Cooperville Part I:

[.45cultist]

Yes, but there are rules for industry in the new rules, so I'm bundling items I had in third edition and trying to see what's required. The third edition kind of hand waved this area.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

Yes, but there are rules for industry in the new rules, so I'm bundling items I had in third edition and trying to see what's required. The third edition kind of hand waved this area.

Third edition does have broad generalizations for A, B, C, D, E tech levels. Then a chart for determining tech level of an unknown encounter. Most common are the least being D or E and really rare to meet A. Only the Frozen Chosen, Snake Eaters, and other Morrow personnel were A tech level if I remember correctly.

I don't have a copy of 4E for myself yet.

[Gelrir]

Groups with explicitly "Tech Level A" in the Third Edition:

• Snake Eaters - that's what they had in their bunkers
• Rich Five - they were frozen with Tech A stuff, but if you presume the KFS are the Rich Five, they could be making some Tech A stuff 150 years after The Big Oops.
• The Morrow Project
• Wandering Warlock

(The Frozen Chosen are Tech Level C. And I too haven't gotten the 4th Edition.)

So this community is manufacturing:

• smokeless ammunition, suitable for gas-operated weapons
• semi-automatic handguns
• gas-operated assault rifles

They are thus either making/mining, have made/mined, or have been given a hoard of:

• metals needed for all of the above (ordnance steel, zinc, brass, lead, tool steel, etc.)
• chemicals needed for all the above (nitrates, acids, sulfur, at least; lubricants for the machinery and the weapons)
• a gun-factory worth of machine tools
• dimensioned drawings for the weapons and ammo, with tolerances and units that more or less match the machinery in the gun-factory, the materials and processes available, and the skills of the workers

And they have some way to power a gun factory, an ammunition plant, and possibly a chemical plant. Plus they have skilled employees: for example, Para-Ordnance nowadays has about 60-65 workers, and they clearly don't mine their own iron ore, make their own ammunition, produce their own electrical power, etc.

I don't agree this has to be post-recovery (it's not all of America, after all; and many campaigns feature the KFS having all these capabilities) -- but it seems a bit ... much, for one community. Is this part of a larger nation: like, say, the Connecticut Valley in the early United States? Or something established ab initio by the Morrow Project?

"Rules for industry", mmm? How do those work?

--
Michael B.

[.45cultist]

The 4TH kept all that and has economic, resources rules centered around X amount of labor and materials for Y item at tech level Blank. economics center on the requirements for a kg of black or smokeless powder. I'm not doing the rules justice. Considering for 3RD ed. I was scrounging small industry, high school science and shop teachers for machinery and most ammo cases, bullets. And I had jewelers making the cups, copper foil and anvil for modern primers. I hope with this to have a 1940's- 1950's mix of tech. The people the team will encounter use black powder rifles for hunting because it's cheap and have M1911's under their jackets. BTW I forgot 230gr ball in the list. Perhaps the commercial M1911 load I read about: 230gr. cupro-nickel JFP@ 830-850fps.

[kalos72]

Sounds like I might have to get the 4thE...some good data there.

[.45cultist]

A few on the yahoo group were critical, but I'm trying to give it a fair shake. The industry rules were needed for reconstruction scenarios. Now rules for how the fusion forge improves things might be in a Starnaman module.

[kalos72]

Since I get sooooo deep in the details, HOW you actually rebuild society was always a sticking point in my T2k stuff too.

Even to the point of reaching out the HARN world and trying to modify it to fit...so any Morrow efforts into the same would be nice to see.

Shame I have to buy it to find out if its worth it.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

I don't agree this has to be post-recovery (it's not all of America, after all; and many campaigns feature the KFS having all these capabilities) -- but it seems a bit ... much, for one community. Is this part of a larger nation: like, say, the Connecticut Valley in the early United States? Or something established ab initio by the Morrow Project?

"Rules for industry", mmm? How do those work?

--
Michael B.

It is a whole lot much for one community.

The KFS is a nation. The leadership started after the war and has had 150 years to prepare and advance to where they are.

Granted they are self limiting because the Five are self serving and withhold advancements or resources to keep the common people in line.

Any community that is at the village level can and should have one possibly two industries that they do well. Something that is likely under the categories of Food, Shelter, and Clothing.

Trade in the PAW (Post Apocalyptic World) is going to be salvage or the occasional surplus. Anything up for trade is spare or the village can't use it or eat it.

Mining coal by hand can be one. Smelting salvaged metals could be another. Selling off or trading off trouble makers or selling themselves into indentured servitude for aid.

A successful agrarian village may export grain and cheese but, only for wool products or coal.

A successful barter village on a major city may trade copper wire, rubber tires, and women for meat, cheese, and flour.

The KFS may trade buffalo rifles but only for refined metal or functional mechanical devices like microwaves, radios, industrial kitchen equipment.

Etc.

[kalos72]

T2k had the same vibe...I disagree.

No reason why a village with the right combination of resources, can't succeed in PAW.

I think more importantly it comes down to leadership. But my Morrow experience is limited I have to admit.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by kalos72

T2k had the same vibe...I disagree.

No reason why a village with the right combination of resources, can't succeed in PAW.

I think more importantly it comes down to leadership. But my Morrow experience is limited I have to admit.

It goes against the theme of the game.

[kalos72]

How so? Again please forgive me I am a Morrow newb...

But I thought that game is about the fight to recover....not the ultimate failure and desolation of never being able to improve your standing.