Rank and Age

[weswood]

I've been working on my bastardized gaming system trying to come up with an easy method of determining a characters rank & age. The system I've used for a base is Top Secret/SI. More of a spy genre than a militery genre. The basic idea is the characters have a pool of skill points, based on their intelligence. These points are used to purchase skills (duh..).

So I got to thinking about having the players purchase rank out of the pool.

Age is 16 plus a roll of 1d4 for a base age. Using 18 as an average, this is the rough chart I came up with.

Skill      Enlisted Age       Average
Points     Rank     Modifier  age     
Enlisted 
0           E-3      0         18
1           E-4      2         20
2           E-5      4         22
3           E-6      8         26
4           E-7     12         30
5           E-8     16         34
Officers     
0           O-1      4         22
1           O-2      5         23
2           O-3      7         25
3           O-4     10         28
4           O-5     14         32
5           O-6     18         36

Characters may be officers if they have a college degree, or be prior enlisted (having met certain attributes scores), thus the age difference. I topped out the avaulable rank so the character's couldn't order around everybody they met.

I'm not sure of "average" ages that go with ranks, expecially after E-5, and no real clue on officers. So basically, does this look about right? Should I change the ages per rank? raise the skill point costs?

Thanks for the info.

[weswood]

I obviously don't know what I'm doing, that post looked nothing like what I wrote, and don't bother opening the attachment, it gibberish. The 1st number is the skill point spent for the rank; 2nd number is Enlisted rank, 3rd is age modifier added to the 16+d4 roll, 4th is average age. Same sequnce for the Officer- rank, age modifier, average age


(edit by kato13. I think I fixed your chart. Extra spacing and tabs get stripped out of what ever is posted)

[natehale1971]

This might help... it's how long you've got to be in the service to reach a rank. while this is peacetime, it can help get an idea...

US Army (USA) / US Army National Guard (USNG) / US Army Reserves (USAR)

Candidates who successfully complete Warrant Officer Candidate School are appointed in the grade of Warrant Officer One. When promoted to Chief Warrant Officer Two, warrant officers are commissioned by the President and have the same legal status as their traditional commissioned officer counterparts. However, warrant officers remain single-specialty officers whose career track is oriented towards progressing within their career field rather than focusing on increased levels of command and staff duty positions.

There are five grades within the Army Warrant Officer Corps. A person is initially appointed as a Warrant Officer (WO1), and progresses to Chief Warrant Officer Two (CW2) after 2 years. Competitive promotion to Chief Warrant Officer Three (CW3), Chief Warrant Officer Four (CW4), and Chief Warrant Officer Five (CW5) occur at approximately six year intervals for Aviation Warrant Officers and five year intervals for those in technical fields.

E1 PV1 (Private E1) -
E2 PV2 (Private E2) 6 months
E3 PFC (Private First Class) 1 year
E4 SPC (Specialist) 18 months
CPL (Corporal)
E5 SGT (Sergeant) 4.2 years
E6 SSG (Staff Sergeant) 8.5 years
E7 SFC (Sergeant First Class) 13.6 years
E8 MSG (Master Sergeant) 17 years
1SG (First Sergeant)
E9 SGM (Sergeant Major) 20.8 years
CSM (Command Sergeant Major)
E10 SMA (Sergeant Major of the Army) *

W-1 Warrant Officer -
W-2 Chief Warrant Officer Two 2 years
W-3 Chief Warrant Officer Three 8 years
W-4 Chief Warrant Officer Four 14 years
W-5 Chief Warrant Officer Five 20 years

O-1 2LT (Second Lieutenant) -
O-2 1LT (First Lieutenant) 18 months
O-3 CPT (Captain) 4 years (3.5 years)
O-4 MAJ (Major) 10 years (6.5 years)
O-5 LTC (Lieutenant Colonel) 16 years (9.5 years)
O-6 COL (Colonel) 22 years (12.5 years)
O-7 BG (Brigadier General) *
O-8 MG (Major General) *
O-9 LTG (Lieutenant General) *
O-10 GEN (General) *
O-11 GOA (General-of-the-Army) *
O-12 General-of-the-Armies-of-the-United States Only held only by George Washington.

