Combat (over)load

[copeab]

Found this over the weekend, my apologies if someone already posted it:

https://taskandpurpose.com/combat-load-weight-research

While the point of the article has been well known for over a century, maybe the detailed research can result in some change.

[rcaf_777]

Portrait of US Army Sergeant Duane Clemons surrounded by all of his battle gear during photo shoot. Dhahran, Saudi Arabia 2/24/1991 CREDIT: Neil Leifer (Photo by Neil Leifer Sports Illustrated) (Set Number: LW290)

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Portrait of US Army Sergeant Duane Clemons surrounded by all of his battle gear during photo shoot. Dhahran, Saudi Arabia 2/24/1991 CREDIT: Neil Leifer (Photo by Neil Leifer Sports Illustrated) (Set Number: LW290)

Only 200 rounds?
Amateur.

Also there's no way he'd be carrying the machinegun AND rifle.

[Ramjam]

I've just read the good Captain's paper.

Very interesting.

The problem is unless you are vehicle-borne infantry you have to carry your own gear
Ask any para or marine
Or any front line soldier for that matter
Even if you strip out everything form your gear apart from ammo, armour, and medic gear, you will still be over the 15 lb limit

As I said very interesting theory
But at this moment in time very unrealistic

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Regarding carrying a rifle and machine gun, yeah I agree that it's unlikely but it is not unheard of in some countries for someone to carry two weapons (and I'm not talking about pistols). For example, the French Army in the 1980-90s regularly had marksman (armed with the FR-F1) also carry their issued FAMAS.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Regarding carrying a rifle and machine gun, yeah I agree that it's unlikely but it is not unheard of in some countries for someone to carry two weapons (and I'm not talking about pistols). For example, the French Army in the 1980-90s regularly had marksman (armed with the FR-F1) also carry their issued FAMAS.

Snipers seem to be the most likely to do this.

For a more specific example, Simo Häyhä also carried a Suomi KP/-31 in addition to his bolt-action fifle, and may have killed more Russians with the SMG than rifle.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Only 200 rounds?

Funny enough, that's about double the ammo load of an average WWII rifleman, and close to what a BAR gunner carried.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Only 200 rounds?
Amateur.

Also there's no way he'd be carrying the machinegun AND rifle.

yet here he is carrying them?...... and re-read the description

[Legbreaker]

Sure, he's carrying them. Looks like it's not a combat situation though, or even in an area with a significant threat of combat.
Absolutely a staged photo shoot as mentioned.

Carrying multiple main weapon systems is indeed done in an administrative setting, not so much in combat as it's a waste of time, energy and carrying capacity of things you might actually use. Carrying somebody else's weapon when they're injured or killed is another matter entirely of course.

Note I'm speaking from the viewpoint of an M60 machinegunner - we already had enough to carry without adding on another 5-7kgs of useless rifle and ammo. Absolutely everything else on me served a vital purpose. Wherever I could ditch weight, I would - for example would only carry a sleeping bag if the weather was expected to be cold, and never a mat.

[pmulcahy11b]

As a former 11B paratrooper, I routinely on training road marches carried as much as my weight in gear. They didn't make us hump so much during Desert Storm (providing our platoon with a couple of HMMWVs for the purpose), but I still had my M16A2, 380 rounds of ammo, a Dragon Missile and CLU, and my normal tactical gear or things like an MRE in my leg pocket. Since I was a squad leader, I also had NODs in my butt pack. Everything probably added up to near 80 pounds, maybe more (and remember, I only weighed about 145 pounds at the time, though I was solid and wiry.)

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Wherever I could ditch weight, I would - for example would only carry a sleeping bag if the weather was expected to be cold, and never a mat.

Poncho and poncho liner -- better choice for the field or Desert Storm under most circumstances. (I still sleep in a poncho liner, and just throw a bedspread over my bed.)

[kcdusk]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I still sleep in a poncho liner, and just throw a bedspread over my bed.

To borrow a quote from above, "Amateur"!

:-)

[Adm.Lee]

Just to be clear, "assault load" or "assault pack" is what in game terms would be the "backpack that PCs say they'll drop when the shooting starts"?

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

Just to be clear, "assault load" or "assault pack" is what in game terms would be the "backpack that PCs say they'll drop when the shooting starts"?

Yes.

Most LBE (now called a Chest Rig or Chest Carrier) loads will be around 50lbs. HOWEVER... Body Armor can significantly raise "fighting load" (that 50lb LBE load).

20lbs is a typical loadout for a police duty belt these days. The SF guys have a similar loadout called a "Battle belt" or "War Belt."

[rcaf_777]

Updated battle load

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Interestingly enough, I read something recently (to be honest I was in a rush and skimmed it so I don't recall details) about US operations in the late 2000s - early 2010s and one of the US soldiers was lugging both a GPMG (M240) and his M4 carbine.

EDIT: Anecdotal, so take that for what it's worth

[Legbreaker]

I'm sure there's times when this happens - I carried the M60 and 77 set (radio) at one point - but it's far from the norm.