privately owned Ferret Scout Cars

[Olefin]

Saw this site when I was searching google for information on the Ferret Scout Car - and found that not only are there are lot of Ferrets in private hands but that they are very affordable - less than many cars

http://www.ferret-fv701.co.uk/ferret_owners.htm

One piece of info in particular caught my eye there

"My Ferret has lived most of its "life" in Germany with the Royal Engineers. Coming back from the first Gulf War it was sold to the Belgian Company 'SABIEX' along with 250 other Ferrets of different marks. 'SABIEX' thought they could fix the cars up a bit and sell them to Africa - but no one was interested. So the Ferrets stayed in Belgium stored outdoors from 1993 to 2003 when I bought mine (some are still there). It looked bad and the bins and mudguards were badly rusted, but the car was original and untouched and technically sound. It took me two years to restore it, working on and off."

Great way for the French and the Belgians to get some armor to their forces quickly - a Ferret isnt much but its better than walking and very useful in places like Iraq and Senegal and other places their forces are being deployed into - let alone on patrol in Germany and Holland against partisans

also opens up another idea looking at where all these owners are - i.e. you are sent by MilGov in the US to clean up a local militia group that is causing trouble - and you find out once you run into them that they arent equipped with the usual beat up pickups or old jeeps but instead have a couple of nicely running and armed Ferrets that a local collector had and now are part of their forces

a very nasty surprise if you dont happen to have any anti-armor weapons on you

also could be used as a treasure - similar to the canon module Gateway to the Spanish Main where the guy had a M113 sitting in his garage and him dead in the front seat of it

[Legbreaker]

In Twilight, those Ferrets were probably repurchased by the British the moment Germany stepped over the Polish border. If nothing else, they'd be useful for training purposes at home.

[Olefin]

A lot of them were in private hands long before 1996, especially in places like the UK, US, Canada and the Netherlands. So having them in the hands of private citizens and thus something you could encounter in the hands of marauders or militia is a real possibility.

If you look at that site a lot of them had vehicles in their hands long before the War brings the Brits and the US into the war, with many of those Ferrets being retired in the late 1980's

That actually leads to an interesting question - there are a lot of operable tanks, APC's, IFV's, etc.. in private hands here in the US and elsewhere. So what happens to all the Shermans, Stuarts, Ferrets, M113's, etc.. that were sitting in the hands of collectors during the war?

Gateway to the Spanish Main shows at least one APC in the hands of a private collector and ready to be found as a "treasure" by the players in a forgotten garage.

There are definitely a significant amount of military vehicles in the US in the hands of collectors that are fully operational even to having live tubes. (can think of at least four Shermans off the top of my head that I know of in collectors hands that, given ammuntion, could still put a round on target with a live tube)

And that goes for a lot of guns - just recently saw an ad for a fully functional 57mm WWII anti-tank gun with a live tube

[Legbreaker]

There's quite a lot floating around here in Australia too including relatively recent model machines like Scimitars. A paintball range in Western Sydney even has a working (except for the weaponry) Centurion MBT sitting out the front.
"Come on, capture MY flag, I DARE you!"

[Olefin]

definitely can add a lot of flavor to the game

You and your party have been on foot now for several days since the HMMVW broke down and couldnt be repaired. You take refuge for the night in a house with a barn in the back of it. After a long search all you find that you can use are some sheets and towesl, a couple of cans of very old corn and a pack of matches.. and the dead owners in their beds, dead at least two years. Even though it is raining cats and dogs you decide to make the trek out to the barn.

As you open the door, you see it is filled with all kinds of junk. After a long search you uncover a large object covered by tarps and debris. You remove them and you find yourself staring at what looks likes a perfectly preserved M3 Halftrack. A continued search finds a trapdoor that leads down to three 50 gallon drums, still full of gasoline.

"looks like we are done walking boys!"

[Olefin]

Did some more research on Ferrets in the US and found that they are actually street legal to drive here and several owners drive them around on a regular basis - i.e. why transport one to a military vehicle show when you can register it legally as a legal vehicle and just drive it there?

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/d...al-117952.html

[dragoon500ly]

In Houston, Texas, there are 3 Daimler Dingos, a M3 scout car, at last count 5 halftracks and a M8 Greyhound armored car riding the streets and there is supposed to be a Saracen APC that was rebuilt and waiting on tags and permit.

