The USS Retribution a historic sailing ship impressed into US Navy use.

[Apache6]

Still painted with her pre-war name, the Star of India, the USS Retribution was a historic ship used as a museum in San Diego. On the 4th of July in 1998 (about a month after the Mexicans seized San Diego, she was impressed into the US Navy being used for both cargo and logistics operations and serving as a Navy Special Operations Warfare (SEALs) support platform. The ship executed a number of daring raids in both Mexican occupied territory and Mexico proper. She later sailed throughout the Pacific to resupply or bring home groups of Americans.

Originally built on the Isle of Man (UK), she was launched on 14 November 1863, as the Euterpe. She made many relatively uneventful voyages to India, before being displaced by steamers after the opening of the Suez Canal. In 1871 she began twenty-five years of carrying passengers and freight to New Zealand, each voyage going eastward around the world before returning to England. In 1897, after 21 round-the-world trips, Euterpe was sold, first to Hawaiian owners, then in 1899 to the Pacific Colonial Ship Company of San Francisco, California, from 1898 to 1901 she made four voyages between the Pacific Northwest, Australia and Hawaii carrying lumber, coal and sugar. In 1901, as the Star of India, she began to carry fishermen, cannery workers, coal and canning supplies each spring from Oakland, California to Nushagak in the Bering Sea, returning each fall with holds full of canned salmon. She was laid up in 1923 after 22 Alaskan voyages. In 1926, Star of India was sold to the Zoological Society of San Diego, California, as the centerpiece of a planned museum, the Depression and World War II caused that plan to be canceled. Starting in 1959 she was restored, progress was slow, but in 1976, Star of India finally put to sea again. From 1976 to 1999 she was the star of Maritime Museum of San Diego, being fully seaworthy, and sailing at least once a year.

When Mexican forces occupied San Diego, Senator Barberela Pugalist, a former mayor of San Diego, insisted that Mexican Forces intentions were to provide humanitarian relief effort required due to the effects of Nuke strikes in Los Angeles area. Having been convinced of the intentions, she declared, San Diego an open city and demanded that US Forces in Southern California not oppose Mexican “relief forces.” US Navy and Marine Corps assets in the San Diego area withdrew, mostly to San Francisco, though some, including the SEAL training cadre from Coronado, withdrew to Catalina Island.

In the San Diego area, the occupation was initially peaceful. Once the Mexican forces had maneuvered to position where they could control the area, it quickly became obvious that the intent was to permanently reclaim, San Diego, and ethnically cleanse the region. Violence against the citizens of San Diego began around 10 June. Soon after the occupation, but turning into a torrent on the night of the 11 - 12 June, an exodus of small boats fleed San Diego and other coastal communities. The Mexican Navy deployed frigates to drive the boats back, sinking several and confiscating others, often throwing the owners overboard many without life preservers. On 19 June, two Mexican frigates were sunk by the US Navy destroyer; USS The Sullivans. This action was coordinated with attacks against Mexican forces guarding the numerous marinas, by a mixed force of law enforcement officials, veterans and local volunteers organized and led by small numbers of SEALs.

In coordination with ‘volunteers” from the Maritime museum, the SEALs took control of the Star of India and sailed her out of San Diego harbor at 0430, despite intense machine gun fire from Mexican soldiers guarding the Coronado bridge. The Star of India sailed to Catalina Island where damage was repaired and she was upgraded, receiving a more powerful generator, and modern communications and navigation equipment, pulled off a ship who’s hull was compromised when the shock wave from the Longbeach nuke drove her aground. She was equipped with a single pedestal mounted 76mm/62 caliber gun mounted on her bow as well as four .50 cal MGs. She was not designed to be a primary combat ship, but was equipped with 4 x 17 Meter rubber hulled inflatable boats which was often used to land SEALs and other raiding parties ashore.

Just a week later she recaptured the Very Large Crude Carrier (VLCC) the Knock Nevis, a ship which belonged to Exxon, but had been captured by Mexican forces and was being sent South to Encinitis as war booty, loaded with refined fuel. It’s capture at Sea earned Commander Tracy Gonzalez, a loyal Mexican-American, a Silver Star.

