Portable Forges

[Raellus]

In 2000, horses have a renewed military importance, both as mounts for cavalry, and as draft animals.

Keeping them in working shape is going to be crucial. Working horses need shoes. Horseshoes get sprung or, eventually, worn down. Apparently, horses require re-shoeing after about 6 weeks (sooner, if the workload is greater).

As recently as the Great War, armies fielded portable forges, primarily for use by farriers. I imagine these would make a comeback in the Twilight War.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IOK5orgAUs

https://www.pinterest.com/bhauser194...ortable-forge/

In the American Civil War, armies fielded traveling forges (aka battery forges)- these being larger, and wheeled. I can envision T2k armies creating ad hoc traveling forges for units with lots of horses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_forge

I'm sure there would be other applications, besides just making and mending horseshoes (and horseshoe nails).

-

[swaghauler]

That's a portable COAL-FIRED forge. The modern Natural Gas or Propane (you can use either gas) Forge is portable too. The forges on the History Channel's FORGED IN FIRE are all portable forges. The big weight is in the Anvil. My Anvil is 600lbs. In addition to horseshoes and nails, you can make just about anything metal on a portable forge. To make nails by the dozen, old-school blacksmiths would take a HARDWOOD like white oak or ironwood that could resist burning and cut up to a dozen (or more) nail-shaped "slots" called "forms" in it. They would then coat that form with a bit of clay or water (to prevent/reduce the burning of the forms) and just pour mild steel into those slots. After about 2 to 3 minutes, you just dump out a dozen nails.

To make a screw, you have a tool like a T-handle that fits over a nail's head. You heat the nail to bright yellow hot, stick in a block of wood tip first, and then use the t-handle to twist the nail (by its head) into the form of a screw.

You can also make high tensile steel by putting mild steel into a container (like when they make Damascus on Forged In Fire) with carbon. Where does one get that carbon during the Apocalypse? From charcoal. Yes, your bag of Kingsford Charcoal on the back porch CAN be used to make high-tensile steel when combined with mild steel!

I love tinkering with my forge even more than I like welding!

[swaghauler]

For those wondering about blacksmithing, HOBART (yes the people who make welders) has a Blacksmithing academy in Ohio, near Troy OH. It supports both the Amish community and the horse community by teaching fundamental smithing skills.

[The Zappster]

I love Forged in Fire. We going to see you on the show Swag ?

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by The Zappster

I love Forged in Fire. We going to see you on the show Swag ?

Probably not. I'm not that good to work under those types of timelines. I mostly make "parts" for my Amish neighbors who need them as well as do a little welding and grinding for them (since they are technologically impaired). The pay isn't very much as a living goes but it is delicious! Homemade pies and bread, fresh eggs, and good milk. Not everything in this world compares favorably to a homemade Amish pie.

My buddy Erics boy Kevin (whom I also refer to as my nephew since Eric and I are basically brothers from another mother) is on track to compete. He works for a company that cuts metal for machine shops and makes knives in his spare time. He has some skills.

[The Zappster]

I'll have to keep my eyes open for him. Let us know if and when he gets in in cause I miss it.

[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

That's a portable COAL-FIRED forge. The modern Natural Gas or Propane (you can use either gas) Forge is portable too. The forges on the History Channel's FORGED IN FIRE are all portable forges. The big weight is in the Anvil. My Anvil is 600lbs.

A lot of farrier's anvils are significantly lighter, since they're dealing consistently in relatively small pieces of ironwork. Shop anvils typically run 150-250 pounds, while portable anvils (for on-site adjustments) are 75-150 pounds. Considering draft horses would likely become more popular for their ability to work heavy loads, the heavier anvils would likewise become more popular for their ability to work heavier shoes.

[ChalkLine]

Originally Posted by Vespers War

A lot of farrier's anvils are significantly lighter, since they're dealing consistently in relatively small pieces of ironwork. Shop anvils typically run 150-250 pounds, while portable anvils (for on-site adjustments) are 75-150 pounds. Considering draft horses would likely become more popular for their ability to work heavy loads, the heavier anvils would likewise become more popular for their ability to work heavier shoes.

