Homegrown rules for Combat

[Heffe3737]

Hey all,

First, I've always felt the existing combat rules for T2k to be a little clunky. V1 is great and I like the percentage die rolls and character creation, but v 2.2 has the cooler weapon stats, larger weapon rules and weapon variability. So with that said, anyone have any homebrewed combat rules they've been using, or alternate rulesets that they prefer over vanilla?

Second, I tried taking a stab at making a frankensteined version of the rules in order to use portions of combat systems from both 1.0 and 2.2. Would love to hear thoughts on the following:

From 1.0
Character creation including skills
Small weapon handling (to hit/dmg/locations)
Die rolling
Difficulty levels

From 2.2
Large weapon handling including range
Small weapon ranges

Combat guide uses v1 rules for small arms, so .6 for short, .3 for medium, .1 for long, and .1 for extreme (only usable in specific circumstances). Aiming takes one combat round and doubles your chance to hit.

Small arms –
Base damage times 4 + 4d6 for short range
Base damage times 3 + 3d6 for medium range
Base damage times 2 + 2d6 for long range
Base damage times 1 +1d6 for extreme range

Example:
· Rifle has base dmg of 4. At short range, 4x4 +4d6 dmg. At medium, 4 x 3 +3d6. At long 4 x 2 + 2d6. At extreme, 4 +1d6.

Automatic fire to hit:

First shot from a burst is calculated at base range. All subsequent shots from a burst are calculated at one range difficulty further. Bursts at long range and beyond – First shot is calculated normally. Subsequent shots from the burst are calculated at your skill x .05.

Penetration for small arms –

As long as base damage is equal to or greater than armor rating and weapon has penetration values, shot can penetrate.

Examples:
· Penetration value of a given weapon is 1-1-2 and base damage of 4, then shot at short range does (base of 4 x 3) + 3d6, 4 x 2 +2d6 at medium range, base dmg (4) at long range. Weapon base damage of 2 with 2-Nil would do base dmg at short range, and wouldn’t penetrate beyond short range.

· .50 cal does 8 base dmg and 2-2-3 penetration. This equates to 8 x 4 +4d6 dmg against infantry with no armor at short range, or 8 damage at long range against armor value 2. 8 +1d6 at long range against infantry with armor level 1. Or 8 x 2 +2d6 at long range against infantry with no armor.

Penetration for heavier weapons –

Follow 2.2 rules for heavier weapons, minus concussion dmg. Concussion becomes knockdown radius.

Large caliber rounds don’t take normal penetration value penalties or range penalties against infantry. Thus, if a tank shell hits armor value 2 infantry at extreme range, the shell is still going to do 28x4 + 4d6 dmg (basically gibbed). All penetrators in the heavy weapon categories still do dmg +2d6 penetration against vehicles.

Examples:
· Explosive - SMAW – Base dmg of 55C with concussion of 4 and Burst of 5. Penetration is 55 +2d6 regardless of range. If target is infantry, upon direct hit the target takes 55d6 +2d6 dmg spread between all hit locations. 53d6 +2d6 if shot hits against armor value 2.

· Penetrator - 120mm APFSDU – Base dmg of 28, penetration of 150 +2d6 at short range, with no concussion or burst (penetrator round). Against infantry, dmg of 28x4 + 4d6 to hit location.

Explosives:

If within burst range, but not hit directly, roll percentage dice. If 30% or lower, target hit by 1d6 fragments. Between 30% and 60%, hit by 1 fragments. At 2X burst range, roll percentage dice. If roll is lower than 10%, hit by 1d6 fragments. Between 10% an 20%, target is hit by 1 fragment. Each fragment does 4d6 dmg.

Anti-tank missiles

To hit is equal to twice the firer’s HW skill. Firer must aim before and during the shot (for guided missiles). Firer must aim before the shot for unguided missiles/rockets. All anti-tank missiles travel at 1000m per 6 seconds.

[.45cultist]

Conspiracy Lives! aka Dark Conspiracy 3 had some refinements, but one can't get it anymore since DC4 is being made.

[swaghauler]

I always recommend using whatever rules you are comfortable with and trying or "experimenting" with new rules only with the player's full knowledge that these rules are new and experimental. If a rule doesn't work or complicates play, DUMP IT. Get the players' input here, they can be a valuable aid to the process. I have "evolved" several new rules with the help of my players. My own games is a fusion of V1, V2, V2.2, TW2K13, Fantasy Hero, and Traveller. It works but it is still evolving. Here are some examples of the changes I have made.

Character Creation:

Stature [STA]: I added STA back in as I use it for the Bulk of items in Encumbrance and how small an opening through which you can fit.

Willpower [WILL]: I added this Characteristic as a measure of a Character's mental strength, focus, and commitment to their ideals.

