Gunsights

[95th Rifleman]

Recently my gaming group started a fresh T2K with me as a GM. We've just finished an extended world of darkness campaighn and our old T2k campaighn had gone as far as anyone wanted to take it and that game's GM wanted a turn at playing rather than running. We may as well call it Twilight 1990 as we use the V1. timeline but run it back a decade with the conflict kicking off in December 1986 and with the campaighn starting in the summer of 1990.

Most of the PCs are British, however two are Americans (an Infantryman and a female pilot). The inantryman raised the possibility of fitting a British SUSAT onto his M16, the group two spare SA80's and the PC in question had an issue with bullpups so rather than using the weapon he just wanted the sight. After some discussion it was agreed that, in theory, an adaptation was possible.

Now for my question.

What kind of combat optics where available in the 80's and 90's? To my knowledge the only weapons that had combat optics as standard where the British L85 and L86 and the Austrian Steyr Aug.

I'm not aware of when the Americans began using ACOGs and reflex sights or at what point the Russians adapted the SVD's PSO-1 sight for other AK models.

[B.T.]

Hi 95th Rifleman,

I had some troubles with mentioned optics myself. In that thread:
http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.p...cs+suppressors
some points are discussed.
Maybe this helps a little!

[cavtroop]

In my experience, I never once saw optics on a personal weapon at any time from 90-98. 2/3rds of that was in the NG though, not sure what the RA was doing in the mid-90's, but I don't think they had optics excepting sharpshooters/snipers then, either. The M16A2's carrying handle wasn't removable, so it would make optics interesting to mount though I'm sure there are solutions. I'd bet that a decent gunsmith would be able to mount the SUSAT just fine though, given a decent set of tools and a few hours (grind off carrying handle, somehow mount SUSAT, etc).

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by cavtroop

In my experience, I never once saw optics on a personal weapon at any time from 90-98. 2/3rds of that was in the NG though, not sure what the RA was doing in the mid-90's, but I don't think they had optics excepting sharpshooters/snipers then, either. The M16A2's carrying handle wasn't removable, so it would make optics interesting to mount though I'm sure there are solutions. I'd bet that a decent gunsmith would be able to mount the SUSAT just fine though, given a decent set of tools and a few hours (grind off carrying handle, somehow mount SUSAT, etc).

That was my group's solution, they ground off the carry handle and foresight and rigged a susat onto the upper reciever.

[Eddie]

Aimpoints have been around since the Son Tay Raid during Vietnam. Those early ones were 100mph taped to the carrying handles of the M16s/CAR-15s, but they worked. After that adapters started popping up.

As for regular Army Infantry in the mid-80s, optics weren't widespread as stated, but they were in existence. Thus, it could be argued that an Operational Needs Statement was submitted for the Player Character's unit to purchase optics for their Soldiers.

((Aside: Haven't we already discussed this here? Or am I remembering from the now-defunct 93 Games forums?))

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Eddie

((Aside: Haven't we already discussed this here? Or am I remembering from the now-defunct 93 Games forums?))[/I]

We have indeed. In fact, you've posted before almost word for word what you've just posted here. That's no criticism on my part though. You're still right

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Targan

We have indeed.

Sorry, my bad. Work eats up my conscience thoughts so much anymore that I remember saying/writing stuff, I just don't remember when or where.

[cavtroop]

You can do a Google Image Search for 'M16A2 optics' to see how the optics are mounted to the top of the carrying handle (which I imagine would stink for ergonomic purposes), or see some custom mounts that put the optics in front of the handle. But again, excepting in rare circumstances as mentioned by Eddie, the average grunt in the late 80's had nothing but iron sights.

This is my personal favorite:

http://www.schelin.org/ikonboard/smilies/whatm16.jpg

[95th Rifleman]

So it was just the British army that had combat optics as standard issue?

[Eddie]

I'm not knowledgeable enough about other militaries in that timeframe, but I know the US didn't. The only "widely-issued" US rifle optic in those days was the AN/PVS-4. Notice the quotations around widely-issued...

[weswood]

In '92 when I was in the reserves, one of our STA platoon guys had a small scope mounted to his M16. I've seen mounts that fit in the groove of the carry handle and had a screw for the hole in the handle. The mount had a hole in it so you could use thw iron sights as well as the scope.