So lots of possibilities!

[Legbreaker]

All of it close to useless and even perhaps dangerous to the crew and passengers on a modern battlefield of course, but if the opposition hasn't even got 50+ year old armour and/or AT weapons, they can still act as battlefield bullies!
Some armour can sometimes be worse than no armour at all by instilling a false sense of security.

[Olefin]

Keep in mind Leg that a Ferret may be old but its still very effective if the opposition is packing hunting rifles and shotguns - which would be what a lot of marauders would be armed with in the US. Or for that matter what is left of the Mexican Army if you are in the Southwest. And by 2001 modern AT weapons are pretty rare - and even if you find them if you arent trained how to use them they arent going to be that effective.

And I will take an armored car that can go 60 miles an hour and keep you safe from bullets any day over a pick up truck or SUV in a firefight

[Legbreaker]

And that's fine until overconfidence kicks in and you meet somebody with a .50 cal rifle. Not exactly impossible in the US.

[Olefin]

Leg - you keep saying stuff like "on a modern battlefield or guys carrying 50 caliber rifles"

Except by 2001 the modern battlefield machines are just about all gone - thats why old vehicles like Ferrets would be very effective

And yes there are 50's in the US - but not a lot of them - and the chances of running into one of them are pretty low - so again I would rather have a highly maneuverable armored car that can hit 60 miles per hour on the road while mounting a fifty of its own then be in a pick up or SUV

thats the beauty of the US - lots of collectors with all kinds of fun stuff to really be able to pull surprises on characters in US campaigns believably - "where the hell did they get a Sherman tank (Ferret)(Saracen)(M8 Greyhound)(etc..)?? " is something you can definitely see happening in the US in 2001 - or for that matter being found in the hands of the local Milgov, Civgov or New America units

"dont worry guys all those New America guys have is small arms - they can't hurt us" you say as your M113 turns the corner - and comes face to face with an operational Sherman tank and two Ferrets courtesy of the military vehicle collector who decided to join up with NA

[Legbreaker]

There's not just 50's around though that can do the job against a Ferret. The things only rated to protect against shrapnel, so it's possible a burst or two of 7.62 or thereabouts will result in a rather bad day.
Yes, some armour is often better than no armour, but care must be taken to not treat it like a tank or it will be lost.

[Olefin]

Leg its an armored scout car - no one is going to use it as a tank - for one tanks have actual guns not just a machine gun for armament

as such it excels at what it does - and has actual armor on it (especially in the later versions) that allow it to survive on a battlefield as a scout armored car - not a tank - which makes it superior to anyone who has no actual armor

and of course if it runs into a tank its dead meat - but hell that was true in the mid-50's when it was designed and deployed - same with AT weapons - but I dont think you are going to run into a lot of AT weapons or tanks in Dubuque or Boise

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Olefin

A lot of them were in private hands long before 1996, especially in places like the UK, US, Canada and the Netherlands. So having them in the hands of private citizens and thus something you could encounter in the hands of marauders or militia is a real possibility.

This assumes the v2 timeline, in which the Cold War ends in '91. In the v1.0 alternate timeline history, the Cold War didn't end, so a lot of stuff that, IRL was sold off to 3rd world countries or put on the open market- like those Ferrets, for example- would have remained in military reserve storage. I'm not trying to poo-poo the idea, but being as I favor the v1.0 timeline, I don't see quite as many MilSurp vehicles getting into civilians' hands.

As for the vulnerability of said light armor, is AP small arms ammo legal to buy in the U.S.?

[Olefin]

Also keep in mind the there are multiple versions of the Ferret

the original version only had armor to protect against splinters

The Mk.1/2 Daimler Ferret Armoured car had its frontal turret armor increased to 32mm. The hinged two-part hatch armor was 25mm thick

The Mark 2/3 received thicker side and rear hull plates, while the Mark 2/4 was an upgraded version with add-on welded appliqué armor panels on side and rear of the hull and turret. The Mark 2/5 was a conversion for earlier Mark 1s to the Mark 2/4 standard.

The Mark 3 had larger size tires, higher ground clearance, heavier armor, flotation screens and a stronger suspension.