US Army General Officer Promotions: You can get more "political" than promotions to general officer (also known as "Flag Officer"). General Officers (Flag Officers) are those in the paygrades of O-7 through O-10. Fewer than one percent of career officers will ever be promoted to Flag Rank. General officers are nominated for promotion by the President of the United States, and confirmed by the Senate. You can't get more "political" than that. The services hold in-service promotion boards to recommend officers for general officer promotion to the President. When vacancies occur (a general officer gets promoted or retires), the President nominates officers to be promoted from these lists (with advice from the Secretary of Defense, Secretary of the applicable service, and the Service Chief of Staff/Commandant). Like the other commissioned officer ranks, Congress limits the number of General Officers that can serve on active duty. To be promoted to O-7, an officer must first complete a full tour in a Joint-Duty-Assignment (this is an assignment to a unit that is comprised of members from two or more of the services). This requirement can be waived, in some instances. The mandatory retirement age for all general officers is 62 (this can be deferred to age 64 in some cases). Under the law, an officer who has been promoted to O-7, but is not on the recommended list to O-8, must retire five years after promotion to O-7, or 30 years of active duty service, whichever is later. An O-8 must retire five years after being promoted to O-8, or 35 years of service, whichever is greater. The Secretary of the Service Concerned (ie, Secretary of the Army) or the President of the United States, can defer the above mandatory retirements, up until the time that the officer reaches the age of 62.


US Air Force (USAF)
E1 AB (Airman Basic) -
E2 Amn (Airman) 6 months
E3 A1C (Airman First Class) 16 months
E4 SrA (Senior Airman) 3 years
E5 SSgt (Staff Sergeant) 4.4 years
E6 TSgt (Technical Sergeant) 12.9 years
E7 MSgt (Master Sergeant) 16.9 years
E8 SMSgt (Senior Master Sergeant)19.7 years
E9 CMSgt (Chief Master Sergeant) 22.1 years
CCM (Command Chief Master Sergeant)
E10 CMSAF (Command Master Sergeant of the Air Force) *

'first shirt' or just 'shirt' is the nickname given to First Sergeants.

O-1 2nd Lt. (Second Lieutenant) -
O-2 1st Lt. (First Lieutenant) 18 months
O-3 Capt. (Captain) 4 years (3.5 years)
O-4 Maj. (Major) 10 years (6.5 years)
O-5 Lt.Col. (Lieutenant Colonel) 16 years (9.5 years)
O-6 Col. (Colonel) 22 years (12.5 years)
O-7 BGen. (Brigadier General) *
O-8 MajGen. (Major General) *
O-9 LtGen. (Lieutenant General)
O-10 Gen. (General) *
O-11 GenAF (General-of-the-Air Force) *
O-12 General-of-the-Air Forces-of-the-United States *

US Air Force General Officer Promotions: You can get more "political" than promotions to general officer (also known as "Flag Officer"). General Officers (Flag Officers) are those in the paygrades of O-7 through O-10. Fewer than one percent of career officers will ever be promoted to Flag Rank. General officers are nominated for promotion by the President of the United States, and confirmed by the Senate. You can't get more "political" than that. The services hold in-service promotion boards to recommend officers for general officer promotion to the President. When vacancies occur (a general officer gets promoted or retires), the President nominates officers to be promoted from these lists (with advice from the Secretary of Defense, Secretary of the applicable service, and the Service Chief of Staff/Commandant). Like the other commissioned officer ranks, Congress limits the number of General Officers that can serve on active duty. To be promoted to O-7, an officer must first complete a full tour in a Joint-Duty-Assignment (this is an assignment to a unit that is comprised of members from two or more of the services). This requirement can be waived, in some instances. The mandatory retirement age for all general officers is 62 (this can be deferred to age 64 in some cases). Under the law, an officer who has been promoted to O-7, but is not on the recommended list to O-8, must retire five years after promotion to O-7, or 30 years of active duty service, whichever is later. An O-8 must retire five years after being promoted to O-8, or 35 years of service, whichever is greater. The Secretary of the Service Concerned (ie, Secretary of the Air Force) or the President of the United States, can defer the above mandatory retirements, up until the time that the officer reaches the age of 62.



