Horsemen of the Apocalypse

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by therantingsavant

Good point - Travel Move for bicycles is 65/15 vs mounted max 40/40 (horse forced marched) or 30/30 (mule force marched).

So if you have access to roads bicycles have an edge in speed and need less food (rider only) and some upkeep but lose out with load (only what the rider can carry vs what mount can carry) and need (minimal) maintenance - as the Twilight world progresses and roads deteriorate the balance will presumably shift...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've got some notes for a bicycle article and motorcycles in the Twilight World need their own treatment but still thinking it over

Before we make rash decisions let do some reading

http://www.combatreform.org/atb.htm
https://www.landroverweb.com/mountai...ooper-shop.htm
https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2...on-two-wheels/
https://www.bikeshophub.com/blog/201...-that-and-more

[Legbreaker]

Only 50 lbs /22 kgs for an infantryman?
In what reality is that? My webbing alone was usually about that heavy!

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Only 50 lbs /22 kgs for an infantryman?
In what reality is that? My webbing alone was usually about that heavy!

Its an average, soldiers should carry no more 32% of their total body weight
or they risk becoming combat ineffective do fatigue

my total carry limit is 64 pounds, which includes, ruck, webbing, helmet, weapon and body armor

[rcaf_777]

More info, remember this is not a new concept

http://ridethisbike.com/2007/02/para...-military.html

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008...s-bicycle.html -Scroll to number 7.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Its an average, soldiers should carry no more 32% of their total body weight or they risk becoming combat ineffective do fatigue

Never going to happen in reality. As mentioned, my webbing alone often weighed about that. Add in pack, etc and I doubt I ever came in at less that 50 kgs, and that at a time when I was only 65kgs myself!

That said, I could carry that load at a fast walk (about 8kph/5mph) pretty much all day long. Make me run more than a few paces though and I was done.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Never going to happen in reality. As mentioned, my webbing alone often weighed about that. Add in pack, etc and I doubt I ever came in at less that 50 kgs, and that at a time when I was only 65kgs myself!

That said, I could carry that load at a fast walk (about 8kph/5mph) pretty much all day long. Make me run more than a few paces though and I was done.

Is there a point here or is this just you bragging about how much you can carry? what's next? are you going to whip it out too?

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Is there a point here or is this just you bragging about how much you can carry? what's next? are you going to whip it out too?

lol

[Targan]

Don't make me whip it out. The weather's been cold lately and I won't be looking my best. I'll bet Tassie is colder at the moment, but maybe Leg's got length to spare

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Is there a point here or is this just you bragging about how much you can carry? what's next? are you going to whip it out too?

Of course there is. Real world example of why the figures are rubbish.
I'm sure any other infantryman could say basically the same thing.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Of course there is. Real world example of why the figures are rubbish.
I'm sure any other infantryman could say basically the same thing.

In my basic, We had to carry 80lbs (or 75% of body weight if less than 80lbs) for 20 miles under time (6 hours) to graduate basic. The grunts had to do it in like 4 hours. When I was with the Mountain, we had to do 30 miles in 6 hours with "Full Ruck" every month. My combat load as a 60 gunner was 118lbs. Then you see something like this making the news and you just shake your head...

https://youtu.be/2F_3MKYiF_c

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Of course there is. Real world example of why the figures are rubbish.
I'm sure any other infantryman could say basically the same thing.

I am was infantry and these figures are not. I carried huge loads of distances and guess what I was in no condition to fight when I reached the end of my route.

remember there are three loads that you see dismounted soldiers carry

Battle Load: Ammo (about 5-6 mags total 200 rounds) and food+water (one meal and two canteens) additional items could include belted ammo, grenades and maybe M-72, helmet and body armor are worn

Extended Load: Battle load with a small pack (with additional food, water, and ammo) and e-tool will also be carried I also carried a ranger blanket

Administrative Load: This is the soldier's rucksack and is not carried into battle due to its size and weight, additional food and water are carried along with sleeping gear and a spare uniform and sundries. Rucksacks are left in an assembly area with the units non-combat troops.

In game terms, PC that are dismounted will become fatigued if they carry too much as will pack animals that why we load limits

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

I've got some notes for a bicycle article and motorcycles in the Twilight World need their own treatment but still thinking it over

Before we make rash decisions let do some reading

http://www.combatreform.org/atb.htm
https://www.landroverweb.com/mountai...ooper-shop.htm
https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2...on-two-wheels/
https://www.bikeshophub.com/blog/201...-that-and-more

I am not saying that the chart is wrong, just that it does not match up with what I have seen and read other places. Some maybe just because they simplified things down, I have read several places that during the American Civil War/Indian Wars Infantry would move greater distances per day than Cavalry. From what I have been told (by reenactors) is that the time taken to feed and care for the horse is what makes the difference, but this is all second hand at best. When I was deployed to Iraq we did movements lots of time of 400+ miles in a day, day in and day out. It looks like they have their figures for only a eight hour work day, not sure what military works that few hours in a day. As for the AAV the image makes it look like it is wheeled, but the only AAV that I know of is the USMC Assault Amphibious Vehicle and it is tracked but still able to do up to 45mph on road so not sure why they limited it to 66% max (understand not having it go max out) when the 5 ton with a max of about 50-55 depending on truck (from first hand experience) they have doing 40 or about 80% of max. And lastly three gallons of water per troop per day? Is that for field hygiene as well as drinking? If not that sounds like a lot to me to be drinking unless you are walking for eight to ten hours. So I guess I am saying I do not have enough background to say it is wrong, but enough to say it looks weird.

[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by CDAT

And lastly three gallons of water per troop per day? Is that for field hygiene as well as drinking? If not that sounds like a lot to me to be drinking unless you are walking for eight to ten hours. So I guess I am saying I do not have enough background to say it is wrong, but enough to say it looks weird.

It's not too far off for arid or jungle environments. The Army's Water Planning Guide calls for 1.65 gallons per soldier per day in temperate climes, 2.2 gallons/soldier/day in the cold, and 3.3 gal/sol/day for jungle or arid environments. That doesn't include water for food preparation, hygiene, or medical treatment.