BTR-60 question

[atiff]

Anyone ever seen the insides of a BTR-60?

My question is about the crew and troop compartments. Is it possible to move from the crew area to the troop compartment internally within the vehicle? I imagine not, but don't know.

Also, the gunner's position: is it possible to move from one of the other crew positions (driver or commander) to the gun position easily enough? I imagine yes, but don't know.

Thanks for any help!

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by atiff

Anyone ever seen the insides of a BTR-60?

My question is about the crew and troop compartments. Is it possible to move from the crew area to the troop compartment internally within the vehicle? I imagine not, but don't know.

Also, the gunner's position: is it possible to move from one of the other crew positions (driver or commander) to the gun position easily enough? I imagine yes, but don't know.

Thanks for any help!

http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/...bat-units.html

- unfortunately that is a "non-combat vehicle" (maybe NBC or commo?) so it doesn't show a turret basket

However this:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...23jdv.jpg/sr=1

shows a 3d-CAD model of the inside, and as you can see the basket is entirely open, so movement into and out of the gunner position is entirely possible for someone inside the vehicle, as well as movement forward to the driving/command positions.

[Legbreaker]

I believe I've got some photos laying about at home....

[StainlessSteelCynic]

There is no separation of the troop area from the crew area, it's all one big open compartment.

[atiff]

Super - thanks!

[ArmySGT.]

I have been inside a BTR-80A.

All one compartment. everyone faces out. Side doors and roof hatches to dismount. It would be difficult to move around with a normal complement and gear, essentially crawling over each other to do it.

The design accomadates seated troops. They can't stand up inside and it would be best if they were short. 5'5" or less.

[ArmySGT.]

http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/...-interior.html

[Legbreaker]

Another point to remember is the gunner's view is restricted to his sights and what he can see past the driver and commander. Perhaps slightly better than a tank gunner, but in my mind the lack of a turret hatch is a serious drawback - at least in a tank the commander can poke his head out without getting whacked with the main gun as it turns around.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Another point to remember is the gunner's view is restricted to his sights and what he can see past the driver and commander. Perhaps slightly better than a tank gunner, but in my mind the lack of a turret hatch is a serious drawback - at least in a tank the commander can poke his head out without getting whacked with the main gun as it turns around.

Yeah there's a good point, the BTR-60PB turret does not have a roof hatch as can be seen below so the gunner is totally restricted in what he can see from his sights and by ducking into the crew compartment and looking out through the front windscreens


Here's a model kit of a BTR-70 and while ignoring the crew entry ports between the wheels, the layout of the interior is essentially unchanged from the BTR-60PB

Rest of the images can be found here http://www.kitmaker.net/modules.php?...opic_id=106722

In the image that ArmySGT posted the link for, that seat you see suspended on a pole hanging from the ceiling - that's the gunner's seat so you can see how easily it is for him to get into position. There's no roof hatch for the turret on the -60PB so this is the only way he's going to get to that seat (probably the reason why they never bothered with a proper turret basket too)

[pmulcahy11b]

I've been in a BTR-60PB -- cramped as a mother! (And I'm of below-average height.) And you really feel the lack of a roof hatch in the turret; turret visibility sucks. I couldn't even drive one; I never learned how to drive a stick, let alone having a vehicle with manual transmission and two engines. And going for a short joy-ride in one off-road will make you a bit queasy.

[Schone23666]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I've been in a BTR-60PB -- cramped as a mother! (And I'm of below-average height.) And you really feel the lack of a roof hatch in the turret; turret visibility sucks. I couldn't even drive one; I never learned how to drive a stick, let alone having a vehicle with manual transmission and two engines. And going for a short joy-ride in one off-road will make you a bit queasy.

Didn't the Soviets have height limitations for their Motorized Rifle units just like they did for their tankers? I forget what they were exactly but I think around 5 feet 6 inches or so??

