Alternative Crew Vehicles?

[nduffy]

Has anyone ever used alternative vehicles to the 150? I have tried a few different vehicles in the past such as the Fuchs 8x8 and also the LAV and its variants. I had also considered the Boxer for an updated time line especially for a British scenario. There are some pretty good vehicle alternatives out there as well as upgrades for the venerable old 150such as the HMV-150. Just curious.
The GM giveth and the GM taketh away..

[dragoon500ly]

It is hinted at in the free state modules, that the V-300s come from captured Project stocks.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I never got to run the game but one vehicle I was definitely going to include was the Tangram TILOS. A vehicle designed around a Unimog 1700 truck with a large 3-axle trailer. Both the main vehicle and the trailer could be tailored to the user's needs. Examples of potential use included civil protection unit, mobile police station, rescue unit vehicle, mobile doctors surgery and mobile health unit.

Sadly, the company doesn't seem to have survived into the 2010s and the website is now only found on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine (and you'll need Flash to view the pages - but the image gallery still works!)
https://web.archive.org/web/20011225...tilosmenu.html

Ambulance vehicle and trailer mounted medical unit


While the specifications listed on that page are for the civilian ambulance version, there was also an armoured variant offered for military use although I don't know of any nations that bought it. It's listed in one of the Janes armoured vehicles yearbooks but I'd have to search them to find which one. However I vaguely recall that it was meant to offer protection from artillery fragments and .50cal projectiles.

EDIT: Some clarification on the subject - the company Maritime Access Corp. does still exist, it seems they dropped TILOS from their offerings sometime in the early 2000s but I seem to recall that Tangram was the original company and Maritime Access bought up their IP when they closed up shop (or something like that) because I think the TILOS project was began in the 1980s and didn't get enough orders for the company to survive

Also, I did intend to use this as a team vehicle, but I was intending it for science, medical and support teams

[nduffy]

https://www.offgridweb.com/transport...vival-vehicle/

I was and still am really fascinated with the Kiravan Unimog. On my advanced time line it could be set up as a science lab, a mobile clinic, a mobile communications station or even a crew expedition vehicle. The Unimog is such a tough, highly versatile vehicle, that I have frequently used them in my games. A go any where do anything vehicle. I don't know why you don't see them more in the MP..

I also once gave the team a Tpz Fuchs 8x8. , They (the team) loved it, mainly because they could carry a whole lot of crap and they horded a lot of stuff...Damned Vehicle was a rolling barter station.

https://external-content.duckduckgo....jpg&f=1&nofb=1
I have really considered making it my go to vehicle...

[dragoon500ly]

My only point(s) in this discussion is that the vehicles, from a logistical standpoint, have to share common items such as tires, axles, engines, radio, fittings, etc. Ideally, a common military vehicle (such as the 5-ton truck) would be used. Details on modified V-150s/V-300s can be found on thesupplybunker website.

Choosing to go with separate vehicle types such as V-150s, Saladins, Unimogs, Prius, etc. Opens up major logistical concerns, spare parts are limited and cannot be easily scrounged, for example. PDs really need to review the vehicle issue from this viewpoint alone.

Flames and comments, as always, are cheerfully accepted!

[knightofrubus]

As an aside. How do people feel about the use of civilian vehicles either modified or stock as part of a Project Motor pool?

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by knightofrubus

As an aside. How do people feel about the use of civilian vehicles either modified or stock as part of a Project Motor pool?

I am a fan of this. It would seem that not all vehicles in the MP fleet would need to be armored, off-road capable military vehicles. Civilian vehicles are listed as being part of most, if not all, US domestic bases.

That being said, I don't think there will be a recon team whose vehicle is an F-150, Silverado, or RAM. Though a specialized contact team might. It warrants additional thought.

[nduffy]

I am good with it and it makes sense to a certain degree, you could get a lot more civilian vehicles and modify them without turning too many heads, and acquire more vehicles and parts more readily. That's why I do like the Unicat/ Unimog concept and expeditionary vehicle concept . Also the US military during the 80s and 90s were still using Chevy/GM off the shelf vehicles, The CUCV series. Drove one for many years. There are tons of those still floating around that have gone to the civilian side. I could easily see the MP buying and modifying civilian vehicles for certain uses and teams. Non combat teams could easily and readily be equipped with civilian trucks and SUVs as well as any other vehicle that could be modified for MP use. Under the guise of a company or corp. the project could buy off the shelf vehicles and modify them as they see fit Even building armored vehicles for the civilian/ commercial market and using the profits to buy and build MP vehicles.

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by nduffy

I could easily see the MP buying and modifying civilian vehicles for certain uses and teams. Non combat teams could easily and readily be equipped with civilian trucks and SUVs as well as any other vehicle that could be modified for MP use. Under the guise of a company or corp. the project could buy off the shelf vehicles and modify them as they see fit Even building armored vehicles for the civilian/ commercial market and using the profits to buy and build MP vehicles.

Real-world story here. A local company called Spartan Motors custom builds fire trucks. In 2008, they were also producing MRAPs as a subcontractor for BAE. Using civilian/commercial vehicle companies to make a more armored or specialized version is not unreasonable, especially if MP is making fire trucks and rescue vehicles for municipalities as a company cover.