US Navy (USN) / US Navy Reserves (USNR)

E1 SR (Seaman Recruit) -
AR (Airman Recruit)
FR (Fireman Recruit)
CR (Constrcutionman Recruit)
HR (Hospitalman Recruit)
E2 SA (Seaman Apprentice) 9 months
AA (Airman Apprentice)
FA (Fireman Apprentice)
CA (Constructionman Apprentice)
HA (Hosptialman Apprentice)
E3 SN (Seaman) 9 months
AN (Airman)
FN (Fireman)
CN (Constructionman)
HM (Hospitalman)
E4 PO3 (Petty 3rd Class) 3.1 years
E5 PO2 (Petty 2nd Class) 5.2 years
E6 PO1 (Petty Officer 1st Class) 11.3 years
E7 CPO (Chief Petty Officer) 14.4 years
E8 SPO (Senior Chief Petty Officer)17.1 years
E9 MCPO (Master Chief Petty Officer) 20.3 years
CMCPO (Command Master Chief Petty Officer)
E10 MCPON (Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy) *

CMDCM (Command Master Chief Petty Officer)
FLTCM (Fleet Master Chief Petty Officer)
FORCM (Force Master Chief Petty Officer)
MCPON (Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy)

W-1 Warrant Officer d
W-2 Chief Warrant Officer Two d
W-3 Chief Warrant Officer Three d
W-4 Chief Warrant Officer Four s
W-5 Chief Warrant Officer Five d

O-1 ENS (Ensign) -
O-2 LTJG (Lieutenant, Junior Grade) 18 months
O-3 LT (Lieutenant) 4 years (3.5 years)
O-4 LCDR (Lieutenant Commander) 10 years (6.5 years)
O-5 CDR (Commander) 16 years (9.5 years)
O-6 CAPT (Captain) 22 years (12.5 years)
O-7 RDML (Rear Admiral Lower Half) *
O-8 RADM (Rear Admiral Upper Half) *
O-9 VADM (Vice Admiral) *
O-10 ADM (Admiral) *
O-11 FADM (Fleet Admiral) *
O-12 Admiral-of-the-Navy

A person is initially appointed as a Warrant Officer (WO1), and progresses to Chief Warrant Officer Two (CW2) after 2 years. Competitive promotion to Chief Warrant Officer Three (CW3), Chief Warrant Officer Four (CW4), and Chief Warrant Officer Five (CW5) occur at approximately six year intervals for Aviation Warrant Officers and five year intervals for those in technical fields.

US Navy Flag Officer Promotions: You can get more "political" than promotions to general officer (also known as "Flag Officer"). General Officers (Flag Officers) are those in the paygrades of O-7 through O-10. Fewer than one percent of career officers will ever be promoted to Flag Rank. General officers are nominated for promotion by the President of the United States, and confirmed by the Senate. You can't get more "political" than that. The services hold in-service promotion boards to recommend officers for general officer promotion to the President. When vacancies occur (a general officer gets promoted or retires), the President nominates officers to be promoted from these lists (with advice from the Secretary of Defense, Secretary of the applicable service, and the Service Chief of Staff/Commandant). Like the other commissioned officer ranks, Congress limits the number of General Officers that can serve on active duty. To be promoted to O-7, an officer must first complete a full tour in a Joint-Duty-Assignment (this is an assignment to a unit that is comprised of members from two or more of the services). This requirement can be waived, in some instances. The mandatory retirement age for all general officers is 62 (this can be deferred to age 64 in some cases). Under the law, an officer who has been promoted to O-7, but is not on the recommended list to O-8, must retire five years after promotion to O-7, or 30 years of active duty service, whichever is later. An O-8 must retire five years after being promoted to O-8, or 35 years of service, whichever is greater. The Secretary of the Service Concerned (ie, Secretary of the Navy) or the President of the United States, can defer the above mandatory retirements, up until the time that the officer reaches the age of 62.



