlantic and Gulf seaboards. I’ve always felt that the description of movement to New London, CT in The Last Submarine was overly dramatic. Fuel oil for small warships might be short, but surely the Navy would have gotten in the habit of “drafting” sailing vessels of all sizes fairly promptly after the TDM. Dropping a dozen men along the coast can’t be that hard for a sailing vessel (depending, of course, on the coast in question).

The foregoing makes me think that the Navy must be maintaining a number of its bases along the Atlantic and Gulf Coasts as defended way stations, if we are to believe that traffic from Norfolk can reach Arkansas with any degree of reliability. There are some interesting implications in all of this. The Sea Lord of Jacksonville seems that much more of a problem in this light. He who can interdict sea traffic between the mid-Atlantic states and the Gulf is in a position to very seriously affect the future of the nation. Hm. Traditionally, I’ve thought of the Sea Lord as an interesting creation of no real consequence. Suddenly, I’m seeing him as a major threat in need of being dealt with. Perhaps we know what the first mission will be for those Omegamen who stay in the service.

[Targan]

Will it be 43,000 people dropped off in Norfolk anyway? I can't remember off-hand whether that figure is the total shipped out of Bremerhaven (I'm pretty sure it is) or the total number that arrives at Norfolk. Somewhere in canon I'm pretty sure it says that many thousands of the TF34 troops are diverted to the Middle East theater as reinforcements. Also there would probably be small sub-convoys sent immediately out from Bremerhaven to bring reinforcements to some of the MILGOV enclaves up and down the east coast of the US.

Another subgroup of the returning troops that need to be considered are those who wish to remain as soldiers fighting for the US, but want to do it under the control of CIVGOV. Admittedly, most troops serving overseas would have had very little accurate information about the MILGOV-CIVGOV split. More information would be available once they got back to the US but it would be heavily skewed by MILGOV propaganda. Still, some service men and women would have deeply held ideological or political reasons for wanting to defect to CIVGOV. No doubt MILGOV authorities in Norfolk would have programs in place to dissuade returning troops from taking such a course.

[Legbreaker]

6,000 went directly to the middle east as reinforcements. Chances are they went directly there without going any further west than Wales.
My guess is that of the remaining numbers, there's no way they'd all be landed at the same location. The bulk of say 75% may have, but those units listed in canon as receiving reinforcements were probably the "port of first call" for those troops.
I believe Going Home states there was enough fuel for a one way trip (could be wrong on that) and the ships engines would be effectively ruined by running on the crude, which to me means most of the organisation about who was going where occurred back in Germany. It seems unlikely everyone would go to Norfolk only to be processed and re-board ships with limited to non-existent fuel for another port. Just considering food and shelter requirements for so many people in one previously nuked place puts that idea firmly into the realm of fantasy.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Webstral

The idea of transporting veterans from Europe, addressed here and there in Howling Wilderness, brings up some questions. We know from Howling Wilderness that some veterans reach 78th ID in New Jersey. We know some reach the Milgov command along the middle Mississippi. This fact rather strongly implies that the Navy still has some ability to move men and supplies along the Atlantic and Gulf seaboards. I’ve always felt that the description of movement to New London, CT in The Last Submarine was overly dramatic. Fuel oil for small warships might be short, but surely the Navy would have gotten in the habit of “drafting” sailing vessels of all sizes fairly promptly after the TDM. Dropping a dozen men along the coast can’t be that hard for a sailing vessel (depending, of course, on the coast in question).

Once again I direct your attention to the mini-sourcebook A Rock in Troubled Waters in Challenge Magazine issue #42. It talks directly and in some detail about these issues, including land routes being used by MILGOV to move troops and materiel between Norfolk and the New Jersey enclave, and what fighting vessels MILGOV regularly operates up and down the east coast post-OMEGA.

It's a wealth of information on how MILGOV on the east coast organises things. There is some really good, specific info on the New Jersey enclave controlled by the 78th ID and also on the (really quite powerful) MILGOV assets operating out of Cape May Naval Base (formerly a USCG facility). The New Jersey State Militia is quite a powerful force and A Rock in Troubled Waters has pretty good descriptions of its size, capabilities and component units. The NJSG even has an armored rapid reaction force, the 2nd Cavalry Squadron, NJSG, 50 troopers operating 10 armored bank trucks. The article says "Under New Jersey law all males between the ages of 17 and 25 are liable for service in the state reserve militia, in the event the Governor declares an emergency. The NJSM will under no circumstances venture outside the state".

