KFS Refit

[Gelrir]

The KFS is described as "not having had a war in a century"; I don't think they would feel the need for tank destroyers (for example) or even, perhaps, tanks.

An armored car should be more than enough to deal with the cap-and-ball musket neighbors; the Air Force can put the fear of death into Truckers and other visiting "trouble".

--
Michael B.

[Gelrir]

Some of the MRAP vehicles use the 5 or 10 ton "army truck" powertrain, wheels, and automotive systems. I would suspect the KFS might find the same plan to be attractive: pick some heavy truck in production within the KFS, and build an armored body to plonk down on the chassis. Sprinkle with machine guns to taste.

Armor thick enough to stop a .50 cal AP round is probably "tank" level armor in the 22nd Century, in any case (outside of Texas and northern Mexico).

--
Michael B.

[kato13]

I agree with most of what has been said, but I can see the KFS keeping a few Heavy vehicles ready to counter any Morrow Teams still out there.

Morrow Teams (and anyone they train in insurgency) will have many options for dealing with armored trucks, but far fewer to deal with Sherman/M48 level tanks.

[Gelrir]

It's not too clear from Bullets and Bluegrass how long the KFS has been grabbing MP teams and gear ... long enough to have copied fusion reactors, resistweave, and V150s (in the form of V300 armored cars). And of course they probably have known about the Project since before the Atomic War.

In the end, it's a call for the referee/PD to make.

--
Michael B.

[RandyT0001]

There will have to be some sort of adjustment for the 2017 setting because the armor school moved from Fort Knox to Fort Benning in 2010. The M1 tanks and Bradleys that the KFS copied for use against the MP have moved to Georgia.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by RandyT0001

There will have to be some sort of adjustment for the 2017 setting because the armor school moved from Fort Knox to Fort Benning in 2010. The M1 tanks and Bradleys that the KFS copied for use against the MP have moved to Georgia.

There is plenty at Ft. Campbell and local National Guard units.

[ArmySGT.]

KFS river monitors? Like the converted LCMs in Viet Nam....

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

It's not too clear from Bullets and Bluegrass how long the KFS has been grabbing MP teams and gear ... long enough to have copied fusion reactors, resistweave, and V150s (in the form of V300 armored cars). And of course they probably have known about the Project since before the Atomic War.

In the end, it's a call for the referee/PD to make.

--
Michael B.

The KFS is founded by the Rich Five....... They are five families of industrialists that were part of the Council of Tomorrow.

They didn't steal those things and copy them. They were frozen in their own cryosleep capsules with that stuff and the "2000". Families (minions) loyal to the Rich Five.

[Project_Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

Some of the MRAP vehicles use the 5 or 10 ton "army truck" powertrain, wheels, and automotive systems. I would suspect the KFS might find the same plan to be attractive: pick some heavy truck in production within the KFS, and build an armored body to plonk down on the chassis. Sprinkle with machine guns to taste.

Armor thick enough to stop a .50 cal AP round is probably "tank" level armor in the 22nd Century, in any case (outside of Texas and northern Mexico).

--
Michael B.

Wasn't both the M113 and the V100 powered by the same basic engine as a school bus. So it wouldn't be implausible for KFS to bascially reskin the same basic vehicle.

[RandyT0001]

I've been working on a River Commerce supplement to the MP. Totally un-official of course. I've included a two page sample as a pdf file. I work on it from time to time so I have no set deadline or specified completion date.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

The KFS is described as "not having had a war in a century"; I don't think they would feel the need for tank destroyers (for example) or even, perhaps, tanks.

An armored car should be more than enough to deal with the cap-and-ball musket neighbors; the Air Force can put the fear of death into Truckers and other visiting "trouble".

--
Michael B.

Probably not War in the traditional sense of two armies lining up on opposite sides. However, the KFS does have to contend with incursions by Krell, internal rebellions, and probably raids.

So something like the highly mobile indian wars of the late 19th centrury would be appropriate to think about.

[Gelrir]

Bullets and Bluegrass, pg. 8

"... it has been well over a hundred years since [the army] has had to fight anything even remotely resembling a war. Fighting starving bands of border raiders and river pirates or suppressing the odd slave revolt has given it an exaggerated view of its own prowess."

Five regiments guard the borders, and two (the 'praetorians') act as rapid reserve, capital defense, and insurance against military mutinies in the other regiments. The Secret Police do the special operations sneaky-pete stuff, and monitor the praetorians especially (at a guess).

The KFS is pretty well equipped to fend off border raiders, river pirates and revolting slaves. And the module recognizes the fact that the greatest threat of "internal rebellion" comes from the armed forces. They deliberately restrict the size and capabilities of the Army for that reason.

The 1st-3rd Editions of the rules, and the scenarios, didn't (if I recall) present any continent-spanning view of what Krell's followers are up to. Their listed "region" in the 3rd Edition covers Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, and Missouri -- so there's a short border area in common with the KFS. Maybe they're got things in common: the Morrow Project, at least.

Thus: while it's not mentioned in canon, any KFS - Krell conflict seems very likely. Both sides have spent 150 years building up their fighting forces. The Warriors of Krell aren't described as being supported by a large industrial base; they might covet the KFS's "stuff", and would hence be the most potent "border raiders".

Border raiders with the occasional anti-tank mine, LAW rocket, 20mm autocannon, or TOW missile launcher (all from Morrow sources) could do a lot to blunt the KFS technical advantages.