Yeah, I have a farrier's anvil and it only weighs circa 40kg and I've not found anything I can't do on it.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

The modern Natural Gas or Propane (you can use either gas) Forge is portable too.

I imagine that natural gas and/or propane would be pretty hard to come by after 1997 or so. Hence, a return to coal.

-

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I imagine that natural gas and/or propane would be pretty hard to come by after 1997 or so. Hence, a return to coal.

-

Propane can be stored indefinitely so there is a possibility that older cannisters and tanks could be found to power the forges. And given that some refineries and oil/natural gas fields survived propane may actually be the one fuel that would be in at least very limited supply - i.e. it wouldnt break down like gas and diesel

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Propane can be stored indefinitely so there is a possibility that older cannisters and tanks could be found to power the forges. And given that some refineries and oil/natural gas fields survived propane may actually be the one fuel that would be in at least very limited supply - i.e. it wouldnt break down like gas and diesel

Oddly enough I've been thinking of this, that rural propane tanks and urban fryer fat dumpsters (biodiesel) are two resources a scenario can be built around.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

Oddly enough I've been thinking of this, that rural propane tanks and urban fryer fat dumpsters (biodiesel) are two resources a scenario can be built around.

they would be perfect places for propane to still be around - or for that matter where you had people either abandon their houses or were "at grandma's house" on the TDM and left behind perfectly good tanks of propane

[Ursus Maior]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I imagine that natural gas and/or propane would be pretty hard to come by after 1997 or so. Hence, a return to coal.

-

Would it work with a wood gas generator? It might be easier to install than to make sure one finds enough old propane tanks.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Ursus Maior

Would it work with a wood gas generator? It might be easier to install than to make sure one finds enough old propane tanks.

found a discussion about this - https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/126...gasquot-forge/

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Vespers War

A lot of farrier's anvils are significantly lighter, since they're dealing consistently in relatively small pieces of ironwork. Shop anvils typically run 150-250 pounds, while portable anvils (for on-site adjustments) are 75-150 pounds. Considering draft horses would likely become more popular for their ability to work heavy loads, the heavier anvils would likewise become more popular for their ability to work heavier shoes.

My anvil's weight includes the base. I have seen people take a cordless drill and "tap" a tree stump and mount a farrier's anvil right to the stump. Otherwise, you're going to need a base as the anvil isn't tall enough for you to work comfortably (unless you're kind of short).

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Ursus Maior

Would it work with a wood gas generator? It might be easier to install than to make sure one finds enough old propane tanks.

Yes, you can use that as fuel.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I imagine that natural gas and/or propane would be pretty hard to come by after 1997 or so. Hence, a return to coal.

-

Actually, there are a number of ways to generate gases that burn. In the thread "MANIFEST DESTINY RUMINATIONS" I discuss how to generate quantities of both hydrogen and oxygen for an airship. Both gases burn and could be used both in forging and for replacing gases in an Oxy-Acetalyne rig.

Wood Gasification is in fact a viable option IF you have enough wood to burn. The waste byproduct (charcoaled wood) is both a good fertilizer and a decent source of carbon (IF the wood was a hardwood) for making higher tensile steels.

The easiest method would be a Methane Gas Digestor. A digestor is simply a large airtight container (usually a plastic drum or tank of large size) that manure or feces is placed into and then soaked with water to form a slurry. A common microbe (the kind found in the product RID for septic tanks) is then added. The microbe will feed on the feces and generate METHANE Gas. This gas is trapped by the digestor and siphoned out of the top. In my area, many electric Co-ops use this gas (burned to power a generator) to create electricity, which then gets dumped into the grid. A bonus is that after the microbes have done their job, you can STILL use the manure to fertilize your fields. Landfills also generate huge quantities of Methane Gas and you will see power plants at such facilities burning the Methane not only to make electricity but also to reduce the explosion hazard of the landfill.

To concentrate such gas into propane bottles, all you need is a SCUBA tank compressor and you can pack a fair volume of gas into those bottles.