Knockdown [KDN]: I added this Stat as a measure of the number of Damage DICE it takes to knock the character down. If the weapon's/attack's DAMAGE DICE exceeds Knockdown, the target is knocked down. This stat is determined by AVERAGING STR, AGL, and STA.

Coolness Under Fire [CUF]: I use TW2K13's CUF rules with almost NO modification in my game. It is the BEST CUF rules I have ever used. They are not optional in my game either. More than once, a Character has found himself doing something he didn't want to do because he was compelled to do so by his CUF score.

Melee Combat & HTH Combat Damage I divide the Skill X STR score total by 20 NOT 10. This gives me a number between 1 and 5 (not 1 and 10). I do this because that number is now the number of Damage DICE, not Damage Points that the character does. I use a STUN system similar to Fantasy Hero's system (I have posted it in threads in this forum) for HTH damage which also meshes with my Fatigue system.
The Melee Damage DICE are only the number of dice the player rolls for Damage. Each Melee weapon uses a different die based on its own effectiveness. So a player using a Kabar (D6) with a Melee Damage of 3 will do 3D6 damage with that knife. If he used a Katana (D8), he would be doing 3D8 damage. A Battle Axe (D10) would give him 3D10 damage. This puts Melee Weapons on an equal footing with guns (provided the target is in range).

Initiative: I have posted my Initiative rules in Admiral Lee's "Thoughts on Initiative" Thread. You can find them there.

Skills: I buy my skills differently and have actually posted them in this Forum. In a nutshell, I have my players add up their INT, WILL, EDU, & CHA scores and this is the number of EXPERIENCE POINTS that they get EACH term. Each Skill must start at Level 0 (familiarization) which you must buy for 1 point. Each additional Skill Levels costs Experience Points to buy. It costs 1 exp to buy Skill Level ONE, 2 exp to buy Skill Level TWO, 3 exp to buy Skill Level THREE and so on. The "initial skills" you get in basic training are also simply Experience Points and NOT Skill Levels. My system produces Characters with more Skills but at LOWER LEVELS than the RAW system does. IF you're interested in my Skill System, look up my Thread on my Skill system.

I will post my other changes later. I have to sign off now


Swag.

[Targan]

Nice. Looks like you moved several steps in the direction of Harnmaster.

[Heffe3737]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

I always recommend using whatever rules you are comfortable with and trying or "experimenting" with new rules only with the player's full knowledge that these rules are new and experimental. If a rule doesn't work or complicates play, DUMP IT. Get the players' input here, they can be a valuable aid to the process. I have "evolved" several new rules with the help of my players. My own games is a fusion of V1, V2, V2.2, TW2K13, Fantasy Hero, and Traveller. It works but it is still evolving. Here are some examples of the changes I have made.

Character Creation:

Stature [STA]: I added STA back in as I use it for the Bulk of items in Encumbrance and how small an opening through which you can fit.

Willpower [WILL]: I added this Characteristic as a measure of a Character's mental strength, focus, and commitment to their ideals.

Knockdown [KDN]: I added this Stat as a measure of the number of Damage DICE it takes to knock the character down. If the weapon's/attack's DAMAGE DICE exceeds Knockdown, the target is knocked down. This stat is determined by AVERAGING STR, AGL, and STA.

Coolness Under Fire [CUF]: I use TW2K13's CUF rules with almost NO modification in my game. It is the BEST CUF rules I have ever used. They are not optional in my game either. More than once, a Character has found himself doing something he didn't want to do because he was compelled to do so by his CUF score.

Melee Combat & HTH Combat Damage I divide the Skill X STR score total by 20 NOT 10. This gives me a number between 1 and 5 (not 1 and 10). I do this because that number is now the number of Damage DICE, not Damage Points that the character does. I use a STUN system similar to Fantasy Hero's system (I have posted it in threads in this forum) for HTH damage which also meshes with my Fatigue system.
The Melee Damage DICE are only the number of dice the player rolls for Damage. Each Melee weapon uses a different die based on its own effectiveness. So a player using a Kabar (D6) with a Melee Damage of 3 will do 3D6 damage with that knife. If he used a Katana (D8), he would be doing 3D8 damage. A Battle Axe (D10) would give him 3D10 damage. This puts Melee Weapons on an equal footing with guns (provided the target is in range).

Initiative: I have posted my Initiative rules in Admiral Lee's "Thoughts on Initiative" Thread. You can find them there.