The Mark 4 had an upgrade with the Alvis Saracen APC turret, and cal.30 Browning machine gun.

So thus it all depends on what version you have - all of them have been imported into the US - so while a Mk 1 has very little protection a Mark 3 or 4 can take on guys armed with 7.62mm ammo (7mm armor penetration) without having to worry much

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Raellus

This assumes the v2 timeline, in which the Cold War ends in '91. In the v1.0 alternate timeline history, the Cold War didn't end, so a lot of stuff that, IRL was sold off to 3rd world countries or put on the open market- like those Ferrets, for example- would have remained in military reserve storage. I'm not trying to poo-poo the idea, but being as I favor the v1.0 timeline, I don't see quite as many MilSurp vehicles getting into civilians' hands.

As for the vulnerability of said light armor, is AP small arms ammo legal to buy in the U.S.?

Actually they are available in both timelines - the Ferrets were already being disposed of by the mid-80's - so you will see them in civilian hands in either timeline - now if you look at V1 versus V2 you could see a V1 timeline having the ones being disposed of being the older ones - so basically Mk1, Mk1/2 and Mk2/3 whereas with the V2 you would see almost anything being around

So again keep in mind what timeline you are looking at accordingly and adjust what might be available

the AP SLAP ammo was only issued to the US Army - have no idea if it ever got sold commercially

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Raellus

This assumes the v2 timeline, in which the Cold War ends in '91. In the v1.0 alternate timeline history, the Cold War didn't end, so a lot of stuff that, IRL was sold off to 3rd world countries or put on the open market- like those Ferrets, for example- would have remained in military reserve storage. I'm not trying to poo-poo the idea, but being as I favor the v1.0 timeline, I don't see quite as many MilSurp vehicles getting into civilians' hands.

As for the vulnerability of said light armor, is AP small arms ammo legal to buy in the U.S.?

Keep in mind Raellus that a lot of what you see in armor collectors hands todays was surplus long before a V1 or V2 timeline would have made much different - what you really will see as to the difference would be Soviet equipment availability (except for stuff that might have been bought from Egypt or Africa) for V1 versus V2

Looked around on google and found multiple references to Ferrets in civilian hands here in the US prior to 1987 for instance - the movie Short Circuit made in the US in 1986 had a Mk1 Ferret that the production company rented

[Olefin]

FYI great site for all things Ferret

http://www.ferret-fv701.co.uk/

has lots of info on various vehicles, pictures, specs you name it - definitely has stuff you could use to flesh out a vehicle for a campaign so its not just "you find a Ferret AC in drive able condition"

[Olefin]

FYI just another post-script to how many tanks may be in private ownership in the US - this is a 2013 article in the WSJ - you need a subscription to post the whole thing but here is an interesting excerpt:

"Weapons buffs may stock semiautomatics in the gun safe. But nothing makes a statement like having an Army tank in the garage. …there are several hundred to 1,000 private tank owners in the U.S. …Brothers Ken and Gene Neal, owners of Bullet Proof Diesel, a truck-parts manufacturer in Mesa, Ariz., once took their 1966 British Chieftain tank into the desert and joyfully backed it over a rusty car. When their insurance agent inquired about their plans for the tank, the Neal brothers emailed back, “We are going to use it to take over the world.” Says Ken Neal, 45: “A tank is cool.”"


https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001...02480951570270

[ChalkLine]

Home Guard units may have these vehicles.

In Australia in WW2 a proposal that individuals would donate their trucks for homeland war service was floated and that they would be compensated when the war was over. A similar situation can easily happen anywhere.

What a Ferret or similar can do is convoy security or patrol work. As Legbreaker says they're not much good for battlefield use but pitched battles are pretty much things of the past when they would be called for for service

[Olefin]

completely agree with many older vehicles - you arent taking these into combat against modern tanks - not unless you want to re-enact Turtledove's Lizard books (i.e. where the US and Nazi's had to use WWII tanks to fight the equivalent of an M60 or M1 tank that alien's had and lost anywhere from six to ten per Lizard tank they took out) - what you are doing is patrol and security work and possibly using them in combat against troops that lack armor or anti-tank weapons - i.e the local NA chapter that is well armed with hunting rifles and shotguns but has nothing that can penetrate even old armor