Warships

[Tnchi2a]

So I've looked for quite a long time.
So I'll ask here if anyone has found or created a ruleset for large ships.
I have the Nautical/Aviation Handbook, but the rules in the book are more geared to the Aviation side.
And the rules in the Corebook are more geared to small boats.
What I'm looking for are rule for ships such as Cruisers, Destroyer, Etc.

[kato13]

I would use Harpoon also made by GDW. You would have to tweak it a bit to represent the decayed state of Warships, but it should work. It is even recommended by the authors (who contributed to both) in the Mediterranean Cruise module.

[Tnchi2a]

Harpoon is hard to find and to expensive.
I'm looking more for house rules that use the T2k rules.
But thanks for the advice.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

Harpoon is hard to find and to expensive.
I'm looking more for house rules that use the T2k rules.
But thanks for the advice.

The first edition rules had "The Last Sub" trilogy using Harpoon. The second edition didn't really cross that threshold. You might start some home brew large ship rules here. But thats going to have a Helluva huge damage chart. Perhaps an adaption of Megatraveller rules, since it's gun designer Fire, Fusion & Steel could make T2K2.2 weapons.

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

The first edition rules had "The Last Sub" trilogy using Harpoon. The second edition didn't really cross that threshold. You might start some home brew large ship rules here. But thats going to have a Helluva huge damage chart. Perhaps an adaption of Megatraveller rules, since it's gun designer Fire, Fusion & Steel could make T2K2.2 weapons.

FF&S is New Era, not Mega. It does not have rules for naval vessels; its four types of "Major Systems" are spacecraft, ground vehicles, lift vehicles, and aircraft.

There are rules for generating naval characters for T2K in Challenge 53 and sailing rules in Challenge 60.

There were also articles for naval vessels in Mega in Challenge 53, 54, and 60. They'd need to be adapted to TNE/T2K terminology and make sure the math is in line for things like power generation, but it should be feasible to create a supplement for FF&S using the Mega rules.

[copeab]

I some fast Googling, and outside of Harpoon, I can't find any modern naval miniature wargames. It appears those covering Age of Sail and WWII are the only really popular ones.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by The Dark

FF&S is New Era, not Mega. It does not have rules for naval vessels; its four types of "Major Systems" are spacecraft, ground vehicles, lift vehicles, and aircraft.

There are rules for generating naval characters for T2K in Challenge 53 and sailing rules in Challenge 60.

There were also articles for naval vessels in Mega in Challenge 53, 54, and 60. They'd need to be adapted to TNE/T2K terminology and make sure the math is in line for things like power generation, but it should be feasible to create a supplement for FF&S using the Mega rules.

Oops, got mixed up there.

[unkated]

You can look at these rules:

Shipwreck: Modern Naval Warfare

I seem to remember finding the rules online somewhere, but you will have to look.

Uncle Ted

[Cdnwolf]

Use Vassal and look up Cold War Modern Naval Warfare. They have a link to the current game owners which allow you to download the rules and pieces for free.

[Tnchi2a]

Well thank you all for your advice.
If anyone is still interested I'm going to start working on a Largeship combat system for Twilight 2k 2.2 in my off time.(Currently in college)
it will most likely be some form of modified FF&S engine.
I will put up the final produce here for all to use if they want.
Any advice/suggestions will be welcome. (except use something else)

[Tnchi2a]

Also found this to help its a well done wet navy document using FF&S

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

Also found this to help its a well done wet navy document using FF&S

That looks to be a conversion of the MGT Wet Navy rules from Challenge to FF&S. And yes, it is well-done (although I wish it were .doc instead of .docx, because .docx uses non-standard formatting that breaks non-Microsoft word processors).

[kato13]

Originally Posted by The Dark

That looks to be a conversion of the MGT Wet Navy rules from Challenge to FF&S. And yes, it is well-done (although I wish it were .doc instead of .docx, because .docx uses non-standard formatting that breaks non-Microsoft word processors).

