OT- Marines Moving to Guam (Split from DC Group Status/Comments)

[Matt Wiser]

3rd MarDiv is the Okinawa division. Though IRL they'll move to Guam and the Marianas in about 2-3 years, leaving only the AF on Okinawa (18th Wing at Kadena AFB).

[jester]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

3rd MarDiv is the Okinawa division. Though IRL they'll move to Guam and the Marianas in about 2-3 years, leaving only the AF on Okinawa (18th Wing at Kadena AFB).

Where did you get that info? Shutting down Oki for the UDP doesn't sound right.

Also, 3rd Mar Div also has Hawaii with the 3rd Marine Regiment as its base.

[LAW0306]

I dont know where you get your info Matt but you are wrong. I'm in 3rd MarDiv. Trust me we are just shuffleing the deck a little. We will be in Japan until they tell us too go home and that will be never. Jester PM me and I will give you the Unclass brief.

[Matt Wiser]

Law, I checked on a Yahoo news search: the USMC on Okinawa is relocating to Guam, according to AP, Fox News, and Pacific Daily News (Guam's newspaper and a USA Today affiliate). Stories dated 16 Feb, when SecState and her Japanese counterpart signed the agreement in Tokyo.

[kato13]

I think the HQ of the III MEF is relocating but not the entirety of the Marines. I thought at least a brigade was staying behind.

[Matt Wiser]

The story has the entire III MEF relocating to Guam (8,000 Marines and sailors, plus dependents), with Tinian becoming their training area. Only the USAF and some Army (some SF and the PAC-III Air Defense and Anti-Missile batteries) remaining on Okie.

Chico, clear your PM box: I wanted to send you a PM but couldn't as it said you've exceeded your quota.

[kato13]

Chico I will bump everyone's PM quota. Edit Done everyone can have 100 PMs now. We are a pretty small group so if this ever needs another bump let me know.

Matt do you have a link to that article. Everything I have found has 5000 marines unaccounted for. 13000 current , 8000 moving. 5000 lost to the ether.

[LAW0306]

The story has the entire III MEF relocating to Guam (8,000 Marines and sailors, plus dependents), with Tinian becoming their training area. Only the USAF and some Army (some SF and the PAC-III Air Defense and Anti-Missile batteries) remaining on Okie.

Chico, clear your PM box: I wanted to send you a PM but couldn't as it said you've exceeded your quota.


Sure Matt you always know all... and III MEF HQ Means all the Marines. I will write you from there when I'm stationed there next in 2012 or beyond. You need too read into things. Or know how the Marines are tasked Orged before you talk...8,000 Marines...cool seeings how there is around 40,000 to 60,000 marines in a MEF. Goto USMC.MIL an unclass web page and view the units in III MEF. They will tell you who is were and how. Please dont beleave me as that the whole MEF is moving. I'm just a commisioned officer in that division. please goto the web page and view for yourself. or just pm me and talk too me like eddie did. and shit things might work out. but you like too put things out here too show all you know whats up. cool do what you think is best.


By the way. Eddie is an honorable man that has all the stats he says. He was just concerned about me not trying too start a fight. I had lunch with him... and hope in the future can do some training between our units. As stated in most fitness reports. I would seek to serve with him in combat. Hope he had the same impression of me as we both talked like men and officers and I had a good time.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by LAW0306

By the way. Eddie is an honorable man that has all the stats he says. He was just concerned about me not trying too start a fight. I had lunch with him... and hope in the future can do some training between our units. As stated in most fitness reports. I would seek to serve with him in combat. Hope he had the same impression of me as we both talked like men and officers and I had a good time.

This is the best news I have seen all day. REALLY glad to have read this. I have heaps of respect for both of you so I'm glad you guys have respect and cordiality for each other.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Targan

This is the best news I have seen all day. REALLY glad to have read this. I have heaps of respect for both of you so I'm glad you guys have respect and cordiality for each other.

Fully agree.

[Matt Wiser]

OK, guys: here you go, several stories on the Marines being relocated to Guam.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...t-marines-guam

http://stripes.com/article.asp?secti...&article=60872

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news...marines_021709

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29245522

Then there's Pacific Daily News (Guam's paper and a USA Today affiliate)
with a lot on local reaction. http://www.guampdn.com

[LAW0306]

I made a nice long reply but I lost it some how. You Matt dont deserve a reply from me Your too ignorant. If any one cares PM me and I will explain the situation to you in a unclass way. I dont have time nor the will to fight dumb asses here. You are a fool and will continue too be one.

