OT: US armored vehicle manufacturers winding down

[Targan]

Interesting article:
Armor industry finds itself at turning point

[stormlion1]

We are going to pay for this in the future. The skill set to maintain and build these tanks will disappear as the men who know them and retire and the younger generation never learns them from those older folks. What's worse is the equipment will be sold and scrapped to make ends meet for the company's and will also disappear.

[Olefin]

Lived it myself - used to be working at an armored vehicles mfg until September - but no more orders means no more job - finally got something else last week - so no longer among the unemployed - but not armored vehicle work unfortunately.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

We are going to pay for this in the future. The skill set to maintain and build these tanks will disappear as the men who know them and retire and the younger generation never learns them from those older folks. What's worse is the equipment will be sold and scrapped to make ends meet for the company's and will also disappear.

That pretty much happens when any war ends that the US is involved in. Then, when a war comes up, its a chinese fire drill to get back on track again.

[Olefin]

agree with you totally there on the chinese fire drill - the whole process of getting MRAP's out to the units was done sloppilly and too quickly - and as a result many are probably better to be scrapped than try to fix them to work right - we seem to think all the time we dont need to study war anymore - and then end up with badly equipped forces at the outset

[Webstral]

It's a tough one, for sure. Lots of factors are involved. Knowing which skills are going to be needed in war requires a very good crystal ball. I have read much opinion that the MBT is a relic on a battlefield menaced by attack helicopters, superb guided munitions, and the ordinary land mine. I don't know if it is, but it would be a great irony to go to great lengths to preserve the capacity for building a new fleet of MBT only to discover that like the Maginot Line they are designed to fight a war that will never come.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Yeah but in this day and age "preserving the capacity" means keeping tooling packed in heavy grease, computers stored in ESD/climate controlled facilities and handy copies of all the manuals on how to run them on microfiche. It's not like we're talking about the preservation of a whole fleet of battleships.

[Olefin]

Its not quite as easy as just preserving the tooling and the data - building armored vehicles is a lot different than building cars, especially when you consider how few really new vehicles are being built. The new versions of Bradleys, M88's and M109's are basically recycled older vehicles with changes made to old hulls.

To deal with them you need the knowledge of the people who have built them over the years, especially as many of those vehicles have been modified extensively or repaired and dont match the drawings anymore.

Plus skills like welding armor need to be preserved or they are lost.

Thats why the USN has kept its sub production going as they have - to preseve the people skills for as long as possible knowing that when they are gone it will be very hard if not impossible to get them back again.

[Targan]

Congrats on finding work again Olefin. It sucks to be out of a job.

[stormlion1]

One of the biggest problems is that even the equipment to create the very hulls of these AFV's is disappearing. Once a manufacturer isn't getting orders for them, he will retool and sell off what he doesn't need. Its not like the Government will show up at his door, give him money to store that equipment and expect him to do so. No, the orders will stop, he memo will show up saying "Store it on your own dime" and the manufacturer will scrap it or stick the equipment under a tarp and let it rot or sell it for scrap.
Next thing you know, we have a Chinese fire drill to prepare again. And politicians blaming each other for the state of things, even though its those same politicians that let things get that bad in the first place. Personally I think we should be making those AFV's and selling them on the export market. Other countrys do it and turn a hefty profit, so the US should too.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Targan

Congrats on finding work again Olefin. It sucks to be out of a job.

Thank you Targan - much appreciated - it wasnt fun - and employers know they have us over a barrel - took me a while to get a job where they actually offered a salary that wasnt an insult.