Plus: the Project's members get a mild philosophical twinge when they realize that the River War (between Krell and the KFS) wouldn't even have happened if the Project had never existed.

--
Michael B

[stormlion1]

Might be interesting for a Morrow Team to get stuck between the Krell and the KFS, or to attempt to start a shooting war between the two in an effort to weaken both sides. Useful if the Team wanted to put a kibosh into the KFS's expansion plans.

[Gelrir]

Start a war ... to rebuild America!

Maybe something a bit more precise would be better for all the Americans involved.

--
Michael B.

[stormlion1]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

Start a war ... to rebuild America!

Maybe something a bit more precise would be better for all the Americans involved.

--
Michael B.

150 years after a nuclear war the various factions aren't really the American ideal anymore. They probably don't even call themselves American anymore. There something different and will need to be broken so something better can be built up to replace it. Starting a war between the Krell and the KFS would get there attention on each other, wasting rescources and even keeping them contained from expansion into more free areas. Hopefully it will be a long war and attrition will bring the victor down low enough the Project or better yet internal problems can bring down the victor from within.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

150 years after a nuclear war the various factions aren't really the American ideal anymore. They probably don't even call themselves American anymore. There something different and will need to be broken so something better can be built up to replace it. Starting a war between the Krell and the KFS would get there attention on each other, wasting rescources and even keeping them contained from expansion into more free areas. Hopefully it will be a long war and attrition will bring the victor down low enough the Project or better yet internal problems can bring down the victor from within.

I see your point, however.

Such a war would be bad for the KFS and strengthen the Krell. The Krell don't have a country or a capital to take over. They are akin to the Mongolian Horde. The Krell sweep over an area and eat it clean, then move on.

There is the potential to lose more of civilization and something that could be built up and turned to more barbarism and loss.

[Gelrir]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

150 years after a nuclear war the various factions aren't really the American ideal anymore. They probably don't even call themselves American anymore. There something different and will need to be broken so something better can be built up to replace it.

That's another big philosophical point for teams to ponder: if there aren't any people calling themselves Americans, should they inhabitants of North American be swept clear with fire and sword so that you can "Rebuild America"? I dunno that "breaking" everyone in North America to fit your goal is very nice.

Yes, maybe instigating a civil war among the Warriors of Krell or the subjects of the KFS would be a good thing -- they deserve better governments, most Morrow folks would agree. Destroying them en masse isn't the same as a beneficial revolution.

--
Michael B.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

Might be interesting for a Morrow Team to get stuck between the Krell and the KFS, or to attempt to start a shooting war between the two in an effort to weaken both sides. Useful if the Team wanted to put a kibosh into the KFS's expansion plans.

There is a chance to start a fight between Krell and Maxwell's Militia in "Operation at Riverton" as well as in "Operation Lucifer".

No Krell in "Operation Damocles" but there is ample reason to draw them in when Damocles begins broadcasting MP wakeup signals really loudly. Then there is ample recruits for the Krell in all the encampments of "Cons" throughout the Upper Peninsula that have every reason to hate the Finns and WANT to join Krell.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

Bullets and Bluegrass, pg. 8

"... it has been well over a hundred years since [the army] has had to fight anything even remotely resembling a war. Fighting starving bands of border raiders and river pirates or suppressing the odd slave revolt has given it an exaggerated view of its own prowess."

Five regiments guard the borders, and two (the 'praetorians') act as rapid reserve, capital defense, and insurance against military mutinies in the other regiments. The Secret Police do the special operations sneaky-pete stuff, and monitor the praetorians especially (at a guess).

The KFS is pretty well equipped to fend off border raiders, river pirates and revolting slaves. And the module recognizes the fact that the greatest threat of "internal rebellion" comes from the armed forces. They deliberately restrict the size and capabilities of the Army for that reason.

The 1st-3rd Editions of the rules, and the scenarios, didn't (if I recall) present any continent-spanning view of what Krell's followers are up to. Their listed "region" in the 3rd Edition covers Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, and Missouri -- so there's a short border area in common with the KFS. Maybe they're got things in common: the Morrow Project, at least.

Thus: while it's not mentioned in canon, any KFS - Krell conflict seems very likely. Both sides have spent 150 years building up their fighting forces. The Warriors of Krell aren't described as being supported by a large industrial base; they might covet the KFS's "stuff", and would hence be the most potent "border raiders".

Border raiders with the occasional anti-tank mine, LAW rocket, 20mm autocannon, or TOW missile launcher (all from Morrow sources) could do a lot to blunt the KFS technical advantages.

Plus: the Project's members get a mild philosophical twinge when they realize that the River War (between Krell and the KFS) wouldn't even have happened if the Project had never existed.

--
Michael B

Krell appears to be like the Mongolian Horde. The move from region to region plundering then return to their home base. Krell are in Washington State, (Operation Final Watch) with a ship and quite a few men. The Krell are on the periphery in Operation Lonestar but, play an insignificant role. Possibly planning a move on the Lonestar Republic if the Brotherhood wins or if the Army at Ft. Hood is weak. Everyone covets the oil and the ability to refine it. Of course, the Krell are also in Idaho (150 years in the past) for Prime Base.

With a shift in the extraction of natural resources in the U.S. since third edition was published; coupled with the loss of major manufacturing in the Great Lakes region, encounter groups locations need a major re-write.