[Legbreaker]

Why attack the person for quoting news stories? All that does is get people offside...

Perhaps there's more to it than the enlisted personnel are being told? Wouldn't be the first time.

[kato13]

The news stories all say 8000 will leave out of 13000. None of the recent stories I have seen explicitly state that the 5000 will stay but it is a reasonable assumption as they don't mention them going anywhere else. Some stories seem to allude to all the marines leaving, but I do not believe that is correct.

Here are some details on the original 2005 Agreement
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us

The headquarters of III Marine Expeditionary Force will be relocated to Guam and other locations. Remaining Marine units in Okinawa will be realigned and reduced into a Marine Expeditionary Brigade. About 7,000 Marine officers and enlisted personnel, plus dependents, will be transferred out of Okinawa to Guam.

The numbers have changed a bit but I think the gist of the agreement has remained the same.

When I first read the recent stories it seemed like they were saying all the marines were leaving. I did some followups and some digging after LAW said it was untrue (not that I don't trust you LAW but I like to research things on my own before making any post). Now given the fact that the original agreement states a brigade is staying, no recent article states all 13,000 are leaving, and LAWs assertions have all led me to believe that my initial assessment was wrong.

Again I don't see what the big deal is. The media makes mistakes on reporting military matters all the time. We all know that.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by kato13

Again I don't see what the big deal is. The media makes mistakes on reporting military matters all the time. We all know that.

Agree with you kato but issues sometime arise from very little. It seems that Medias are as bad in US as they are over here. They just don't do their job anymore and if any military was fighting as they build news report, the ennemy would simply has to sit back and watch the opponent being destroyed by its own forces.

[LAW0306]

Why attack the person for quoting news stories? All that does is get people offside...

Perhaps there's more to it than the enlisted personnel are being told? Wouldn't be the first time.

I attack because after I told him he was wrong and I would PM him if he wanted to know whats going on he continues too act like a fool. he has not PM'd once.

I'm not enlisted so I would not know what you are talking about.


If you want to know PM me leg...I would love to chat.... I'm sure you would understand and say wow never knew that holy shit........

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by kato13

The media makes mistakes on reporting military matters all the time. We all know that.

So true. Before 9-11, a newspaper in Seattle ran a story claiming that the Israeli Army was larger and more powerful than the US Army and the USMC combined. A friend forwarded me the article and asked for comment. I replied that the Israeli Army at full mobilization fielded more soldiers than the active US Army. However, one ran into a few logistical problems. Comparing full mobilization in a nation that relies heavily on long-term reserves (Israel, Switzerland, and Sweden) to active duty in most other nations is a great example of apples and oranges. Also, the media doesn't generally understand that Israel cannot keep its forces at full mobilization for any length of time without facing economic collapse. I wouldn't expect the run-of-the-mill media type to understand what s/he is looking at when presented with a chart comparing US Army and Israeli Army divisions, other than to compare some numbers. Heck, the professionals have a hard enough time explaining what the numbers really mean given all the caveats.

Webstral

[Matt Wiser]

One thing about the media: they can be both right and wrong. Now, the original stories had the entire III MEF moving from Okinawa to Guam. I did some more digging tonite and found that one brigade will stay on Okinawa, but most are going to Guam. One issue with the media and the military is that so few reporters have done military service; back in the '60s and '70s, you could find reporters who had been in the military, and knew how things worked. Not today, unless you count the reporters who were embedded in OIF-1, and the vast majority of them, it seems, came away with an increased respect for the military (though I doubt their editors did). These days, if the media reports a military issue as the lead, it's usually bad news (the old adage "If it bleeds, it leads.").

[Mohoender]

The issue with the media is that they are simply not doing their job anymore. Neither about the military nor about any other field. Occasional mistakes would be normal but, today, mistakes, non-sence, fakes have become normality. They still remain some kind of starting point but that's it at most. Over the past couple of years I have not heard or read anything that was true in the medias. Worse, last year I tried to buy 5 different newspapers (2 rightists, 1 from the extreme right, 1 leftist and 1 communist). 4 out of 5 were basicaly saying the same on every subject. The only exception was the communist that was pure propaganda coming right out of the cold war (Great!). At last, I finaly found a weekly magazine that is going away from the "general official good thinking". It sales more every week, it's almost as untrue as the others but at least it gives us a different point of view.

