Your favourite weapons - Soviet/Russian

[StainlessSteelCynic]

To go along with the favourite US weapons thread, I figured perhaps we should have a few more such topics, so here's a thread for you to tell us about your favourite Soviet/Russian weapons.

For me, I've always kinda liked the RPD light MG and the SVD rifle but my favourite would have to be the 9x39mm VSS 'Vintorez' silenced, medium range, sniper rifle. I kinda like the Stechkin APS as well (if you really must use 9x18mm, might as well use it in bursts or full auto!)

VSS rifle

[Matt Wiser]

AKM/AKMS rifle, then the AK-74 and its family.

[CDAT]

I would have to say the PPSH-41, we had one in Iraq and it was kind of fun, the AK's that we had would were not worth their weight in sand. When people say that you can mistreat the AK and it will keep on trucking my experience with them is that is not true.

[Silent Hunter UK]

The Stechkin... What?

[Draq]

Kind of an unfair question to me. I love weapons in general. Pact, Soviet, western, Asian... But if I had to pick... An SKS and tokarev. Or akm and makarov. Most definitely the rex-412 .357

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by CDAT

I would have to say the PPSH-41, we had one in Iraq and it was kind of fun, the AK's that we had would were not worth their weight in sand. When people say that you can mistreat the AK and it will keep on trucking my experience with them is that is not true.

Soviet practice was to give the worn out stuff away for free. Add slipshod maintenance to that and you have a 4-5kg club depending on the model. I like the AK74, PMM pistol. If the Pk had disintegrating links, I'd use it.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

Soviet practice was to give the worn out stuff away for free. Add slipshod maintenance to that and you have a 4-5kg club depending on the model. I like the AK74, PMM pistol. If the Pk had disintegrating links, I'd use it.

Not worn out when issued, but when the IP (Iraqi Police) gave it back to the State Department it was trash, took them less then a year to take the AK's and Glock's from new to destroyed. The RSO then gave them to us to completely destroy so that no parts whatsoever could be used (i.e. Explosively and/or Thermate).

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Silent Hunter UK

The Stechkin... What?

I never said it was any good, just that I sort of like it!

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by CDAT

Not worn out when issued, but when the IP (Iraqi Police) gave it back to the State Department it was trash, took them less then a year to take the AK's and Glock's from new to destroyed. The RSO then gave them to us to completely destroy so that no parts whatsoever could be used (i.e. Explosively and/or Thermate).

Oh good God! Anything else I'd say would be ban material.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

Oh good God! Anything else I'd say would be ban material.

We were able to figure out what happened to the Glocks, but never could the AK's. The issue with the Glocks was the ammo that they were using, they had a fair number of squib rounds, it would get stuck in the barrel and then the next one would pop it out, after doing this so many times the barrel bulged and then when the slide went back the pistol locked up. So no a case of the Glock being a bad firearm, it is a very sturdy one, I do not know of any other firearm that would do that something like 15-20 were turned it the first time and not a single one had blown up. The AK's never did find out what was the issue, they were very dirty and you had to use a hammer to open the bolt but even after you got them open they would not function correctly. So just in case people were thinking that I was saying that Glocks and AK's suck never use them bla bla. That is not what I am trying to say, I am saying that I think (based on real world experience) that the reputation of the AK is blown way out of proportion, just like I will still run in to guys who say that they would never use an AR as it will jam on you if you look at it wrong. An AK if treated right (any probably needs less TLC) will treat you right, but like any machine if you abuse it it will break.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Just going back over this thread and saw there's a few points I'd like to add.

I agree with CDAT, abuse any AK too much and it's gonna be screwed. I've seen some behaviour in the Middle East that almost made me cry. For instance, one time in Egypt I saw some Tourism & Antiquities police officers attempting to catch water runoff during a rainy day with the slanted part of the muzzle brake on their AKM's. They were having a great time, laughing about who could catch more water and so on. Never saw them clean it out afterwards but I really, really hoped that they did and that I just didn't see them do it... but who really knows? These guys were plain clothes so they weren't the typical, poorly educated farmboys who get conscripted into the lower echelons of the police.

