How do you do fire fights? Maps?

[Michael Lewis]

This will be my first time playing TW 2013. How do you do fire fights? Do you use a map? A grid? I've never ran a rpg where distance is such a factor. I'm used to fantasy type games where distance is not a factor.

I started looking at google maps at Kalisz and looked for an interesting place to start. I liked this starting point scene http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=2882

I feel like I'm putting way too much effort into this.

What do more experienced GM do?

Michael

[Chris]

I use an old 1 inch square grid D&D map that is inside a poster frame so I can write on it with wet / dry erase markers. I use a 10 meter (~30 feet) per square scale outside and a 2 meter (~5 feet) scale inside. PCs and important NPCs have painted 1:72nd scale minis. Others use unpainted minis or dice... I have a whole handful of large Red D6s with the Yellow Star for generic Ivan and several end to end to make an improv tank or APC.

For a fixed battle, I'll draw up a map of the area before hand on gaming paper like I did for the POW camp assault in my blog at the bottom.

For indoor maps, I'll sketch out a floor plan and use piles of dice to indicate features such as beds, tables, whatever.

Outdoor maps are looser. I sketch in major terrain features in a general way. "This is an area of woods, this is a ridge, here's the road, and any wrecks." But I don't detail trees or dips or whatnot. I assume if you're in the right area you can grab cover behind a tree or fold in the ground.

Anyway that's my system... YMMV

[Chris]

I just had another thought... two in one day!

I remember from playing Traveller with the LBB you used range bands rather than a grid. Take a sheet of lined paper and designate every line as 10, 25, 50 meters or whatever and handwave any lateral distance among the group as you're really only concerned with range to the enemy. This only really works with open terrain and road chases as you're not concerned with terrain and goes completely to pieces with area effect weapons, but it might help speed up small arms and chases.

Chris, again

[Cdnwolf]

I use a free program called autorealm.

http://autorealm.sourceforge.net/

[Michael Lewis]

So with a 1in=10 meters scale, would vehicles be 1 inch? I have the TW vol 2 boxed set which came with cardboard cut outs of tanks and such which are 1 in. and people which are 1/2 in.

What size would buildings be around?

Michael

[Michael Lewis]

Originally Posted by Cdnwolf

I use a free program called autorealm.

http://autorealm.sourceforge.net/

Thanks, but we don't have access to computer screens when we play.

[Cdnwolf]

Originally Posted by Michael Lewis

Thanks, but we don't have access to computer screens when we play.

Ummm you can print off the maps...

[Michael Lewis]

Yeah, but it sucks your print cartridge dry.

[stg58fal]

Right now I just draw things on note paper, or graph paper if I've got it with me. I have some minis, they're not all painted yet and I don't have a gaming mat. Maybe at some point. For right now, notebook paper will have to do.

[pmulcahy11b]

I mostly used a combination of maps from Squad Leader, the old SPI RPG/Wargame Commando, and maps from wargames (if the scale worked). Sometimes I used counters from wargames, but mostly I hand-drew counters or modified copies of counters from Squad Leader. I also covered maps with sheets of clear acetate (not the sticky kind) so markings could be made with dry-erase pens if necessary (you can even put blank paper under the acetate and draw whole maps on top of that).

Miniatures are OK, but the minimum scale most players and GMs (in my experience) prefer is HO/ 1/72. In short, while the game play is more realistic and easier to understand, the necessary space to conduct even a small firefight quickly becomes too big, and of course, there is the cost and the time it takes to build your own terrain features.

[B.T.]

Michael,

I've sent you an E-Mail. If you have questions, mail to me or PM.

B.T.

[Adm.Lee]

I use battlemats and wet-erase markers, which can be wiped off, for maps, and counters. The counters are often from Squad Leader or Last Battle. I used to have a sheet of blank counters, for writing PC names on them, as reading the finer ID writing on the Last Battle counters is now beyond me. Most NPCs get clumped into squad or half-squad counters, rather than individuals.

If I know the action will be taking place inside close quarters, then I get out the miniatures.

Something I used to do when I ran in a college classroom was to just sketch things out on a blackboard and chalk in the ranges from shooter to target. Somehow, that seems too fiddly on a battlemat, so I haven't been doing it. I may go back to that, as some fights take place at ranges longer than I have sheets.

[Tegyrius]

My suggestion:

Your FLGS should carry either wet- or dry-erase vinyl map sheets plus the appropriate markers. Both hex and grid patterns are available. Do a hand sketch on the map sheet as part of your pre-game preps.

Alternately, just hit up an office supply store for about a 2'x3' dry-erase board. Depending on how your gaming area is set up, you can either hang it on the wall and use it for reference for the room, or you can lay it flat on the table and put minis or counters directly on it (though you'll need to be somewhat careful about drawing to scale if you do this). I've always liked having multiple dry-erase surfaces when running Reflex (or other system with fluid initiative) because I can use a secondary one for initiative tracking.

- C.

[weswood]

In the past I've used everything from hand drawn maps to minitures on the table. Mostly mini's were used to denote PCs order of march and general location during fights. I didn't stick with scale for ranges and I've used all kinds of table garbage for oponents (this pencil is a T-72, it's 200 meters from you. This big black D6 is a machinegun nest, it's 150 meters away, even though said object may only be 1 foot from the PCs).

I've got a ton of plastic 1/72 scale soldiers but not all are painted. But I haven't played T2K since I've collected the modern ones. Plastic soldiers are cheaper than metal, usually $12 for a box of 36 to 50. The hard part is finding Cold War era figures.