Skills: I buy my skills differently and have actually posted them in this Forum. In a nutshell, I have my players add up their INT, WILL, EDU, & CHA scores and this is the number of EXPERIENCE POINTS that they get EACH term. Each Skill must start at Level 0 (familiarization) which you must buy for 1 point. Each additional Skill Levels costs Experience Points to buy. It costs 1 exp to buy Skill Level ONE, 2 exp to buy Skill Level TWO, 3 exp to buy Skill Level THREE and so on. The "initial skills" you get in basic training are also simply Experience Points and NOT Skill Levels. My system produces Characters with more Skills but at LOWER LEVELS than the RAW system does. IF you're interested in my Skill System, look up my Thread on my Skill system.

I will post my other changes later. I have to sign off now


Swag.

Very interesting, and thanks for the response. I really like the modification of HTH/Melee, and will strongly consider using that one. As for the others, I think i need more experience as a GM before really diving into them, though the skill system seems really promising.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Heffe3737

Very interesting, and thanks for the response. I really like the modification of HTH/Melee, and will strongly consider using that one. As for the others, I think i need more experience as a GM before really diving into them, though the skill system seems really promising.

You should always have the last say in what rules you use and what rules you don't. For example... I added the Will trait SPECIFICALLY for my Dark Conspiracy games in lieu of the Willpower Skill. I had developed a different Magic system and needed that stat to be universal, so it became a Characteristic.

[swaghauler]

You can research my rules on Optics, Initiative, Skills, Water Purification, Food Storage in the Forum Search Engine.

Damage in Game:

Also, note that the reason I use the multi-dice melee system is to have compatibility with the small arms' damage. I also increased the lethality in my game by using #D10 for rifle rounds' damage. I split pistol rounds' required Energy (the system to determine damage laid out in the V2 Small Arms Handbook as well as Fire, Fusion, & Steel) IN HALF and use #D6 for them (and projectile weapons like bows). I also determine small arms' damage by RANGE BAND. I just use the Energy at the middle of each Range Band to determine this. So an M16A2 does 3D10 (short), 2D10 (medium), 2D10 (long), 1D10 (extreme). Using the alternate method for pistols, an M9 9mm does 2D6 (short), 2D6 (medium), 1D6 (long), and 1D6 (extreme); while a 1911 .45 ACP does 3D6 (short), 2D6 (medium), 2D6 (long) and 1D6 (extreme).

Skill Difficulty Levels:

I adjusted the difficulty levels to be more like TRAVELLER and MEGATRAVELLER because the skill jumps in the RAW rules were simply TOO BIG. I have posted my new Difficulty Levels in the Playing the Game thread but will repost them now. I will also list the success chances for a perfectly AVERAGE Character with a Skill of 5 and a Characteristic of 5.

VERY EASY TASK (3 X Skill Asset): 30 or less on 1D20.
EASY TASK (2 X Skill Asset): 20 or less on 1D20.
ROUTINE TASK (1.5 X Skill Asset): 15 or less on 1D20.
AVERAGE TASK (1 X Skill Asset): 10 or less on 1D20.
DIFFICULT TASK (0.5 X Skill Asset): 5 or less on 1D20.
FORMIDABLE TASK (0.25 X Skill Asset): 2 or less on 1D20.
IMPOSSIBLE TASK (0.1 X Skill Asset): 1 or less on 1D20.

You must decide whether to round up or down (I round down). I like the smaller but more numerous Difficulty Steps because I do Difficulty SHIFTS during play. Is the target moving? Shift the Difficulty to one level more difficult. Is that target moving faster than 30m per round? Shift Difficulty TWO Levels more Difficult. This is how we use the ratings during the game.

I will also give a BONUS to a 1D20 roll (which ACTUALLY SUBTRACTS FROM the result rolled) or a PENALTY to a 1D20 roll (which ACTUALLY ADDS TO the result rolled). If the bonus/penalty is greater than TWO, you should probably do a Difficulty SHIFT instead.

MY AUTOFIRE HOUSE RULES:

Rate of Fire: Despite what GDW would have you believe, not all automatic weapons are similar in their shooting characteristics. The first change I made was to how Rate of Fire (ROF) was determined. I divide the weapon's listed cyclic rate by 100 to determine it's ROF. An AK shooting 600 rounds per minute would have a ROF of 6. An M3 Grease Gun would have a ROF of 4 thanks to its 400 rpm cyclic rate. This burst length is approximately 6/10ths of a second in length and represents a fairly controlled 1-second burst. Since I treat each Initiative Step as a 1-second unit of time, you can fire ONE BURST per Initiative Step. This modification also requires the recalculation of RECOIL using the formula in the V2 Small Arms Guide.