The Cape May Naval Base is an amazing hub of military might (from a T2K 2001 perspective). It would take me too long to manually type it all out here but let me give you some examples of the resources the MILGOV commander at Cape May has at his disposal:
* The USS Hyman Rickover (formerly the barkentine Gazela of Philadelphia, a sailing vesel with 3 tons of cargo capacity and mounting a 3"/54-cal pedestal-mounted deck gun, 2 x .50 cal HMGs, 2 x Mk19 AGLs and 2 x 81mm mortars;
* USS Bigelow (DD942);
* USS Confidence (WMEC 619);
* 1 X ocean going tug, 4 x inshore patrol craft (PCF), 2 x Cape May/Lewes ferries, 2 x LCM 6 (expedient monitors each armed with 1 x forward turret containing twin-20mm Vulcans, a 20mm or 25mm AC and a Mk19, a midship weapons "bucket" containing an 81mm mortar and a pair of 7.62mm MGs, and a rear turret armed with either twin .50 cal MGs or a 5.56mm minigun/Mk19 combo), 2 x LCM 6 (expedient armored troop carriers), 8 x patrol boats riverine (expedient, 4 with sail/motor and 4 with motor);
* 1 x 10,000-ton tanker (immobile);
* The Red Dragons, a mercenary group of 100 Chinese-American refugees who were formerly a Philadelphia street gang, trained by a cadre of ex-military members (this group is fiercely loyal to the Naval Commander at Cape May and are used as an amphibious strike group);
* Piseck Commando, 18 ex-SWAT members from the Philadelphia and New Jersey State Police (deployed as an amphibious commando unit reporting directly to the Naval Commander at Cape May);
* 301st Independent Battery, 80 ex-military "graybeards" recruited from among refugees who operate 3 x M202 howitzers and 6 x 120mm mortars salvaged from NG and AR armories (provides fire support for CMNB);
* B and C Flights, 112th Naval Aviation Squadron operating 3 x O-2 Cessna twin engine spotter planes each rigged with a 7.62mm MG and 2 x Bell 47G (ex-cropduster) helicopters (it specifically states there is sufficient fuel to fly these aircraft for critical support missions) operating out of CMNB;
*HQ and A Flight, 112th Naval Aviation Squadron operating 2 x P-3 Orions and 2 x O-2 Cessna twin engine spotter planes (the P-3s are unable to fly due to a lack of fuel but are in flyable condition).

I haven't included the extensive regular and militia ground forces at the CMNB commander's disposal.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I believe Going Home states there was enough fuel for a one way trip (could be wrong on that) and the ships engines would be effectively ruined by running on the crude, which to me means most of the organisation about who was going where occurred back in Germany. It seems unlikely everyone would go to Norfolk only to be processed and re-board ships with limited to non-existent fuel for another port. Just considering food and shelter requirements for some many people in one previously nuked place puts that idea firmly into the realm of fantasy.

It's true that there is very little fuel available for the larger naval vesels post-OMEGA. As well as USS Bigelow at CMNB, MILGOV operates USS Mamley (DD940) and USS Blandy (DD943) out of Norfolk post-OMEGA but A Rock in Troubled Waters does specifically state that they rarely put to sea due to a lack of fuel.

[Webstral]

I skimmed "A Rock in Troubled Waters". At the risk of sounding like I’m patting myself on the back, it’s remarkable how similarly the original Twilight: 2000 crowd and I think. Of course, a certain amount of the similarity almost certainly originates from similarities in motive (creation of a post-apocalyptic world that blends realism with good story-telling), culture (Army pukes), and experience (Cold War with some high-temperature peacekeeping, anyone?). My observations about militias backing the listed Army units appear to be borne out. I don’t feel like my emphasis on explaining the relative prosperity of SAMAD is excessive. Blue Two (Second Naval Infantry Battalion, operating in San Francisco Bay) looks downright mainstream now. I could go on, but it’s clear that Thunder Empire, Poseidon’s Rifles, and Silver Shogunate have been moving along parallel tracks to the established material in "A Rock in Troubled Waters". Fascinating.

I love the detail I’ve read so far. I love the thought process. I love that GDW has differentiated so distinctly between locales. New Jersey is a natural place for a large slice of the Omegamen to go.

Regarding shipping, I’m inclined to agree that dropping in excess of 40,000 troops in Virginia Beach over the course of a week may strain local supply. On the other hand, I wonder how much planning really is going to get done in Germany. The units that arrive early can be sorted. The folks that show up late… Well, I suppose the folks who show up late just get sent to eastern Virginia for sorting later. The troops who arrive in a timely fashion may have the luxury of being grouped by destination.

Here I go referring to my own work again… One of my struggles with Poseidon’s Rifles always has been balancing the presence of a pretty substantial military establishment on the coast of Maine with the material in The Last Submarine and the Challenge article on the US Coast Guard in Rhode Island (“Rifle River?”). Very specifically, I’ve had to think hard about how to show that a couple of fairly powerful small warships belonging to First District can fit with the established canon. It’s only years after I started writing Poseidon’s Rifles that the obvious answer for where USCGC Gallatin, the flagship of First District, is in 2000. As soon as Milgov makes the decision to withdraw US troops from Europe (before the summer offensive?), Gallatin is picked to participate. Overhauling the ship, storing up the fuel, making the crossing, waiting waiting waiting… The better part of 2000 might be eaten up with that sort of thing.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Webstral

On the other hand, I wonder how much planning really is going to get done in Germany. The units that arrive early can be sorted. The folks that show up late… Well, I suppose the folks who show up late just get sent to eastern Virginia for sorting later. The troops who arrive in a timely fashion may have the luxury of being grouped by destination.