This was only the first of many amazing feats done by the “Ghost Fleet” an eclectic mix of active duty Navy personnel (including a handful of SEALs), retired Sailors and Marines and local volunteers, which operated a diverse range of small craft including sail powered yachts, against Mexican forces and later pirates. Many of them sported a dazzle camouflage paint job. The Retribution bore that paint job between Sept 1998 – Jan 2001.

The Mexican Federal Government always referred to the Ghost Fleet as Pirates. Three times between Oct 1998 and March 1999, the Mexican Navy conducted indiscriminate and military ineffective bombardment of the City of Avalon. They launched an abortive amphibious assault against Catalina Island in Feb 2000, which failed after intense fighting resulting in the sinking
of the last loyal ships of the Mexican Pacific Flotilla when they were ambushed by two speed boats that had been armed with torpedo launchers, turning them into a type of Patrol Torpedo (PT) boats.

While in truth the campaign was primarily designed to secure access to fisheries, The Mexican Federal Government built a major part of their 1999 propaganda campaign around showing how they were establishing law and order in the newly reclaimed provinces, the spectacular failure of the heavily hyped operation did not contribute to the perception of legitimacy and was a contributing factor to the collapse of that Government.

The Ghost Fleet operated primarily out of Catalina Island but also had support and contacts on other the Channel Islands and along the coast of Southern California and the West Coast of Mexico.

They USS Retribution, was the largest of four sailing vessels, the Ghost Fleet contributed to MILGOV efforts to both resupply and bring home groups of Americans located in various locations throughout the Pacific, she made three sail powered trips to South Korea, Australia and Singapore. This had a secondary purpose of "showing the flag" and reestablishing relations with allies and reopening trade.

While in Singapore, the SEALs assigned to the Retribution, were responsible for placing the limpet charges which sank the infamous Soviet commerce raider, the October Revolution, who was moored nearby port disguised as a Norwegian Trade Ship.

[Olefin]

Love the idea of MilGov using Catalina Island as a stronghold off the Pacific Coast - and considering the almost total lack of amphib ability that the Mexican Navy had they could have held it pretty easily against any attack

[swaghauler]

There are about half a dozen "Tall Ships" in the US right now that are "Deep Water" sea worthy and Coast Guard Rated as such. The Constitution would be quite a decent combat vessel against other sailboats with modern weapons. All of the cannon on the Brigg Niagra are fully functional. I actually crewed her as a gunner shortly after her recommissioning in the early 90's (you can see our handiwork with her cannon in the Navel Museum in Erie). The Baltimore would be another. These ships have the advantage of having "auxiliaries" (hidden motors used for docking and emergency propulsion), radar (for all weather navigation), and modern communications.

More importantly, they don't need fuel to sail to Europe.

[LT. Ox]

Or more important to the GAME it would have to have been at sea to escape the Nuke at Martinez.

[Apache6]

Lt Ox:

What ship has to escape the nuke at Martinez? The Star of India is in San Diego, which I dont' think got nuked in cannon. Martinez is near San Franscisco. Is there annother tall ship in San Fran? That could be added to the ghost fleet.

[Olefin]

San Diego didnt get nuked - San Fran did but make sure you have the nuke blast in the right area near the oil refineries

Actually thats one thing the game didnt mention - i.e. the original Constitution - it has the replica one used in the Caribbean but the real one's fate is never mentioned - and you are right it could be one hell of a ship to have against other sail powered ships

[LT. Ox]

Originally Posted by Apache6

Lt Ox:

What ship has to escape the nuke at Martinez? The Star of India is in San Diego, which I dont' think got nuked in cannon. Martinez is near San Franscisco. Is there annother tall ship in San Fran? That could be added to the ghost fleet.

