Poll - Favorite Assault Rifle

[Panther Al]

Its the AUG for me: nothing against the black rifle, its a solid design, but I feel from a usability point of view the AUG is a handier weapon, especially for mounted troops. If I had to pick a rifle to equip my army, the exact version would be in 6.8spc though, and yes, there are 6.8spc AUGs out there: they are license made in the USA by MSAR.

[pmulcahy11b]

I think the sheer amount of 5.56 NATO, 7.62mm NATO, 7.62/5.45mm Kalashnikov, and 7.62mm Nagant cartridges in the world and the companies set up to manufacture them will make their replacement difficult and a long time in coming. Eventually, though, I think we will skip over caseless ammunition and replace them with ETC for rifles and heavier weapons, and retain the cased ammo for pistols. (Don't hold your breath for an ETC rifle, though -- I think those will be something my nephew's grandchildren will have rather than any time soon.)

BTW, my nephew got lucky -- his unit at 1ID went into an extended training/reserve role, and he has yet to see either Iraq or Afghanistan. It doesn't bode well for his future in the Army (the Army favors combat vets for promotions and choice positions), but I consider him lucky.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Eventually, though, I think we will skip over caseless ammunition and replace them with ETC for rifles and heavier weapons, and retain the cased ammo for pistols. (Don't hold your breath for an ETC rifle, though -- I think those will be something my nephew's grandchildren will have rather than any time soon.).

I recently read that one of the several reasons the G11 was not adopted by the German and U.S. armies is that caseless ammo has a potential issue with cooking off in the gun. If I understand correctly, conventional ammo helps with heat loss because the brass from spent rounds retains and takes some of the heat of discharge with it when it's ejected from the gun. Caseless ammo doesn't have this beneficial property. The gun, therefore, retains a lot of heat and this can, theoretically at least, lead some of the unfired caseless ammo to cook off in the gun. This could be catastrophic.

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I recently read that one of the several reasons the G11 was not adopted by the German and U.S. armies is that caseless ammo has a potential issue with cooking off in the gun. If I understand correctly, conventional ammo helps with heat loss because the brass from spent rounds retains and takes some of the heat of discharge with it when it's ejected from the gun. Caseless ammo doesn't have this beneficial property. The gun, therefore, retains a lot of heat and this can, theoretically at least, lead some of the unfired caseless ammo to cook off in the gun. This could be catastrophic.

from my research that issue was solved about 2 years prior to the project being scrubbed. the solution was in three parts IIRC changing the formula for the ammo to be more heat tolerant, improving the barrels heat dissipating capability, and i believe a mechanical safety to prevent a cook-off from chambering more rounds.

[Panther Al]

Well, I appear to have spoken a bit too soon:

Jordan has decided to license build 6.8spc LWRC rifles for their royal guard, true, they say only 5000 for now, but since they have the facility to make more, I wouldn't be surprised if a few years down the road the rest of the Jordanian Army goes down the 6.8 road.

[waiting4something]

I don't see why the 6.8 is such a big deal? The round is really only made for close fighting. It's like a American made version of the 7.62x39mm. 6.8 is more a specialty round then a jack of all trades. The bullets are heavier and from what I have seen magazine capacity gets reduced also. Not dogging it, but it just seems lake a bad chose to have if you have to fight outside a built up area.

[Panther Al]

Um, yes and no. The whole 5.56 vs 6.5 vs 6.8 is half fact and half hyperbole. They each have strengths and weaknesses over each other. 5.56 doesn't hit as hard as some (including me who has used it as it was meant) but you can carry a lot of it easily. The 6.5 has the range - and the hitting power at range - that has to seen to believed, but is expensive and is optimised for long distance work (and admittedly its damn good at it). The 6.8 hits much harder than the 5.56, somewhat harder than the 6.8 under 400m, and is about the same at 400m+ as the 5.56 in accuracy and hitting power, all of which I am fine with. Downside is as mentioned, ammo capacity of a 30rd mag drops to 25. I personally don't have a problem with that. You can always have built 30rd versions that won't be much bigger so you can still use most ammo pouches out there, but I'll agree the roughly 40% increase in weight compared to 5.56 does suck.

But with harder hitting bullets you won't have to use as many (not that joe won't anyways, joe being joe) to get the same results.

As to the 6.5, if I wanted a sniper round, it would be at least a 7.62.

Or you could look at it this way:
The 5.56 was designed by varmint shooters to shoot varmints.
The 6.5 was designed by game hunters to take down game with a AR platform.
The 6.8 was designed by soldiers to kill other soldiers with the same AR platform.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I think the sheer amount of 5.56 NATO, 7.62mm NATO, 7.62/5.45mm Kalashnikov, and 7.62mm Nagant cartridges in the world and the companies set up to manufacture them will make their replacement difficult and a long time in coming.

Oh I agree- the inertia that these rounds have is immense which makes the idea of rechambering the ar series a non-starter (even though the ar lends itself to it). If there is ever going to be change from the 5.56 to the 6.8 it would have to be because of the wholesale replacement of the ar series as a whole, something that won't happen soon.

Though if it did I can easily see the brits coughing politely as we swap to a .270 round and saying "We told you so..."

[ChalkLine]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Its the AUG for me: nothing against the black rifle, its a solid design, but I feel from a usability point of view the AUG is a handier weapon, especially for mounted troops. If I had to pick a rifle to equip my army, the exact version would be in 6.8spc though, and yes, there are 6.8spc AUGs out there: they are license made in the USA by MSAR.

I have a friend in the ADF and he is not a fan of the AUG/F88 because he finds it's difficult to shoulder with his body armour on. He prefers conventional rifles with a sliding stock so he can adjust it.