I also use a system where Autofire is a product of Skill NOT just chance. You INCREASE your Difficulty Level BY ONE for basic autofire (ie AVE becomes DIF). This is NOT done in isolation from any other Difficulty Shifts for movement, cover, target size, etc.... They ALL apply. Because of this, it is still VERY easy to get to an IMPOSSIBLE task roll. There are TWO special types of autofire in addition to basic autofire. These are:

Saturation Fire: You are trading bullet spread for improved accuracy here. This autofire technique involves "stitching the target" vertically by firing at the target's feet and allowing the weapon to climb to the target's head. You lose HALF (rounding up) the weapon's ROF in dice rolled. You gain [1/2ROF]/2 (rounding up) as a BONUS to the To Hit roll. The AK above would roll THREE DICE (ROF of 6/2=3) and have a bonus of +2 (HALF of ROF 6 =3. 3/2=1.5 rounding up) to hit. Saturation Fire may be combined with Grazing Fire IF there is more than one bullet left after the Grazing Fire calculation.

Grazing Fire: You are trading ROF for the ability to hit multiple targets with a single burst. The autofire technique is TWO DIFFICULTY LEVELS HARDER THAN A NORMAL SHOT (ie AVE becomes FRM). You divide the ROF in half (Rounding down) to determine the number of targets (or meters) you can hit with the burst. The AK above can hit 3 targets or traverse 3m for distance while conducting the burst (ROF of 6/2=3). Grazing fire can be a game changer AT CLOSE RANGE. Beyond Short Range, you are lucky to even hit the target.

Dispersion: The average human is just about 20" wide from shoulder to shoulder. This means that the typical man can COMFORTABLY operate inside a ONE METER block of space. The 2m default of the game is too big. I, therefore, change Dispersion to targets occupying the SAME 1-meter square behind the target at SHORT and MEDIUM Range. There won't be much horizontal Dispersion at these ranges. At LONG RANGE, the Dispersion expands to the target's 1-meter area PLUS ONE MORE METER for a total of 2 meters or 78" (or 6 and 1/2 FEET). The GM decides if this is in front or back of the target (or alternately to the left or right). At EXTREME RANGE, the Dispersion increases to THREE METERS. The Target's meter and the meter on EITHER SIDE. Please understand this is a Dispersion of NEARLY TEN FEET (117" in total) which is pretty wide.
The number of rounds you lose is based on the SIZE OF THE BURST versus the RANGE BAND you are shooting to. The following Burst sizes lose the indicated number of rounds per Range Band.

Burst Size of 2 to 3 Rounds: 1 at Extreme Range.

Burst Size of 4 to 7 Rounds: 2 at Extreme Range, 1 at Long Range.

Burst Size of 8 to 15 Rounds: 4 at Extreme Range, 2 at Long Range, 1 at Medium Range.

Burst Size of 16 to 24 Rounds: 8 at Extreme Range, 4 at Long Range, 2 at Medium Range, 1 at Short Range.

Burst Size of 25+ Rounds: 16 at Extreme Range, 8 at Long Range, 4 at Medium Range, and 2 at Short Range.

Rounds lost to Dispersion can be counted for GRAZING FIRE but not for SATURATION FIRE (they are uncontrolled). If used for a Grazing Fire calculation, all of the Dispersed Rounds MUST BE COUNTED IN THE "LOST ROUNDS" for the calculation. For Example, an M134 (ROF 30) firing at targets in the Extreme Range Band will lose 16 rounds NOT 15 when conducting Grazing Fire (giving 14 meters or targets to hit).

Short Bursts: A shooter can fire a shorter burst of 1/2 ROF (rd) with the appropriate reduction in Dispersion and Recoil.

These are just some more of my house rules. I will post again later.

[swaghauler]

Some weapons just have too short of a range for the "doubling" system V2.2 uses to work. Some examples of these weapons include;

- Thrown Weapons like knives or javelins.
- Flamethrowers or Water Cannon
- Projected Rifle Grenades with a velocity of less than 100m per second.
- Tasers and Projected Less-Than-Lethal Weapons like bean bag rounds.
- Lobbed Weapons like grenades or stones.

For these weapon systems, I divide the range by 4 and ADD the Range Bands together. So a Taser with a maximum range of 8m would have a 2m Short Range, 4m Medium Range, 6m Long Range, and 8m Extreme Range.

Direct Throwing Range: This is an attempt to hit a small target like an 8" circle directly. It would be akin to a baseball Pitcher's throw. The BASE RANGE is [STR+AGL/2 ru].

Lob Throwing Range: I use the RAW throwing range as a "lob" where it is like indirect fire and falls with a deviation of 1D3m away from the target (figured just like indirect fire). Each point under the Target Number reduces this deviation by 1 meter. a -1m or lower is a direct hit on the target. I determine the Lob Range by adding AGL & STR for Base Lob Range and adding it for each range band. A person with a 5 STR and 5 AGL would have the following Throwing Ranges;

Throw Range: 5m Short, 10m Medium, 15m Long, and 20m Extreme.
Lob Range: 10m Short, 20m Medium, 30m Long, and 40m Extreme.

Those are my rules for non-standard weapon's ranges.