For as much as the PK is a solid performer there is one thing I just can't get used to. Even the non-disintegrating belt I can live with but I just can't get used to it's righthand feed. I've trained on various Western MGs dating from the 1940s up to the 1990s and all of them were standard with lefthand feed, the PK's righthand feed is just too alien for me!

Draq, I hear ya loud & clear but I started this topic as a companion to the fav US weapons thread cos we were obviously limited to just one nations smallarms and, like you, I'm interested in smallarms from everywhere.
I too like the SKS but it's not my favourite and I agree too that the MP412 AKA REX-412 is particularly interesting, I'd like one out of curiosity value if nothing else!

[LT. Ox]

It seems that times change but people do not.
My experience with the AK started in US Army Class room then to the field but that was Chicom manufacture and VC operated. Not the best of the best to say the least.
Hmm that may be politically incorrect but oh well. About that I f any of you read WEB Griffin you will understand what a Dinosaur is in connection to the Cold war.
Since the war I have avoided contact (pun intended) with that group except for a limited range testing for my Department. To me there are so many better weapons from the west that I have limited my ownership and use to those.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by CDAT

We were able to figure out what happened to the Glocks, but never could the AK's. The issue with the Glocks was the ammo that they were using, they had a fair number of squib rounds, it would get stuck in the barrel and then the next one would pop it out, after doing this so many times the barrel bulged and then when the slide went back the pistol locked up. So no a case of the Glock being a bad firearm, it is a very sturdy one, I do not know of any other firearm that would do that something like 15-20 were turned it the first time and not a single one had blown up. The AK's never did find out what was the issue, they were very dirty and you had to use a hammer to open the bolt but even after you got them open they would not function correctly. So just in case people were thinking that I was saying that Glocks and AK's suck never use them bla bla. That is not what I am trying to say, I am saying that I think (based on real world experience) that the reputation of the AK is blown way out of proportion, just like I will still run in to guys who say that they would never use an AR as it will jam on you if you look at it wrong. An AK if treated right (any probably needs less TLC) will treat you right, but like any machine if you abuse it it will break.

I know the weapon reps, I'm amazed at the eff-up.

[Milano]

If I may add my 2 cents, when I was in a Sgt was teaching us about cold climate survival, he took an AKM with a loaded magazine and put it in a snow bank. We left it there for a few weeks and when we had a land nav deal we went back. The Sgt had us dig out the AK to make a snow cave. Anyway, the bolt couldn't be budged and the magazine and catch had rusted really badly. He banged the mag out with his knife. He stepped on the charging handle like a motocross rider. Used a little CLP. Inserted a fresh mag. Chambered. Rocked off 30 rounds like nothing had happened! Unsafe, certainly, equally impressive though. I have almost no experience with them but I do remember that, and for that I do think that the AKs have something that an M16 doesn't.

As for cool weapons that I DO like my vote is for the Bizon. I don't know why. I am obviously wrong since they took it out of service. (I think) There is just something really peculiarly enticing about how it looks.

[mpipes]

My assault rifle choice would be the AK-107 and AEK-971. SMG is the Bizon-2, and for a pistol the Makarov. RPD and OTs-48 round out my choices.

[Draq]

The bizon... I'd love to give it a try, both 9mak and 762tok, and the good old ppsh.

[Draq]

And I agree, the reputations of the ak and at rifles are both usually exaggerated. The ak can handle more abuse than an ar, but its far from invincible. It's a gun and it still has to be maintained. Same with the ar... Although I'd still rather put a piston in it.

[Silent Hunter UK]

The AK series is also simple to use: children can (and sadly do) use it easily.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by Silent Hunter UK

The AK series is also simple to use: children can (and sadly do) use it easily.

