US Recovery Plan

[Matt Wiser]

Nicely done, Chico. Now, what's going on west coastwise? Or have you guys even discussed things west of the Rockies?

[chico20854]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

Nicely done, Chico. Now, what's going on west coastwise? Or have you guys even discussed things west of the Rockies?

We have discussed it in detail.


And written none of it down yet.

I'm going to try to find some time in the next few weeks to write some more... I can claim to the family I have an "important project" I need to work on and avoid endless days of babysitting!

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by chico20854

I'm going to try to find some time in the next few weeks to write some more... I can claim to the family I have an "important project" I need to work on and avoid endless days of babysitting!

That will be perfectly true and we can all be brought up as witnesses of how impotant this project is. Not to you only but to an ever growing international community.

[Olefin]

Love to see that someone has put together an alternate timeline like this. I played T2000 back when it first came out and what eventually killed it was the total revulsion the group took to the way the US modules, especially Kidnapped, Howling Wilderness and City of Angels, were written.

I know that some of the writers of T2000 are part of this forum and frankly they might not like me saying this. But they took a game that made sense and basically took all the fun out of it. And the fact that most of the rest of the world, as depicted in the modules, wasnt going thru that kind of total killoff of its population really showed that what they wanted to do was turn the game into Aftermath, with no surviving government and military at all, at least in the US.

Our Gamemaster bought them and then said that they were total player killers and that he wasnt prepared to cheat that much to keep our group from getting wiped out over and over.

After looking at them we agreed with him. Plus we also played Traveller and we had just bought Traveler 2300 AD. And the timeline as depicted made absolutely no sense with that what was happening to the US as depicted in those modules. With the drought as depicted and the total destruction of the forces of both MilGov and CivGov the US would have taken hundreds of years to ever get back on its feet, if ever.

As to arguments about canon and ignoring it. Canon can be ignored when it makes no sense and kills a game. And in the case of Twilight 2000 the so called canon of the American modules is exactly that.

Which is not to say they were all bad. Armies of the Night, Red Star/Lone Star, the Airlords of the Ozarks, Allegheny Uprising and The Last Submarine Trilogy make sense (even though I highly doubt only one SSN would still be around - what happened to all the Ohios as only one was ever mentioned being sunk) and are good modules. Even Urban Guerilla, while presenting a detestible group, is playable although just barely.

But after that, the canon should be ignored if it goes off into total unreality. And that is exactly what it did. An alternate reality has to be believable - thats why Turtledove's books are so well received and others arent.

[Graebarde]

Originally Posted by chico20854

We have discussed it in detail.


And written none of it down yet.

I'm going to try to find some time in the next few weeks to write some more... I can claim to the family I have an "important project" I need to work on and avoid endless days of babysitting!

Good luck with that!!

Grae

[Webstral]

It occurs to me that my first response to the DC Group's work needs to reflect more of the many positive items therein. Having spent many, many hours on Thunder Empire and other projects, I know how much effort goes into their projects.

I love the acknowledgment that the Joint Chiefs have little or no leverage over theater commanders by 2001. This is a very important dynamic that has a big effect on how recovery develops. The theater and regional commanders become much more like nobility than modern flag officers. Like the dukes of Germany in the time of Otto I, the theater commanders are, in effect, peers with the crown. They are coordinating with the throne, but they are not in a position to be removed, eliminated, or otherwise seriously affected by the crown's displeasure. Individual personalities become extremely important under these circumstances. Good call, gentlemen!

Going further with the importance of individual personalities, I love the conflict between SACEUR and CINCLANT. Equally, I love the implied effect of CINCLANT's attitude on the eastern Virginia enclave. The whole command is in the doldrums due to command influence. By the same token, the Europe veterans have a better attitude because their commander has a better attitude. I think that this phenomenon supports my contention that the returning Europe veterans need time to refit, reorganize, and reestablish the right mentality. SACEUR needs to get out there and speak to battalion formations about the sanctity of the mission, their role in rebuilding the nation, etc. SACEUR needs face time to work his magic, just as CINCLANT's presumed absence has created storm clouds over his command.

The idea of reforming the former divisions as brigades carrying division lineages is a good one. I endorse it wholeheartedly.

I'm glad Korea was covered. I'd hate to think that the 8th Army boys were abandoned to their fates in the Far East.

One item that gives me pause is the apparently large numbers of functional vehicles the forces from Europe fall in on in early 2001. The listed reorganization of combat for brigades includes heavy engineer battalions that seem to take possession of large quantities of operable heavy equipment. Who has been maintaining this equipment? What have they been doing with it? How is all of this gear suddenly available for the troops from Europe? I'm not saying answers aren't possible, but they should be provided to make the equipping of several battalions of combat engineers more believable.