[nduffy]

Also white fleet trucks can be modified to any mission requirement. For my job I have a 350 4x4 crew cab with a utility bed with a crane. We have a crew with a 550 version as well as a coupe of other versions in the 450 and 550 range. I do agree that Recon, Contact and MARS/ RATT teams need armored vehicles. I could also see medical teams with an armored ambulance or two. I think most people during this time would feel less threatened and more open to help if secondary teams weren't rolling into a town or village as heavily armed helpers. Although there might be a need for a security presence if needed a lightly armored vehicle could serve in that capacity.

[knightofrubus]

Lets not forget the project has advanced materials engineering if stuff like Resistweave coveralls are anything to go by. It could be while they are not a true armored vehicle. Project civvies might still sport at lesst Resistweave liners in key panels to help soak small arms fire.

[nduffy]

Originally Posted by knightofrubus

Lets not forget the project has advanced materials engineering if stuff like Resistweave coveralls are anything to go by. It could be while they are not a true armored vehicle. Project civvies might still sport at lesst Resistweave liners in key panels to help soak small arms fire.

I gave all my teams a resist weave based on spider silk and a spectra fiber combo. I really disliked the one piece coverall so I went with a two piece Vietnam style uniform that was color coordinated to the teams. The exception being Recon, and MARS/ RATT , they got a camo based heavier weave. This made it easy for MP personal to identify each other quickly. They also had berets that color coded and field caps ( WW II style German hats that had color flashes to indicate team affiliation when wearing the beret wouldn't be tactically smart). I also had civilian style cloths in resist weave for recon teams if needed. Just made sense for me...

[knightofrubus]

Originally Posted by nduffy

I gave all my teams a resist weave based on spider silk and a spectra fiber combo. I really disliked the one piece coverall so I went with a two piece Vietnam style uniform that was color coordinated to the teams. The exception being Recon, and MARS/ RATT , they got a camo based heavier weave. This made it easy for MP personal to identify each other quickly. They also had berets that color coded and field caps ( WW II style German hats that had color flashes to indicate team affiliation when wearing the beret wouldn't be tactically smart). I also had civilian style cloths in resist weave for recon teams if needed. Just made sense for me...

I really like that. I always figured the one piece was what a team woke up in. As a nod to a certain vault related game. That said I could see Resistweave clothes being a great trade good even if it's a non-military form that is just tougher than cotton and wool.

[nduffy]

If you think about it, a set of civilian cloths would be advantageous at times, rather than rolling up in an armored vehicle, you could do an aerial recon of an area with a drone then send in 2 people on foot dressed in civies, carrying hidden radios and weapons to feel the town/village out. Resistweave clothing would give them protection in case of hostilities. The rest of the team stays at a safe distance ready to move if needed and use their drone to keep an eye on things from the sky. It would have to be a quiet drone and equipped with a good enough camera to get details if needed and also work as a radio relay. I have had reaction rolls which when the team rolled up in their vehicle the town went into a really not so good mood and one even went hostile.. So soft contact is often a good idea in many cases..

[knightofrubus]

I mean a civilian drone is surprisingly quiet and quad drones are seeing the fits and starts of military use. It would not at all be outlandish to see basic drones in a modernish loadout.

To bring this back to topic. I could definitely see the project having a few EMS trucks of varying roles on stand by. Has anyone ever used alternate trailers and towed machinery?

[nduffy]

Originally Posted by knightofrubus

I mean a civilian drone is surprisingly quiet and quad drones are seeing the fits and starts of military use. It would not at all be outlandish to see basic drones in a modernish loadout.

To bring this back to topic. I could definitely see the project having a few EMS trucks of varying roles on stand by. Has anyone ever used alternate trailers and towed machinery?

I once designed a towed fusion forge that could be pulled behind 2 18 wheelers or heavy trucks and also a 3d printer that could be fed concrete and build homes and buildings (based on a design I saw on TV) I had attached them to a large engineering team. Never got to put them to use though. That scenario never played. I had also played with a series of trailers that when fed scrap metal could produce small sections of plates or I beams for construction. It would have been pulled by a land train and required several days to a week to set up. That got a bit complicated so I put that idea on hold.

[Zaskar24]

Hello everyone, been awhile since I have been on here. Years to be precise.

To the topic at hand. I think that MP would be well served by going the route of Plasan, https://www.plasan.com/sandcat/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasan_Sand_Cat, and have a vehicle built off of a commercially available chassis such as a Ford, Oshkosh, or International one. The Ford would be best since spare parts would be a matter of finding a Ford dealership or warehouse. After all, what we end up with in game and the original plan for reawakening are two different things.

The other thing that I have not seen mentioned is something just as important for what the project was initially going to be doing. Search and rescue in an unknown post event world under a decade after the event. So a strong possibility of having to deal with Nuclear hot zones or areas with potentially still active biological or chemical weapons. Could one of The Projects companies manufacture NBC sealed rescue vehicles that have the ability to be modified to light combat vehicles? The remote control mount for the fire house becomes a weapons mount with the attendant water tank becoming the fresh water supply for the team. This could make a good recon team vehicle as a properly painted vehicle would not stand out or raise much suspicion, when the teams were originally supposed to awaken that is.

Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts on this.

[knightofrubus]

Originally Posted by Zaskar24

Hello everyone, been awhile since I have been on here. Years to be precise.

To the topic at hand. I think that MP would be well served by going the route of Plasan, https://www.plasan.com/sandcat/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasan_Sand_Cat, and have a vehicle built off of a commercially available chassis such as a Ford, Oshkosh, or International one. The Ford would be best since spare parts would be a matter of finding a Ford dealership or warehouse. After all, what we end up with in game and the original plan for reawakening are two different things.

The other thing that I have not seen mentioned is something just as important for what the project was initially going to be doing. Search and rescue in an unknown post event world under a decade after the event. So a strong possibility of having to deal with Nuclear hot zones or areas with potentially still active biological or chemical weapons. Could one of The Projects companies manufacture NBC sealed rescue vehicles that have the ability to be modified to light combat vehicles?

Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts on this.

I could easily see this. Or even the Project going the tesla route

[nduffy]

Originally Posted by Zaskar24

Hello everyone, been awhile since I have been on here. Years to be precise.

To the topic at hand. I think that MP would be well served by going the route of Plasan, https://www.plasan.com/sandcat/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasan_Sand_Cat, and have a vehicle built off of a commercially available chassis such as a Ford, Oshkosh, or International one. The Ford would be best since spare parts would be a matter of finding a Ford dealership or warehouse. After all, what we end up with in game and the original plan for reawakening are two different things.

The other thing that I have not seen mentioned is something just as important for what the project was initially going to be doing. Search and rescue in an unknown post event world under a decade after the event. So a strong possibility of having to deal with Nuclear hot zones or areas with potentially still active biological or chemical weapons. Could one of The Projects companies manufacture NBC sealed rescue vehicles that have the ability to be modified to light combat vehicles? The remote control mount for the fire house becomes a weapons mount with the attendant water tank becoming the fresh water supply for the team. This could make a good recon team vehicle as a properly painted vehicle would not stand out or raise much suspicion, when the teams were originally supposed to awaken that is.

Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts on this.

Sorry for a late reply
I like the design and its versatility, I could see it on a ford or oshkosh chassis. I could see the MP building these under guise for sale in other countries. Mexico and Canada are on their list.. How convenient... Also building it off a standard chassis gives it a better parts availability.

[nduffy]

Still really like this vehicle as well as its 6x6 brother, which is in use in the US as an NBC vehicle

[nduffy]

Fuchs 8x8

[StainlessSteelCynic]

If you use that Fuchs 8x8, then you have the makings of a family of vehicles based on common components & construction.
Obviously the 8x8 as shown in the image above, the Fuchs 6x6 parent design and also the APE 4x4

http://www.military-today.com/apc/tr...nzer_fuchs.htm

http://www.military-today.com/apc/ape.htm

[nduffy]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

If you use that Fuchs 8x8, then you have the makings of a family of vehicles based on common components & construction.
Obviously the 8x8 as shown in the image above, the Fuchs 6x6 parent design and also the APE 4x4

http://www.military-today.com/apc/tr...nzer_fuchs.htm

http://www.military-today.com/apc/ape.htm

Thats kinda of what I was going for. I had also played with the idea of an MRAP style vehicle. Common off the shelf parts, easy to secure, armored, and something they could combine with a 6x6 or 8x8 ..
So a recon team of 6-9 folks would have both an MRAP and a Fuchs. The Fuchs could serve as their fire support vehicle and as a survey vehicle, testing radiation backgrounds and NBC concerns. The MRAP would do scouting and be a contact vehicle. Sometimes rolling up in a large tank like vehicle isnt always the best choice for initial contact..

[nduffy]

The 8x8 as an ambulance could potentially carry a large (compact version) medical station. big enough for a tube and an EMT and DR , you have a mobile lightly armored clinic.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

You could use the APE in the role of the MRAP. It was originally designed as a recce vehicle for engineers for such things as surveying riverbanks for fording points and so on.

[nduffy]

Never thought about that. The fact it can mount a 20mm gun is pretty interesting. 20mm DU or tungsten can do some serious damage to even moderately to heavy armored vehicles. M-2 and M-3s during the gulf were getting mobile kills on Iraqi tanks, anything APC or light armored was Swiss cheese. Once the tanks were immobile, they were TOW toast or the M-1s cleaned them up. The Iraqi light armor didn't even stand a chance. I love 20mm guns,, 30-35 is even more fun.. 3p rounds!

[nduffy]

I could also see Kirivan as a vehicle for science, medical teams as well as communications teams. Lots of potential uses.

[nduffy]

Kirivan

[nduffy]

I have also pondered the use of expeditionary vehicles in the MP. Go anywhere do anything vehicles, designed to go out for weeks without support and go just about anywhere...

[nduffy]

Another potential vehicle would be the LAV series vehicles. The Canadian Grizzly would be a fairly easy one to acquire and refurb for MP use. Its a pretty good vehicle and has a fairly good track record and there are parts available for it.