The California maritime Academy in Vallejo Ca. had a tall ship but looking now using Goggle Maps, it is a steamer. I do not know when they changed but I grew up seeing a tall ship there for years.
I know it was there in 1970’s but???
Sorry for the confusion.

[Legbreaker]

Note the game materials only mention nukes greater than 0.5 megatons.
There's nothing to say smaller warheads did not (and probably did) hit many more targets of military, logistic and communications importance.
Shipyards, ports, etc are bound to be amongst these additional targets - it's up to the individual GM/Referee to decide which ones and how hard.

[Olefin]

The game was very specific about nuclear targets that were hit in the US - for instance in PA the only nuclear attacks, by canon, in the state are the ones mentioned specifically in Howling Wildnerness and the Allegheny module - thus while the idea of smaller nuclear warheads being used could have happened there is nothing in any of the canon materials about the US (which cover much of the country) showing that any were ever used

considering most of the Russian nukes were ICBM or cruise missile delivered they probably didnt use much of anything below 300kt - the smaller tactical stuff was most likely used exclusively in Europe and China and Iran

as always a GM can choose to make the war worse if he or she wishes to do so and add as many nuclear weapon detonations as they desire

[Legbreaker]

WRONG!

Howling Wilderness page 10
Annotated Target Listing
With certain exceptions, only places that received .5 megaton or more are covered here.

Of course any GM is entitled to not bother hitting the US (one of, if not the major players on the western side of the conflict) with any more nukes, even though most of the rest of the world received plenty.
To me though it doesn't make any sense to leave the US relatively unscathed compared to their less powerful allies.

[Olefin]

the US got hit very hard if all you use is Howling Willdnerness - I wouldnt call the amount of nuke detonations we took to be lightly hit

It was a major hit that was more than enough to cause the breakdown in society that affected the US - remember the Soviets were not trying to have a general all out exchange - hitting a lot more US targets would have defintiely led to the US emptying their silos at the Soviets and basically the end of civilization worlwide

thats why they didnt nuke NYC directly or Chicago or LA or Philly - they hit the oil refineries not the city centers - even in DC they went for specific targets for the nukes -

look at the modules - no nukes in Boston, no nukes in NYC itself, no nukes in Chicago, no nukes in Miami -

as for the rest of the world - Poland, Korea, China, Germany,Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and certain parts of the Soviet Union took one hell of a beating with tactical nukes because they were battlefields pure and simple - the US, with the exception of Alaska and the Southwest wasnt - and Mexico didnt have any nukes to use on us

that is why we were hit more lightly than Europe or China in your words - but that "light" hit cost the US half its population - thats hardly a light hit or relatively unscathed

a country that gets decimated in the Roman days loses 10 percent of its population - we had that happen five times over - I dont call a 50 percent population hit being relatively unscathed

[LT. Ox]

It is all relative, di the nuke kill fifty percent or did the EMP blast do its job?
GAME says this and that happened and so many left this mortal coil and this is what you have left to work with.
I can dispute the numbers, make that, we can dispute the numbers and the hows and whys that might happen if the events were to happen as described but your point is well taken, tactical nuke use would create a hell of a lot of problems over territory that is in dispute, strategic use while devastating would not leave the same ground effects.
Which is worse and how do we determine which is which?
Let us debate that some more

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Note the game materials only mention nukes greater than 0.5 megatons.
There's nothing to say smaller warheads did not (and probably did) hit many more targets of military, logistic and communications importance.
Shipyards, ports, etc are bound to be amongst these additional targets - it's up to the individual GM/Referee to decide which ones and how hard.

Yes, a thousand times yes. I've mentioned these points many times before. It's actually a really helpful feature because it means that individual GMs can decide in their campaign to have nuked pretty much any location NOT specifically mentioned to be completely intact. It gives individual GMs flexibility in their campaigns without breaking canon (whether that matters to them or not is entirely up to them).

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Olefin

look at the modules - no nukes in Boston, no nukes in NYC itself, no nukes in Chicago, no nukes in Miami -

I think you've missed the point of what Legbreaker was saying. Only those targets that received half a megaton or more, are listed. Any target that got less than 0.5Mt is not listed.