I know that people use this saying all the time to say how great it is, but not sure what it really has to do with that. 200 years ago most kids (male at least) used firearms that are very easy to use, but also take more maintenance and my understanding is that keeping them maintained was not a big issue.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by CDAT

I know that people use this saying all the time to say how great it is, but not sure what it really has to do with that. 200 years ago most kids (male at least) used firearms that are very easy to use, but also take more maintenance and my understanding is that keeping them maintained was not a big issue.

True that...
I reckon the media is to blame.

I think the real reason we hear about children and AKs is that it was/is very good media fodder to keep the Western masses paranoid about Communism/terrorism.
We don't hear about children and ARs but that happens as well. For instance, there's photos of Karen rebels where some of their soldiers were 12-15 year olds armed with M16A1's. I've also seen photos of Saudi boys of 9 and 10yrs practicing with Jezails and of course there's untold numbers of boys and girls in the rural areas of the USA, Canada, Russia, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa etc. etc. who have been using firearms for hunting or killing pest animals but their rifles aren't attention grabbers for the media like the AK is!

[waiting4something]

My favorite soviet weapon of the time period would be the basic milled AK-47 with wood furniture. The AK-74 series is probably a better infantry weapon since it's recoil is a lot less, but something about the original milled guns is just cool.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Dragunov SVD.

[unkated]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

True that...
I reckon the media is to blame.

I think the real reason we hear about children and AKs is that it was/is very good media fodder to keep the Western masses paranoid about Communism/terrorism.

Sorry not buying.

The point had nothing to do with AKs or communists.

It had everything to do with kidnapping and forced conscription of 12-15 year-old boys, and forcing them to become soldiers in an absolutest army (obey or die) in a series of particularly ugly wars which made little difference between combatant and noncombatant.

Note, we aren't talking about cases of national survival; in most cases, these were 'civil' conflicts (though many of the dividing lines had ethnic or religious fault lines.

They were armed with AKs because those were the cheapest, most available arms. Some of the children were conscripted by communists, some in Mozambique (for example) were conscripted by anti-communists.

I don't know about you, but to me, kidnapping children to turn them into slave soldiers is wrong whoever does it or whatever they are armed with.

Uncle Ted

[Targan]

Originally Posted by unkated

I don't know about you, but to me, kidnapping children to turn them into slave soldiers is wrong whoever does it or whatever they are armed with.

Well at least they were outside in the fresh air, not like soft western kiddies on the couch with their Playstations and such. It's good for kids to have outdoor hobbies.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by unkated

Sorry not buying.

The point had nothing to do with AKs or communists.

It had everything to do with kidnapping and forced conscription of 12-15 year-old boys, and forcing them to become soldiers in an absolutest army (obey or die) in a series of particularly ugly wars which made little difference between combatant and noncombatant.

Note, we aren't talking about cases of national survival; in most cases, these were 'civil' conflicts (though many of the dividing lines had ethnic or religious fault lines.

They were armed with AKs because those were the cheapest, most available arms. Some of the children were conscripted by communists, some in Mozambique (for example) were conscripted by anti-communists.

I don't know about you, but to me, kidnapping children to turn them into slave soldiers is wrong whoever does it or whatever they are armed with.

Uncle Ted

I understand your point very well but I don't actually believe that child soldiers is the reason.
The Western media doesn't really give two shits about what happens in Africa or Asia unless it can get them ratings and child soldiers is not news worthy as far as they're concerned and in a sense, they are (tragically & unfortunately) right - because the majority of the Western public doesn't want to hear about kids in Africa, they want to hear about things that directly affect them.
Fact of the matter is, most Westerners wouldn't even know what child soldiers in Africa are armed with because they simply do not care.

[LT. Ox]

I wish to add a small bit to this part of the discussion and I am aware that we are taking things a bit far off topic.

Not all “child soldiers” are or have been kidnapped. I have observed them now in three areas of the world first hand and I can tell you that most are volunteers for one reason or another.

