US 8th Infantry Division

[therantingsavant]

Which supplement has details of this unit - I recall seeing a short adventure involving this unit somewhere in the Baltic?

[Legbreaker]

East Europe Sourcebook.
There's a few small issues with the unit's OOB - namely the number of M2 Bradley's. Not an unexplainable problem if you accept they were always intended to travel further than any other sub-unit of XI Corps though and capture (and hold) the oil shale production of the area.
Personally I think that objective is a plausible one, if somewhat a bit of a reach. If true, it means the 8th ID were probably the only unit out of the entire German III Army offensive (which XI Corps was only one small part) to have come close to achieving their objective.
https://forum.juhlin.com/showpost.ph...5&postcount=14

[therantingsavant]

Thanks that's the one

[Olefin]

the 8th was written up in the East European Sourcebook - but that book has all kinds of issues that people have debated before as to the composition of the units and what kinds of vehicles and how many they had

[Legbreaker]

In the authors defence, the book does detail the situation very late in the war when units have been shuffled, and reshuffled many times with equipment moved around, reassigned, destroyed and "creatively acquired".
The 8th's vehicle list however does look a little like just plain sloppy work, but their relatively high vehicle strength is plausible given they were effectively the spearhead and needed the armoured firepower and mobility.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

In the authors defence, the book does detail the situation very late in the war when units have been shuffled, and reshuffled many times with equipment moved around, reassigned, destroyed and "creatively acquired".
The 8th's vehicle list however does look a little like just plain sloppy work, but their relatively high vehicle strength is plausible given they were effectively the spearhead and needed the armoured firepower and mobility.

Oh heck yes I agree with you as to units "creatively acquiring" vehicles - look at the Marines for instance in Poland - nice little mix of vehicles there - course that is standard Marine practice to five finger discount anything they can get their hands on even today let along during the apocalypse

[therantingsavant]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

In the authors defence, the book does detail the situation very late in the war when units have been shuffled, and reshuffled many times with equipment moved around, reassigned, destroyed and "creatively acquired".

So I'm thinking this would be common enough - what would be surprising in some ways is units late in the war that aren't using captured/repaired vehicles (esp support vehicles like trucks I'm thinking) and maintain either all US/German/NATO or all Soviet/Pact vehicles. Sure mechanics may be more familiar with their own side's technology etc, but the rules really don't make a distinction and the "ptachwork" nature of vehicles and groups is something that the "broke back" nature of central Poland would tend to encourage IMO.

I know they're arguably a later development, but I'd consider that "technicals" with light autocannon turrets etc would be more common than in the canon written a few decades ago as all the "soft-skinned" vehicles have much better Fuel Con values and actual tanks would be a relative rarity even after all the RPGs have been used up...

Just some idle thoughts while delirious at home with some virus LOL

[Legbreaker]

The issue of using enemy, even allied equipment has been discussed in quite some detail in the past. The short story is it's a recipe for friendly fire incidents.
It seems the consensus is enemy vehicles would not do well mixed in with "standard" issued vehicles, especially without some VERY good identifying marks painted all over them. Although still quite valuable, they're probably best used in clearly defined areas, perhaps in rear security roles (although then you're giving the enemy a great opportunity for infiltration with their own vehicles).
There's really no easy answer to how they could, or should be employed, but they're certainly not going to be left to rust late in the war.

[therantingsavant]

I'd be interested in previous discussions if you can point them out sure.

I was talking mainly about the utility vehicles but sure I get the "friendly fire" aspects would be more of an issue in more contested areas. For fairly static cantonments, free cities and marauders, however, I'd suspect a mix of vehicles modified with makeshift armor and added heavy weapons would be in order?

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by therantingsavant

I'd be interested in previous discussions if you can point them out sure.

Scattered through a number of threads I believe. The forums search feature should be able to help (I hope)...

[Legbreaker]

This should be a good start. https://forum.juhlin.com/search.php?searchid=120603

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by therantingsavant

So I'm thinking this would be common enough - what would be surprising in some ways is units late in the war that aren't using captured/repaired vehicles (esp support vehicles like trucks I'm thinking) and maintain either all US/German/NATO or all Soviet/Pact vehicles. Sure mechanics may be more familiar with their own side's technology etc, but the rules really don't make a distinction and the "ptachwork" nature of vehicles and groups is something that the "broke back" nature of central Poland would tend to encourage IMO.

I know they're arguably a later development, but I'd consider that "technicals" with light autocannon turrets etc would be more common than in the canon written a few decades ago as all the "soft-skinned" vehicles have much better Fuel Con values and actual tanks would be a relative rarity even after all the RPGs have been used up...

Just some idle thoughts while delirious at home with some virus LOL

You are seeing a lot of technicals used in Africa both among US and Kenyan forces and their allies and also among their foes. Especially as other equipment breaks down and they salvage its armament.

[therantingsavant]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

This should be a good start. https://forum.juhlin.com/search.php?searchid=120603

Thanks yes that was a helpful thread - makes me more convinced that particularly light vehicles would be used and repurposed actually.

[Legbreaker]

Light vehicles, no matter how heavily armed they are, are still extremely vulnerable. Wheeled vehicles also give up a lot of the mobility of tracks.
The proper AFVs are sure to be maintained and used as well as resources allow, and in an emergency, they're likely to have priority for fuel (especially in a withdrawal) as they're such hugely valuable force multipliers.
Should the vehicles themselves be damaged or worn beyond repair, then, and only then can I see their weapons and other systems being removed and added to lighter vehicles (provided those parts aren't needed in other AFVs).

[cawest]

does anyone know if East Europe Sourcebook will be reprinted?

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by cawest

does anyone know if East Europe Sourcebook will be reprinted?

By who?
Should be available on DriveThruRPG.com

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Yes indeed, available here https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ope-Sourcebook

It's priced close to $15 Australian so should be about 10 or 11 dollars US I think.

[cawest]

I am not a big fan of PDF.. I like having a book in my hands.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by cawest

I am not a big fan of PDF.. I like having a book in my hands.

I understand that, I also like to have a proper book especially when I'm at the game table because I find everything is too damned small on a PDF while displayed on the tablet or even laptop. I like to see the entire page at a size I can read, not just one section of it.

However, unless you can find a second-hand copy of the East Europe sourcebook your only option is going to be a digital copy because as far as I can find out, there are no plans to reprint any of the T2k books.
Or, you could get the PDF printed and bound. That has become a much more viable option these days (and a lot cheaper) compared to how it use to be.

[cawest]

I broke down and got the PDF.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by cawest

I broke down and got the PDF.

Considering the price I've seen over the years for physical copies on eBay or even some of the specialty game shops, the PDF is certainly a more reasonable and realistic price.
For example, at the moment, Noble Knight Games has a copy of the East Europe sourcebook and they're asking US$85 for it - which is just price gouging in my opinion.