Converted to Word 97/2003 doc

[Tnchi2a]

so either I'm doing something wrong or these formulas don't work.
according to the flow the arleigh burke destroyer can't float
is to short and to deep

I'm willing to do the work but I have to be reading this wrong or some thing because the numbers don't add up.
would love it if someone else could run the numbers and see if they can make it work.

Name: Arleigh Burke Class 1A
Displacement: 8,315 Tons (fully loaded)
Length: 504.5 ft/153.8 m
Beam: 66.9 ft/20.4 m
Drought: 20.7 ft/ 6.3 m
Hull Type All-Steel
Hull shape per USN website: Planning

with these numbers and the worksheet it keeps telling me the ship weight more then it can displace ?

[Tnchi2a]

Ignore the last post miss read the formulas due to a office screw-up it keep adding thing like 3D to some of the formulas when a square root sign was needed.

[unkated]

I do have to ask....

What are you trying to accomplish?

Ship to ship combat seems a little out of scale for T2K's individual fighter level (IMHO).

If you are trying to get individual PC's skills in the game, it would be easier to graft mods into Harpoon or Shipwreck than to reinvent the wheel to add large vessel combat into T2K - though almost any attack is due to a sum of crew actions rather than a particular individual's skill.

The weapon effects are generally beyond the top end of the scale (T2K also does not include rules for determining damage to vehicles, equipment, or people from aerial bombardment by 250-2000 kg bombs).

If you are trying to get land (vehicular) weapons to damage ships, you can find similar weapons in Harpoon (75mm = 3", 120mm = 4.7", 127mm = 5"; 155mm = 6").

If you want to go through the exercise, by all means. I do that sometimes just to see how a design sequence works compared to actual designs.

But I am curious as to what you want to get out of it.

Uncle ted

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by unkated

The weapon effects are generally beyond the top end of the scale (T2K also does not include rules for determining damage to vehicles, equipment, or people from aerial bombardment by 250-2000 kg bombs).

Directly, no, but indirectly it does through FF&S. A 250kg bomb is equivalent to a 22cm warhead, which is a C:85 B:92 Pen:26C HE blast at TL8 (1990s equivalent). A 2000kg bomb would be around 38cm, which is C:253 B:159 Pen:50C as an HE warhead.

[unkated]

Originally Posted by The Dark

Directly, no, but indirectly it does through FF&S. A 250kg bomb is equivalent to a 22cm warhead, which is a C:85 B:92 Pen:26C HE blast at TL8 (1990s equivalent). A 2000kg bomb would be around 38cm, which is C:253 B:159 Pen:50C as an HE warhead.

I would suggest that there are far better and more accurate modeling systems for naval warfare and the effects of weapons on warships, as well as the interaction of guidance and countermeasures than in FF&S.

Uncle Ted

[Silent Hunter UK]

I wouldn't say that using warships in a direct battle sense is overall a wise idea as they can generally create too much overkill.

However, you can use them in an indirect way as a GM. For example, a squad has to retrieve someone from a compound which is about come under naval gunfire; you could start having shells land and blowing up random buildings.

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by unkated

I would suggest that there are far better and more accurate modeling systems for naval warfare and the effects of weapons on warships, as well as the interaction of guidance and countermeasures than in FF&S.

Uncle Ted

This is undoubtedly true. How many of those systems are written for GDW's House Rules and are compatible with the game system this forum is dedicated to?

[Tnchi2a]

Sorry was getting ready for my game on Sat so haven't had time to work on ships or check post.
to the question of what I want to accomplish.

First, I have a game that's coming-up that well be a crew on one of the last Arleigh Burke destroyers "USS Farragut" as it tries to Sails home after the recall order. since it will have no support it must make brave hostile waters find fuel along the way as the crew struggles to survive. This will be while dodging subs and other surviving enemy surface-ships. Also the same challenge that had the wet navy rule had twilight 2000 2.2 rules for navy careers.

Second, I also intent to run a game at a later date where the world is locked in the 3rd World War and nukes have not been used. So having these ship stats will work for that.

Third, FF&S is the same engine that was used in 2.2 so the system are compatible. FF&S also can handle navy weapons with ease with the proper information. And some modified rules from Brilliant Lances this should be possible to accomplish.