US Marine Corps (USMC) / US Marine Corps Reserves (USMCR)

E1 Pvt. (Private) -
E2 Pfc. (Private First Class) 6 months
E3 LCpl. (Lance Corporal) 14 months
E4 Cpl. (Corporal) 26 months
E5 Sgt. (Sergeant) 4.8 years
E6 SSgt. (Staff Sergeant) 10.4 years
E7 GySgt. (Gunnery Sergeant) 'gunny' 14.8 years
E8 MSgt (Master Sergeant) 18.8 years
1stSgt. (First Sergeant)
E9 MGySgt (Master Gunnery Sergeant) 22.1 years
SgtMaj (Sergeant Major)
E10 SgtMajMarCor (Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps) *

W-1 Warrant Officer F
W-2 Chief Warrant Officer Two F
W-3 Chief Warrant Officer Three F
W-4 Chief Warrant Officer Four F
W-5 Chief Warrant Officer Five F

O-1 2ndLt. (Second Lieutenant)
O-2 1stLt. (First Lieutenant) 18 months
O-3 Capt. (Captain) 4 years (3.5 years)
O-4 Maj. (Major) 10 years (6.5 years)
O-5 LtCol. (Lieutenant Colonel) 16 years (9.5 years)
O-6 Col. (Colonel) 22 years (12.5 years)
O-7 BGen. (Brigadier General) *
O-8 MajGen. (Major General) *
O-9 LtGen. (Lieutenant General)*
O-10 Gen. (General) *
O-11 None

A person is initially appointed as a Warrant Officer (WO1), and progresses to Chief Warrant Officer Two (CW2) after 2 years. Competitive promotion to Chief Warrant Officer Three (CW3), Chief Warrant Officer Four (CW4), and Chief Warrant Officer Five (CW5) occur at approximately six year intervals for Aviation Warrant Officers and five year intervals for those in technical fields.

[Targan]

I read it through twice but couldn't find an explaination for there being two numbers for the time it takes for an officer. What is the second number in brackets?

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Targan

I read it through twice but couldn't find an explaination for there being two numbers for the time it takes for an officer. What is the second number in brackets?

Absolute minimium time in the service to make that rank... sorry... i thought i had inculded it.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

Absolute minimium time in the service to make that rank... sorry... i thought i had inculded it.

The minimums could be bypassed by a direct commission correct? A doctor for example.

[Legbreaker]

Absolutely!

Direct commisions usually require little more than an identified NEED and a few short weeks of military training.

An even more rapid entry can be had for military Chaplains I believe who receive virtually no training at all. Of course their rank is primarily honourary and promotion is tied closer to their church than the military (so I'm led to understand).

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Absolutely!

Direct commisions usually require little more than an identified NEED and a few short weeks of military training.

An even more rapid entry can be had for military Chaplains I believe who receive virtually no training at all. Of course their rank is primarily honourary and promotion is tied closer to their church than the military (so I'm led to understand).

That's correct. and some of the commissions (such as doctors and nurses) have you entering at a rank of 1LT or CPT to start out... mainly because of the masters and doctorate degrees are considered so important. I can't remember what kind of job it is, but once you are commissioned... you start out at as MAJ or LTC. I think it's one of the theoretical research fields, but i'm not exactly sure.

[Targan]

In my campaign the now Major Anthony Po was commissioned direct to Captain because he was a medical doctor. Then he was promoted to Major after the mission he led to backpack nuke WarPac HQ in Lublin. I still feel uncomfortable with him being a Major at the age of 27 but hey, there is a war on, right?