I actually use Digestors in my version of Krakow. The populace takes their urine and feces (in separate containers) to collection points in their neighborhoods. There they can trade 1Kg of waste for 2L of potable water. The urine is used in manufacturing (mostly to make explosives and gunpowder) and the feces goes to the digestors to make the industrial gases that Krakow needs. The city even offers this deal to the camps on the outskirts of the city because these are much-needed "resources." All human, chicken, and swine wastes are put into special digestors and once done producing Methane are BURNED in certain boilers in the power plant along with paper garbage and certain other refuse. The ash from THESE BOILERS is then combined with the manure slurry from horses, sheep, goats, and cows to fertilize the fields. The coal ash (which contains toxins) in the rest of the boilers is turned over to the Electric Furnace due to its high Carbon content. Thus enabling Krakow to make small multi-ton quantities of high-tensile steel from mild steel salvaged from vehicles and structures both inside and outside the city (salvage is key to my Krakow's survival).

In my world people don't waste resources willingly...

[ChalkLine]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

My anvil's weight includes the base. I have seen people take a cordless drill and "tap" a tree stump and mount a farrier's anvil right to the stump. Otherwise, you're going to need a base as the anvil isn't tall enough for you to work comfortably (unless you're kind of short).

Yeah, 'stumping' the anvil as we call it here (even if it has a stand) is a bit of an art. I think you probably know this but for other readers you have to be able to stand comfortably and rest your fist, knuckles down, in the anvil's deck with your arm loosely extended. This means if you have a wooden stump cutting it to the right height is a bit of a thing. Of course that's for serious swinging, if you're doing something like sheet metal shaping you can even sit at the anvil.

This is really making me wonder if I shouldn't get the old thing out and get some work done but I have pretty sensitive neighbours

[Ursus Maior]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

Actually, there are a number of ways to generate gases that burn. In the thread "MANIFEST DESTINY RUMINATIONS" I discuss how to generate quantities of both hydrogen and oxygen for an airship. Both gases burn and could be used both in forging and for replacing gases in an Oxy-Acetalyne rig.

Wood Gasification is in fact a viable option IF you have enough wood to burn. The waste byproduct (charcoaled wood) is both a good fertilizer and a decent source of carbon (IF the wood was a hardwood) for making higher tensile steels.

The easiest method would be a Methane Gas Digestor. A digestor is simply a large airtight container (usually a plastic drum or tank of large size) that manure or feces is placed into and then soaked with water to form a slurry. A common microbe (the kind found in the product RID for septic tanks) is then added. The microbe will feed on the feces and generate METHANE Gas. This gas is trapped by the digestor and siphoned out of the top. In my area, many electric Co-ops use this gas (burned to power a generator) to create electricity, which then gets dumped into the grid. A bonus is that after the microbes have done their job, you can STILL use the manure to fertilize your fields. Landfills also generate huge quantities of Methane Gas and you will see power plants at such facilities burning the Methane not only to make electricity but also to reduce the explosion hazard of the landfill.

To concentrate such gas into propane bottles, all you need is a SCUBA tank compressor and you can pack a fair volume of gas into those bottles.

I actually use Digestors in my version of Krakow. The populace takes their urine and feces (in separate containers) to collection points in their neighborhoods. There they can trade 1Kg of waste for 2L of potable water. The urine is used in manufacturing (mostly to make explosives and gunpowder) and the feces goes to the digestors to make the industrial gases that Krakow needs. The city even offers this deal to the camps on the outskirts of the city because these are much-needed "resources." All human, chicken, and swine wastes are put into special digestors and once done producing Methane are BURNED in certain boilers in the power plant along with paper garbage and certain other refuse. The ash from THESE BOILERS is then combined with the manure slurry from horses, sheep, goats, and cows to fertilize the fields. The coal ash (which contains toxins) in the rest of the boilers is turned over to the Electric Furnace due to its high Carbon content. Thus enabling Krakow to make small multi-ton quantities of high-tensile steel from mild steel salvaged from vehicles and structures both inside and outside the city (salvage is key to my Krakow's survival).

In my world people don't waste resources willingly...

Very enlightening post, thank you. I might use these elements in one way or the other for my Kraków-campaign that's due to start on Saturday. Ammunition production will play a part, too, since brass makes a valuable commodity in T2K, is easily minted into coinage and can be monopolized in trade by a ruler.