[Apache6]

I both wargame and RolePlay. T2K is a great game to crossover the hobby since building and modeling the wargaming components requires a small number of unique vehicles instead of a Battalion of 58 identical vehicles.

I'd recommend 20mm and 1/72 troops and 1/72 – 1/76, and even 1/87 scale vehicles are excellent for T2K.

Plastic figures are very convertable, or you can use a huge range of figures. In 1/72 the old Esci US Vietnam and NVA boxes as well as the Warsaw Pact troops make great figures. As do many HO scale civilians. You can easily do 'paint' conversions and a NVA figure with an AK-47 becomes a resistance fighter wearing blue jeans, hiking boots, and a flannel shirt…

As for vehicles, I think the larger scales work very well as they are fun to customize to reflect the ad-hoc nature of T2K. Toy Cars: "Matchbox type" also offer great ability to field commercial trucks, pickups, "technicals" and even bulldozers. I've converted two with plastictuct armor plating to represent expeident armored vehicles.

1/72 figures are commonly available at hobby stores or online. The below link is great to see what you are buying online.
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Michael Lewis

So with a 1in=10 meters scale, would vehicles be 1 inch? I have the TW vol 2 boxed set which came with cardboard cut outs of tanks and such which are 1 in. and people which are 1/2 in.

What size would buildings be around?

Michael

I use those vehicle counters too! The counters you have are intended for the GW outdoor scale where one inch squares were 8 meters. The men and vehicles aren't actually as big as the counters indicate. I choose to use 1 square = 10 meters because it is much easier to count range on the fly.

If you have those, you should salso have a sheet of buildings, emplacements, and rubble. Buildings are as big as their counters.

I almost never use the people tokens, they're too light and hard to maneuver for me... fumble fingers.

[headquarters]

I draw maps on paper. I used my Old squad leader maps before, but once or twice used its kinda used up with that particular group.

I also print out maps I find online sometimes.

Mostly its ink on paper though. And borrowing the kids crayons to indicate wooded areal or wetland etc.

Grid paper or graph paper is preferred. We sometimes use 20mm minis,but as someone said the map gets quite big when you have ranges over 100 yards.
Drawing on the map or using some sort of marker is our solution.

Looking forward to our next FtF . Trying out a new type of map.

[pmulcahy11b]

A map type that can be useful to use with miniatures are those made to go with Car Wars games (the microgame type, not the newer SJG or GURPS type, which often don't have printed maps). Sunday Drivers and Truck Stop are especially good ones for cityfights.

[pmulcahy11b]

How do you guys address the "fog of war" factor -- what the PCs can actually see or hear, what the bad guys can actually see or hear (this can even be broken down into a GM nightmare of what a particular PC or NPC can see, is someone mistakenly stalking or aiming in on his own buddies, etc). Sometimes you can use two maps, one for the players and one for the GM, but if you're using miniatures, that is pretty much impossible. So has anyone come up with a satisfactory solution?

[B.T.]

I usually use two maps:
1. the "gaming board", that everyone can see,
2. my personal sketch, that is hidden somewhere in the chaos behind my GM screen. I erase and work with a pencil on that sketch all of the time.

When we work with a board (as many of you, I use a "battle map" with an imprinted square-grid - I draw on it with "non-permanent markers"), I usually remove the tokens/miniatures for NPCs, that can not be seen by the players (Or I make shure, that the players know: These handfull of soldiers went into that house, but, off course, they don't know, if there are more evil-doers in the house, or not!).
Sometimes this is time consuming, because you relocate some of the miniature all of the time.
On the other hand: I want my players to enjoy gaming. Therefore I don't mind, that some things are a little simplified. In this case: The players can see, how many miniatures of Soviets have been removed.

I don't place miniatures for enemies, that have not been reckoned by the players. If, for example, a group of several enemies fire through a hole in a wall or a window, I dont tell the players, how many guys are behind that wall. And I make my rolls "hidden", what means: no one can see, what modifieres work. Those 3 bursts and 4 single shots could come from 2 fiends, or 7 fiends - my players don't know for shure!

In my group, this is seldom the case, but if the group splits in two parts with no line of sight, I split the group in two teams, actually sitting in different rooms. If someone fires into a direction, where he can not see a comrade of the other team, it is possible for them to hit one of their group members from the other team. Again time consuming, but it adds some tension to the play and is a permanent reminder, that the PCs communicate with one another.

[WallShadow]

In an effort to minimize effort we used what was handy--(usually unpainted) plastic Airfix/ESCI/Atlantic/etc figures, ROCO Minitanks and/or Matchbox/HotWheels vehicles, any pre-made buildings we had handy (HO Plasticville) or just carcboard boxes of the appropriate size and shape. The 20mm scale was handy enough to allow detail and yet be of manageable size. The occasional 6-sided dice were used to round out incidental potentially mobile items. I purchased a sheet of heavy plastic sheeting to use grease pencils on to designate streets, buildings, fire hydrants, streetlights, mailboxes....
To allow for a fog-of-war factor, to designate "bogies" we would use poker chips with the actual identity of the unit/vehicle/object taped to the underside. Only coming within a certain range would allow identification of the chip's identity

[Chris]

Re: Fog of War

I tend to hold enemy positions in my head without using a second map.

When enemies break contact, going into a house especially, I'll leave there marker in the building. More than once the group has mopped up a few pinned down troop and carefully advanced on an 'occupied' position to find the foe has legged it out the back door.

[Adm.Lee]

The fellow that runs Twilight games at Origins, Rnitze on this board, has used bottlecaps with named stickers on them to denote PCs, and uses empty cartridges for bad guys-- the size of the shell denotes the weapon carried.