[Legbreaker]

I believe during some of the larger conflicts (WWI and II spring to mind), promotions could occassionally be extremely rapid.
One example I found after a very quick google search is http://glennvance.com/2007/07/12/gal...n-the-us-army/

Brigadier General at age 20 - not bad I'd have to say....

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Targan

In my campaign the now Major Anthony Po was commissioned direct to Captain because he was a medical doctor. Then he was promoted to Major after the mission he led to backpack nuke WarPac HQ in Lublin. I still feel uncomfortable with him being a Major at the age of 27 but hey, there is a war on, right?

My Google-fu has found
In 1918 the youngest Major in the US Army was 23.
In 1943 I believe there was also a 23 year old major.

Interestingly they were both Artillery officers.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I believe during some of the larger conflicts (WWI and II spring to mind), promotions could occassionally be extremely rapid.
One example I found after a very quick google search is http://glennvance.com/2007/07/12/gal...n-the-us-army/

Brigadier General at age 20 - not bad I'd have to say....

Its clearly obvious that he ONLY got such promotions on account of his oddball name... Galusha Pennypacker

[Legbreaker]

If he was getting paid according to the rank and managing to stay far, far away from the front lines, I don't think he'd care!

[weswood]

Dang, Nate, that's pretty impressive. Thanks much.
Also, thanks for fixing the table, Kato.

It looks like I came pretty close to being realistic.

[Rainbow Six]

I think the War would see lots of people holding high rank at a relatively young age, with the emphasis being placed on an individual's ability to do the job rather than age and / or length of service.

Wasn't George Custer promoted to General really, really quickly? Or is that an urban legend?

[Legbreaker]

Back before proper "professional" armies, rank was often based purely on social status. We're all probably aware of at least a few generals and other high ranking officers who were appointed to various commands without any military experience at all.

Thankfully, those days are largely past with only a few third world militaries carrying on with such stupidity.

[kato13]

I just read a little about Custer and apparently he was a Brigadier General of Volunteers at 23. This rank did not aparently apply to the regular army.

"At the end of the Civil War (April 15, 1865), Custer was promoted to major general of volunteers, but was reduced to his permanent grade of captain in the regular army."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Armstrong_Custer

Never knew there was any sort of differentiation

[Turboswede]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Back before proper "professional" armies, rank was often based purely on social status. We're all probably aware of at least a few generals and other high ranking officers who were appointed to various commands without any military experience at all.

Thankfully, those days are largely past with only a few third world militaries carrying on with such stupidity.

For field ranks I don’t think it was all a question of social status. My understanding is that in the Royal Army & Navy of the 16th-19th century officers would purchase a commission and then would purchase promotions as well. At the time officers were entitled to some of the “spoils of war� so to speak so that success on the battlefield or the high seas would provide the financial ability to buy promotions and rise in rank. Depending on the success of a campaign a young officer could rise in rank quickly, but during times of peace the higher field grade ranks were dominated by those wealthy enough to purchase the grade outright.

It was actually an ingenious way to finance the military before income taxes were established. “So Mr. Gates, your son wants to go by Colonel Gates? Swell, just send $10,000,000 to the treasury and we will rush out his pips and insignia�.

So, if you were an officer of modest means, there would be a real financial motivation for going to war in addition to status and adventure.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by kato13

I just read a little about Custer and apparently he was a Brigadier General of Volunteers at 23. This rank did not aparently apply to the regular army.

"At the end of the Civil War (April 15, 1865), Custer was promoted to major general of volunteers, but was reduced to his permanent grade of captain in the regular army."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Armstrong_Custer

Never knew there was any sort of differentiation

Yes, Volunteer rank was later known as temporary or wartime rank. I recently read a biography of Eisenhower. During the middle part of WW2, he held three and then four stars, but was still a permanent colonel. During WWI, he rose to lieutenant colonel, fell back to captain or major at the end of it, and took something like 13 years to get back to LTC.