[kato13]

The BYB (2.2) and Howling Wilderness actually do list sub 500kt strikes as part of the list. They list five of them. 2 in LA, 2 in TX (probably from the same MIRV) and one for DC

IIRC in the real world less than 5% of the USSR warheads on SLMBs and ICBMs were sub 500kt so the numbers match up when you consider there were 84 strikes listed.

Of course anyone can modify the this anyway they want for their game. The text says that "With certain exceptions, only places that received .5 megaton or more are covered here" so that certainly does allow for flexibility. My personal thought is that fewer than 20 additional strikes would be seen as the USSR did not focus on sub 500kt warheads in the real world.

Edit. Im glad I triple checked this as my database was missing the Shreveport, LA: Industrial facilities (250 Kt) strike.
Edit 2. Nope it was in there but listed as 250kt rather than the 4 others which are listed as .25Mt. For some reason the text in both sources has the same listing idiosyncrasy in how they display.

[Olefin]

I think people somehow think that areas that weren't hit with nukes somehow were fine and dandy and came out of the war intact - thus we had better have more nuke targets in the US or somehow it is stronger than it should be

all you have to do is look at Last Submarine to see how far that is from the truth - Rhode Island, Boston, New London - no nukes hit anywhere near them - and yet all three areas are devastated by the war

and that module offers a real insight into what the Soviets didn't hit in the war - if the Soviets were really looking to hit shipyards then why is New London intact? New London is the primary sub base for the US on the East Coast and yet its completely intact until the riots destroy it.

An oversight? Hardly - having it intact supports the canon if the Soviets are going after refineries and command centers and the like.

another case is PA - two modules back up that the only nuke targets in PA were the ones in HW - that no other nukes hit the state - but if the Russians are hitting vital military targets then why no nukes on York PA to take out M88, M109, M8 and Bradley production let alone the Caterpillar and Harley plants there? Or on Allentown PA to take out the Mack Trucks facilities? Three Mile Island? Heck not even the Army War College at Carlisle or the Naval Supply Depot in Mechanicsburg. Heck they didnt even hit the state capital - in fact just about all the state capitals are intact and if you are really trying to disrupt a nation leaving Harrisburg, Albany, Richmond etc.. standing doesn't make sense - especially as those states are vital to the US war effort - heck Florida got NUKED if you read Urban Guerrilla yet they didn't hit Tallahassee after basically destroying huge areas of the state

If all those places weren't hit then you have to assume that the strikes in the US are most likely limited to what you see in HW - and that they were more than enough, combined with the disruptions of electricity and fuel, the riots, the wide spread panic, etc.. to damage the US so badly that by mid 1998 the Mexican Army could legitimately capture large areas of the Southwest.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Olefin

I think people somehow think that areas that weren't hit with nukes somehow were fine and dandy and came out of the war intact - thus we had better have more nuke targets in the US or somehow it is stronger than it should be

Another quote from howling wilderness which IMO supports the thought that unrest rather than more nukes led to a great amount of destruction.

"The exclusion of a city from this list (the strike list mentioned above) does not mean that it is intact. Civil unrest, hostile military action and other factors have caused severe damage in regions otherwise untouched by the war."

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by kato13

Another quote from howling wilderness which IMO supports the thought that unrest rather than more nukes led to a great amount of destruction.

"The exclusion of a city from this list (the strike list mentioned above) does not mean that it is intact. Civil unrest, hostile military action and other factors have caused severe damage in regions otherwise untouched by the war."

I would think especially after most of the remaining military units either got pulled to the Pacific Northwest to stop the drive on Seattle or down to stop the Mexicans. With them gone and electricity generation almost completely stopped and no fuel - things must have gotten very down and very dirty very quickly in any large urban area.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by kato13

The BYB (2.2) and Howling Wilderness actually do list sub 500kt strikes as part of the list. They list five of them.

These are the exceptions to the rule. It even states "With certain exceptions".