I like the creative approach to using Seabees in support of each new corps.

You've added a lot of high-end functional naval vessels to the US arsenal, not least of which are three nuclear submarines. Who has been providing maintenance for them?

The notes on the South Jersey enclave are appreciated. Although everyone has suffered, not every location is going to experience the same level of degradation. I wonder, though, whether one simply restarts a nuke plant. If so, why have so few other plants been restarted? Again, I'm not saying it can't be done it deserves some explanation, if only to set it apart from other non-functional nuke plants around the country.

I appreciate seeing First District mentioned. The threat of withdrawn resources will mean more if the Joint Chiefs actually possess the means to distribute resources thus the desire for airships.

The resumption of classes at Princeton is an interesting idea. I like it, but it also begs further explanation. How have the faculty and staff kept themselves alive during the interim? Who is feeding them now? As before, I'm not saying it can't be done. I'd like to see it done very much. Nevertheless, how the academics find themselves not among the half of the US population that has died by early 2001 and available for the resumption of instruction deserves explanation.

I love the creativity and optimism!

Webstral

[fightingflamingo]

Web,
we're going under the assumption that a number of reactor operators are available from the US navy, as either their ships are laid up or are destroyed. With the boombers the Navy typically has two crews, so there should be some reactor techs available.
As far as restarting, all the reactors are adjacent to navagable waterways in NJ, so either the Navy will get some sort of salvage vessel which can provide initial start up electricity on site, or they will bring in mobile electrical generators to provide start up power. Once the Oyster Creek (near Toms River) plant is running, we were going to have a tech school established.

After the initial restarts, we're assuming that a cadre of skilled techs is developed, whom can specialize in the restart phase, which I'd assume to be more difficult, then they could be replaced by operators trained at Oyster Creek.

FF

[kato13]

Originally Posted by fightingflamingo

With the boombers the Navy typically has two crews, so there should be some reactor techs available.

This was one of the most serious problems with the last sub series IMO. I know they wanted a reason to put the players on the sub but given the Blue/Gold crew system and the fact that there was a callup of Naval reserves and no boats to put them on the math of "no qualified submariners" did just not add up.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by fightingflamingo

Web,
we're going under the assumption that a number of reactor operators are available from the US navy, as either their ships are laid up or are destroyed. With the boombers the Navy typically has two crews, so there should be some reactor techs available.
As far as restarting, all the reactors are adjacent to navagable waterways in NJ, so either the Navy will get some sort of salvage vessel which can provide initial start up electricity on site, or they will bring in mobile electrical generators to provide start up power. Once the Oyster Creek (near Toms River) plant is running, we were going to have a tech school established.

After the initial restarts, we're assuming that a cadre of skilled techs is developed, whom can specialize in the restart phase, which I'd assume to be more difficult, then they could be replaced by operators trained at Oyster Creek.

FF

I'll support it. Of course, you don't need my support, but I'll give it anyway. Certainly, I think the idea of using Navy guys to operate the nuke plants is a good use of human resources, and these guys are more likely to be available than the civilian operators. (One could make a case for the civilian operators being taken into protective custody in at least one or two cases early on.)

I have a couple of follow-on questions:
How transferrable are the skills for operating naval vessel nuke plants and commercial plants?
How long does it take to train a newbie to do this? Presumably, one can't just pick someone off the street and get a nuclear plant operator within three months. Obviously, it's better to get someone with as close a background as possible to minimize the transition time.
I understand that Oyster Creek shuts down prior to the Thanksgiving attack. Is this sufficient to avoid EMP damage? Have you guys addressed why Oyster Creek is operable while so many other nuke plants throughout the country (including at least one in New England) are not?

Following up on the discussion of resource priorities from the Manifest Destiny thread on airships, I believe you guys are right to prioritize nuke plant operation in the recovery plan. It's hard to imagine what would come higher on the list, aside from growing food and physical security.

If southern New Jersey has reliable electricity, then it might be possible to manufacture ammonia fertilizers. In this way, the bumped-up military presence in the area would translate directly into increased agricultural productivity.

Webstral

[natehale1971]

having brigades carrying the linages of Divisions in the post-Twilight US Army is something I had done in my 2300ad campaign as well. the new 'divisional' level was called battlegroups, and Corps remained as the same title, but became a coordinating headquarters for large-scale combat. if i can find the notes i had for my 2300ad campaign i'll post them if anyone wants to see them.