I just wrote something to be released to the press a month ago. When the article came out, half of it was false (they just had to copy it and proved unable to achieve even that). They sent something to be checked by the person that was concerned and you could think that it was nice. The problem is that their email for that person was sent at 5:50 PM for an answer at 6:00 PM (on friday evening!).

The only thing to their credit is that this is the kind of critics I could make about many professionnals (too many IMO). Strangely, the crisis is hitting people hard but all the people I know that try to do their job properly are seeing a fair increase in their income.

[Targan]

I work as a media monitor, eight hours per day, five days per week. I'm at work right now as a matter of fact. Believe me I know all about the shortcomings of the news media.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Why attack the person...

You need to ask this?

[jester]

I knew it was bogus from the news reports about 8 or so years ago, plus I remember reading and oh yeah TYPING up some of the plans and data for it when Gen Rollings was working with alot of the other general grades on the whole realignment process just as 3rd Mr Div absorbed 3rd Marines and the 1st MEB as an entity disapeared.

It turns out I helped type of a statement the general gave to congress too. I recall reading it online and strangley know what I was reading and poof it hit me like a lead weight or one of those weapons...what we're dealing with here is....oh, sorry, I was channeling Aldo Ray for a moment.

Law standby for my pm per your request.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Targan

I work as a media monitor, eight hours per day, five days per week. I'm at work right now as a matter of fact. Believe me I know all about the shortcomings of the news media.

I knew . However, I still don't truly understand where it doesn't work. As individuals, all the people I know in the media are working honestly. Nevertheless, as a working group they almost never quite come up with something good.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

I knew . However, I still don't truly understand where it doesn't work. As individuals, all the people I know in the media are working honestly. Nevertheless, as a working group they almost never quite come up with something good.

That's the history of human race, Mo!

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

I still don't truly understand where it doesn't work. As individuals, all the people I know in the media are working honestly. Nevertheless, as a working group they almost never quite come up with something good.

There too much money to be made selling copy to be bothered with such inconsistently salable items as facts and well-reasoned interpretation. No one media outlet or even category of outlet is responsible. As Mohoender pointed out, the so-called leftist, centrist, and rightist media are all governed by the need to sell copy. The owners drive the agenda, and they want to make money. Journalistic integrity is for journalists, not owners. We, the consumers, feed into this by voting with our attention and our dollars. We prefer infotainment news anchored by hot young sweeties more than thoughtful analysis anchored by old men. Fox figured this out, and their numbers have forced the other major American players to emulate them to one degree or another. In the end, we have only ourselves to blame.

Webstral

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

You need to ask this?

Ok, so perhaps the question should be "why attack?"

Since none of us can know everything about anything, we're reliant on information we can gather from a variety of sources. Granted this is much, much easier today than it was even ten years ago, let alone twenty or more, everyone is limited by what they see, hear and read.

My point is that it's not always the fault of the person conducting the research and posting their results, in fact I'll go out on a limb and state that it's rarely the case.

It's probably 99% a problem with the available information, which since we're currently discussing the alledged move of a US Marine division (whole or in part), we're dependant heavily on the media (can't see too many military sources giving us the whole, unadulterated truth for a variety of reasons).

If "attacking" is necessary for whatever reason, lets limit it to the information rather than each other? We'll avoid a LOT of flame wars that way.

[Twilight2000v3MM]

WOW ... Guam sucks... we used to rotate guys there about 10 years ago for 30 days... it sssssssssssssssssssssucked. US INS had a detention camp there, like a tent city, for "undocumented workers" from countries they couldnt ship 'em back to like, at the time, Vietnam and Cuba since we didnt have any political ties with them. Wonder if the camps still there.

[jester]

Originally Posted by Twilight2000v3MM

WOW ... Guam sucks... we used to rotate guys there about 10 years ago for 30 days... it sssssssssssssssssssssucked. US INS had a detention camp there, like a tent city, for "undocumented workers" from countries they couldnt ship 'em back to like, at the time, Vietnam and Cuba since we didnt have any political ties with them. Wonder if the camps still there.

I had a freind of a freind from SOI who got sent there for Barracks duty, what sucked worse was it was OJT!! He didn't go to Alameda or Norfolk, nope just here's your ticket have fun.

We got some guys who had done duty there and when they hit the Fleet, they were just weird. Thankfully my only time there was in a hangar for a couple hours.