Also during the Civil War, up to about 1910, one could have a "brevet" rank, too. A very temporary promotion, in which one's commander could authorize you to act as if you were one rank higher, likely to command a larger formation. Your pay and permanent rank, however, were unaffected until a normal promotion caught up to you.

[natehale1971]

Also remember during wartime and the activation of the Draft the US will reestablish the Army of the United States. With the Regular Army, National Guard and Reserves as the Core. But I also read that the National Guard becomes federalized as the National Guard of the United States. And how i can't remember just how it is intergrated into the Army of the United States. Does anyone else know anything about it?

As soon as i find the notes for it, i'll post the info here. but from what i remember...

Since SSN has replaced serial numbers... the letters after your SSN on your dogtags and in all your paperwork indicates what kind of soldier you are.

RA (Regular Army) volunteer/professional soldier
AUS (Army of the United States) Draftee
ANG (Air National Guard)
ARNG (Army National Guard)
ER (Enllisted Reserve)
OR (Officer Reserve)
USN (US Navy)
USAF (US Air Force)
USMC (US Marine Corps)

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

I think the War would see lots of people holding high rank at a relatively young age, with the emphasis being placed on an individual's ability to do the job rather than age and / or length of service.

Wasn't George Custer promoted to General really, really quickly? Or is that an urban legend?

Yes he was -- but it was a paperwork error. He was supposed to be promoted to First Lieutenant. By the time someone discovered it was a paperwork error, the Civil War was over, and his rank was reduced to Captain. He then resigned his commission, not to come back until years later -- but he was still reinstated not as a General, but as a Lieutenant Colonel, which was his rank when he died.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

I think the War would see lots of people holding high rank at a relatively young age, with the emphasis being placed on an individual's ability to do the job rather than age and / or length of service.

Wasn't George Custer promoted to General really, really quickly? Or is that an urban legend?

One day, on the way home from college for the day, I stopped at a Jack-in-the-Box. I was in uniform, and an old WW2 vet (I later looked up his name through US Army Locator, but can't remember it now -- this was before the Internet) and I started talking. He told me a lot of stuff related to being an officer, and a really cool tale.

He was one of Merril's Marauders, and there was a Japanese attack that began just after dark. The gist of it was (for this thread), that "I went to sleep as a Corporal, and by daylight I was a 1st Lieutenant." So yes, under some circumstances, promotions can happen in wartime really fast!

[pmulcahy11b]

Oh, and I forgot -- IIRC in the late 1980s the military eliminated Brevet ranks. You get a field promotion, you keep it (usually -- your superiors can contest your keeping that rank).

I always remember a scene from some HBO movie about the Battle of the Bulge (sorry, once again my memory fails me as top the name). The Captain says to the 2nd Lieutenant after the LT mouths off to him, "You're an officer. Act like it."

The LT answers, "Sir, two days ago I was a Private!"

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

I think the War would see lots of people holding high rank at a relatively young age, with the emphasis being placed on an individual's ability to do the job rather than age and / or length of service.

Wasn't George Custer promoted to General really, really quickly? Or is that an urban legend?

George A. Custer was another one of handful child Generals. One thing is Custer was had just Graduated from West Point so he and those in his class were at least 21-22 at the start of the war. I believe he was 23, and he was brevet promoted from 2nd Lt to Brigadier General, due to the fluid career path. Due to the fact that Civil War Officer held ranks in the Volunteers and Regular Army. Their Volunteer Rank could and general would be much higher than say Custard Regular rank of 2nd Lt which as Paul pointed out was an oversight. Also in the Civil War several Colonels had more or less purchase such ranks, due to the fact they help outfit the Regiments they had inducted into the Army with. Of course, many of these Colonels who couldn't do the job, were out of the job quickly or made aide-of-camp and shuffle around and got lost, much like happen to Custer.

Also it wasn't unheard of a NCO on becoming a field commission Officer due to the immediate need of having Officer.