As with most young people they are swayed by those that provide the basic needs of any human.

Food, Clothing, shelter and companionship (Love) are very strong motivators anywhere but in war torn areas those prime needs are often met by people that have motives and agendas that are other than the welfare of the kids.

From Viet Nam to South America and Africa I have been involved with combat where young people were members of the fighting forces. It caused me and a number of people I was with no little moral difficulty because of our societal views on childhood. That became pronounced when we were forced to take action that resulted in the injury or death of those persons.

I was counseled later in life that not all people view life the way we do and that not all people think it is worse to take young life than that of some one that has reached an age that is acceptable to western sensibilities.

Back on target, you use what is cheap and available especially when you issue it to someone with limited ability.

[Bullet Magnet]

Originally Posted by LT. Ox

Not all “child soldiers” are or have been kidnapped. I have observed them now in three areas of the world first hand and I can tell you that most are volunteers for one reason or another.

Just my observation, but this sounds like youngsters in the US joining a gang. They feel that toting a sidearm makes them a "real man".

[LT. Ox]

Originally Posted by Bullet Magnet

Just my observation, but this sounds like youngsters in the US joining a gang. They feel that toting a sidearm makes them a "real man".

That age, as young as ten and then up to say sixteen, is very susceptible to Young adult, say twenty-two up to thirty influences anywhere.

I have seen it in Richmond Ca and Oakland Ca. Denver Co. and Dallas TX., Shreveport La. And Chicago IL. , Where young males mostly, but females more and more, become junior gang bangers as lookout and holders of drugs and money as well as weapons.
It is not so much survival here in the States as it is modeling what is perceived as successful people in your home street.
However add in the need to eat and have shelter of the war torn areas in the world and it is understandable that we have Boy Soldiers.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

There's a very significant factor in all this for those of us from 1st World Nations, we project our own ideas of childhood onto countries in South America, Africa and Asia. Just like their concept of the worth of human life is different to ours, so is their concept of childhood.

There's absolutely no doubt that what both unkated and LT. Ox mentioned is correct, young people have been seduced, coerced and forcibly conscripted into gangs and militias in South America, Africa and Asia and numbers of them do join more or less of their own free will as well, (though when the alternative is poverty or starvation, it's really not much of a choice).

We in the 1st World have extended childhood into the late teens but in other parts of the world, people in their early teens are considered younger adults and are expected to be adults. The mindset is completely different to ours, where we see a teenage child with a gun, they see a young adult. It's only been about 100 years since we in the West did the same. In the 1900-1920 period it was entirely normal for "boys" of 14+ to be doing men's work and it was entirely normal for "girls" of 13+ to be getting married and raising a family.
Life expectancy has increased significantly in the 1st World since then due to better dietary, medical and safety measures but that isn't the case in most 3rd World nations - Africa has an average life expectancy of approximately 60 so if you're "old age" is around 40-50, you can't wait until you're "middle aged" to get a job and raise a family.

What I'm saying is in no way meant to diminish the concerns about child soldiers that unkated raised, I'm just saying that in those parts of the world, they don't necessarily consider a 14, 12 or even a 10 year old as a child.

[Brother in Arms]

This is a tough one but Ill try it by caliber first

9x18mm,
Makarov
Stechkin

7.62x25mm
Tokarev
PPSH-41

7.62x39mm
SKS
AKM
AKMS
AK-104
RPD

5.45x39mm
AKS-74 Triangular folding stock has pretty high cool kid factor.
AK-74M

9x39mm
OTs-14 GROZA

7.62x54R
M38
SVT-40
SVD
SVDS
RP-46
PKM

Note:
I wouldn't love being armed with only an SKS or M38, but it would be just fine in a survival situation. Both would be ok if you going to be a sneaky Pete and shot and scoot. That being said I find the SVT-40 to be a highly underrated firearm it certainly has more grace than many battle, it feels like a hunting rifle and points and shoot really well.