Still, the Soviet design of armored vehicles as a whole suggests to me they really didn't plan on providing their crews and mechanized infantry with much gear other than a "basic" load, which I hear wasn't much.

[Legbreaker]

Although the vehicle as a whole has some issues, the main one for me is those tiny little side hatches the infantry are supposed to use under fire. I'm glad they addressed the issue somewhat in later models, but it's still not adequate in my opinion when compared to a ramp such as on an M113 or Bradley.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Although the vehicle as a whole has some issues, the main one for me is those tiny little side hatches the infantry are supposed to use under fire. I'm glad they addressed the issue somewhat in later models, but it's still not adequate in my opinion when compared to a ramp such as on an M113 or Bradley.

I always see them dismounting by the roof hatches. So I am guessing in their doctrine to use those unless under direct fire............. (shrug). The side hatches seem to be emergency egress.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

I always see them dismounting by the roof hatches. So I am guessing in their doctrine to use those unless under direct fire............. (shrug). The side hatches seem to be emergency egress.

You'd have to be a hobbit to get through the side hatches with gear on. They seem to be best for loading gear into the vehicle, or as a joke of an escape hatch. I remember reading some intel reports in Korea about the Russian troops' attitude about the BTR-60 -- they called those side hatches things like "suicide hatches" or "portholes" or suchlike.

[Legbreaker]

The roof hatches don't seem much bigger....

[ArmySGT.]

Have you met the Russians?

I did in Kosovo. Drunken Midgets.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I did some computer repair work for a guy who'd been on a baptist ministry mission in Moscow (post fall, mind you!) and he had a couple of officers' hats - the smart, dress uniform kind and I swear they'd have fit my kids.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Schone23666

Didn't the Soviets have height limitations for their Motorized Rifle units just like they did for their tankers? I forget what they were exactly but I think around 5 feet 6 inches or so??

Maybe, but I doubt it. Why waste all that manpower (i.e. taller folks)? The Soviets really never had any straight "leg" infantry units- pretty much every major Soviet infantry unit was a MRD. Folks over 5'6" or whatever couldn't all join the airborne/airmobile or mountain units (of which there were far, far fewer) and Soviet naval infantry were just as APC-bound as their landlubber comrades.

[Legbreaker]

Would the Soviets even care about passenger comfort?

[Schone23666]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Would the Soviets even care about passenger comfort?

I think just taking a look at their rations provides a pretty obvious answer.



And I pulled that from here: http://www.mreinfo.com/international...ssian-irp.html

And by the way, these are actually Russian rations that were processed after the breakup of the Union. Supposedly these are "improved", so imagine how nasty the Soviet rations must've been!

[ArmySGT.]

Part1

Part 2

Inside BTR-60 (Russian Video)

Other Inside BTR-60

BTR - 60 upgrade

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Whoa - looks like I need to go back and check my so-called reference material!
I have royally screwed up my internal layouts for the BTR-60 and the BTR-70.
Oh well, that's what we're all here for, to share info and learn things!

[Targan]

What a god awful cramped nightmare. And getting in or out in a hurry would take some serious practice if carrying full battle rattle. As Hudson would say, "You can count me out!".

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/...bat-units.html

- unfortunately that is a "non-combat vehicle" (maybe NBC or commo?) so it doesn't show a turret basket

However this:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...23jdv.jpg/sr=1

shows a 3d-CAD model of the inside, and as you can see the basket is entirely open, so movement into and out of the gunner position is entirely possible for someone inside the vehicle, as well as movement forward to the driving/command positions.

Unfortunately? Thats a rare bird getting its picture taken. That is either a BTR based Fire Direction Center, a Battery Commander vehicle, or other BTR based mobile Command Post.

Valuable pictures indeed.

[ArmySGT.]

Other sources say the BTR-60 R145 BM1 is a Command Staff vehicle.

Given the map table and extra radios in the pictures. I think you have laid your eyes on the Motorized Rifle Bn Commander CP.