I'd say a fair bit of planning will already have been done. I'm sure much of the organisational work will have commenced months before the order was broadcast across Europe (ok, maybe it wouldn't really have started until the 5th ID was confirmed lost and XI Corp cut off, so lets say early to mid August?).
Sorting troops for their eventual destination in Germany is really the only way it can be done. Ship A goes here loaded with these people, Ship B there with those, etc. Late arrivals would be simply shoved onto a couple of ships assigned for the late arrivals and almost certainly sent to Norfolk for latter processing as you've said.

Originally Posted by Webstral

It’s only years after I started writing Poseidon’s Rifles that the obvious answer for where USCGC Gallatin, the flagship of First District, is in 2000. As soon as Milgov makes the decision to withdraw US troops from Europe (before the summer offensive?), Gallatin is picked to participate. Overhauling the ship, storing up the fuel, making the crossing, waiting waiting waiting… The better part of 2000 might be eaten up with that sort of thing.

Works for me, however you might want to hold off sending ships across the pond until August... Having the ships stuck in drydock somewhere during the early part of the year seems to be the best approach to avoid screwing around with canon too much (although it's your creation and you should do what you like).

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I skimmed "A Rock in Troubled Waters". At the risk of sounding like I’m patting myself on the back, it’s remarkable how similarly the original Twilight: 2000 crowd and I think. Of course, a certain amount of the similarity almost certainly originates from similarities in motive (creation of a post-apocalyptic world that blends realism with good story-telling), culture (Army pukes), and experience (Cold War with some high-temperature peacekeeping, anyone?). My observations about militias backing the listed Army units appear to be borne out. I don’t feel like my emphasis on explaining the relative prosperity of SAMAD is excessive. Blue Two (Second Naval Infantry Battalion, operating in San Francisco Bay) looks downright mainstream now. I could go on, but it’s clear that Thunder Empire, Poseidon’s Rifles, and Silver Shogunate have been moving along parallel tracks to the established material in "A Rock in Troubled Waters". Fascinating.

There's no need to be modest. I greatly admire your work and I long ago decided to add your Thunder Empire and Silver Shogunate work lock, stock and barrel into my campaigns.

Originally Posted by Webstral

Here I go referring to my own work again… One of my struggles with Poseidon’s Rifles always has been balancing the presence of a pretty substantial military establishment on the coast of Maine with the material in The Last Submarine and the Challenge article on the US Coast Guard in Rhode Island (“Rifle River?”). Very specifically, I’ve had to think hard about how to show that a couple of fairly powerful small warships belonging to First District can fit with the established canon. It’s only years after I started writing Poseidon’s Rifles that the obvious answer for where USCGC Gallatin, the flagship of First District, is in 2000. As soon as Milgov makes the decision to withdraw US troops from Europe (before the summer offensive?), Gallatin is picked to participate. Overhauling the ship, storing up the fuel, making the crossing, waiting waiting waiting… The better part of 2000 might be eaten up with that sort of thing.

Your Gallatin idea makes perfect sense. I've always wanted to incorporate your Poseidon’s Rifles work into my campaigns but I have been hesitant because I'm not sure where it would conflict with canon.for better or for worse, I personally always try not to contradict canon (each to their own though, that's just my personal preference). I'm happy to fill in the blanks in canon with new material though. If your Poseidon’s Rifles work reaches completion and doesn't conflict with what's in Rifle River and The Last Submarine I'll incorporate it wholesale as well.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Targan

...doesn't conflict with what's in Rifle River and The Last Submarine I'll incorporate it wholesale as well.

I'm in agreement with that as a general statement. Anybodies work which expands on the canon without contradicting it is likely to see use in my hands.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

...you might want to hold off sending ships across the pond until August... Having the ships stuck in drydock somewhere during the early part of the year seems to be the best approach to avoid screwing around with canon too much (although it's your creation and you should do what you like).

I agree insofar as Gallatin, a 3250-ton cutter with a 76mm gun and other smaller armaments, has to be managed carefully in order not to upset the balance of things as given in The Last Submarine and “Rifle River”. Looking back through my notes, I see that I’ve addressed this concern already (and quite forgot about it). Gallatin serves as convoy escort to the movement of 70th Infantry Division to Europe in 1998. While in Europe, Gallatin and her squadron are diverted to Norway to intercept Soviet raiders on their way back to Soviet-held territory from Trondheim. During the fighting, Gallatin shares credit for sinking a Tarantul-class corvette and receives full credit for a Nanutchka. Gallatin takes multiple hits from enemy autocannon during the engagement. She makes the Atlantic crossing and spends more than a year in drydock and at anchor in Bath (Maine). Shortages of fuel keep her from participating in any but the most important missions after she is declared fit for service. Gallatin participates in two actions against “pirates” operating along the coast of the Maritime Provinces in late 1999. In spring 2000, she participates in a pre-OMEGA to withdraw American troops from Iceland. Gallatin has no more sea time until crossing the Atlantic to escort the OMEGA fleet to the US.

Fuel shortages and repairs should suffice to explain why the strongest naval combatant in New England is sidelined for most of the post-Exchange period through April 2001.

[Legbreaker]

Most, if not all Coast Guard vessels are painted white, is that correct? Would they have received a naval grey coat at some point?