Also Major Winter of the 2nd Battalion of the 506th comes to mind. The story of Band of Brothers, many of the officers of the 506th that were Majors and Lt Colonels all started out as 2nd Lt, and 1st Lt when the regiment formed. Winters went from 1st Lt to Major, from D-Day to the time he was released back into Civilian life. If the war had lasted much longer he would of been Lt. Colonel due to the fact he had been 'Acting' Battalion Commander for practically 6 months for 2nd Battalion, even though there were Majors and Lt. Colonels who probably should of been place in the position over the Captain in the Regiment and the Division. Yet so many other position were being done, by people of lesser rank, they let the Captain led the Battalion, since the same Majors and Lt Colonels were holding staff positions. Besides even in combat what a Colonel who is Regimental Combat Team CO wants he gets.

There are numerous stories such as this that happen in Civil War, where people where brevet promoted into positions due to their ability and rarely did an officer who held rank would go after the position. Largely due that for many, they would be going backwards, or they had been moved to their position for the safety of the men, to begin with.

In the Civil War, and some Spanish American War Regiments still elected the Officers of the Regiment. Once they had been inducted many of these elected Officers were found to be incapable of their jobs and replaced, with these officers being sent home, or reduced in rank and sent to some other unit.

[Targan]

I think the best thing about Custer's career was the way it ended. And it wasn't just his knee that was wounded (excuse my odd antipodean sense of humor).

[Abbott Shaull]

Probably for Custer it was for the best. He was too reckless, and if it wasn't for the Civil War probably never made it to Captain much less Lt Colonel and due to his service in the Civil War, commander of a Cavalry a Regiment.

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Targan

I think the best thing about Custer's career was the way it ended. And it wasn't just his knee that was wounded (excuse my odd antipodean sense of humor).

I had read a biography that had been written about Custer (in fact it had been written by one of the Amerindian warriors who had served with him, and later against him). In that account it was said that Custer had loved and respected the Amerindian people's, but in the end it was his love for his country (and his own projected political career in the post-civil war landscape) out weighed that respect. Also in this book it was said that the only child that Custer had, was an Amerindian half-breed. It's also been said that when he was killed, his was the only body not to be desecrated by the victorious Amerindian warriors by Sitting Bull's direct order. They said he had only two injuries... a gunshot to the head, and the other to his heart.

Through out the book, the Amerindians interviewed talked about how Custer had continued to publiclly make a major deal of attention to the plight of the Amerindians who lived in the reservations was the biggest reason why he had never returned to his wartime rank of Brigadier General.

But my favourite thing about Custer is this little song.

The first and probably best-known Custer pop song was Mister Custer ("Please Mister Custer, I don't wanna go"), a Billboard #1 novelty hit of 1958 for performer Larry Verne, in which "a voice from the rear" of the Seventh Cavalry charge asks "What'm I doing here?" and "Mind if I be excused the rest of the afternoon?" Words and Music by Fred Darian, Al DeLory, and Joe Van Winkle. In the UK, it was successfully covered by Charlie Drake.

[Graebarde]

Brevet rank was given for acts of distinguished service. At the time of the War Between the States there were no medals as there are now. The Medal of Honor became the first medal of valor issued during the war. Custer was jumped up because he was a fireball. He helped save the day at Gettysburg, as well as more than one other major battle.

As for pay, I'm not sure if brevets recieved the full pay of the brevet rank they held. I don't think they did.


'Black Jack' pershing jumped from Captain to Brigadier with a stroke of the pen by Teddy Roosevelt. At the time there were only two grades the President could bestow on an individual, 2nd Lieutenant and Brigadier General. TR wanted Pershing promoted for distinguished services, but could no promote him to major, so appointed him Brigadier. Jumped over ALL the majors, light colonels and full bulls in the army at the time as well as several Captains senior to him, He was NOT a popular man after that, as if he was before, but he was a very grand officer from what I've read. though not overly popular. But you do not have to be popular to be successful and good at the job.

Grae
(back from a hiatus of boredom)

[Targan]

Welcome back Grae. Always better when you're around.