Getting a Farm Going

[Vespers War]

On the animal side, rabbits are a surprisingly good animal to raise if you can keep them safe, clean, and fed. A herd of cows produces about 20% of their mass as harvestable meat per year. Rabbits or chickens are 500%, and rabbits can be fed more things that aren't edible for humans. An acre of hutches (which sounds ridiculous, I know, but this was being researched for space stations) running efficiently will produce 145 pounds of meat per day. Their manure is also better for fertilizer than cow, horse, or chicken, and it won't burn plants if it's not composted properly.

For preservation, winter squash, potatoes, and onions will last a long time if stored in a cool, dry area. Some other root crops can be left in the ground during winter in cool areas if they're covered with a thick layer of leaves or straw. (This also makes them less visible to raiders or scavengers).

Lots of stuff can be dried, which will keep for months or years. It's (ironically) a bit water-intensive, since most things should be blanched before drying and water's often needed for reconstitution, but it'll preserve food. Even without a purpose-built dehydrator, vegetables can be dried near a stove or with sunlight.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Have the PCs be taught the Ruth Stout method of gardening, it partially mitigates some of the main issues that complete newcomers to farming would have to deal with - it's not so labour intensive, it doesn't need as much water, it doesn't need weeding. But it is not without it's own negatives, it requires nitrogen which can, however, be conveniently supplied by fresh grass.
Much better detail here: -
https://www.bigblogofgardening.com/g...-stout-method/

And as an example of how effective it can be, how does 337 pounds of potatoes sound? Details in the following video: -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlratwBT5OI

The YouTube channel where that video is from is definitely worth browsing, they explore some questions we typically don't think of, such as, can you eat grass, how to make a root cellar out of an old chest freezer and so on.

[Raellus]

What about the Native Americans' "Three Sisters" method of planting beans, squash, and corn all together? It's pretty efficient in terms of labor, and the space-to-yield ratio is favorable.

https://www.nativeseeds.org/blogs/bl...sisters-garden

Here's a quote from the blog:

"Corn provides tall stalks for the beans to climb so that they are not out-competed by sprawling squash vines. Beans provide nitrogen to fertilize the soil while also stabilizing the tall corn during heavy winds. Beans are nitrogen-fixers meaning they host rhizobia on their roots that can take nitrogen, a much needed plant nutrient, from the air and convert it into forms that can be absorbed by plant roots. The large leaves of squash plants shade the ground which helps retain soil moisture and prevent weeds."

https://gardening.cals.cornell.edu/l...three-sisters/

-

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by Raellus

What about the Native Americans' "Three Sisters" method of planting beans, squash, and corn all together? It's pretty efficient in terms of labor, and the space-to-yield ratio is favorable.

https://www.nativeseeds.org/blogs/bl...sisters-garden

Here's a quote from the blog:

"Corn provides tall stalks for the beans to climb so that they are not out-competed by sprawling squash vines. Beans provide nitrogen to fertilize the soil while also stabilizing the tall corn during heavy winds. Beans are nitrogen-fixers meaning they host rhizobia on their roots that can take nitrogen, a much needed plant nutrient, from the air and convert it into forms that can be absorbed by plant roots. The large leaves of squash plants shade the ground which helps retain soil moisture and prevent weeds."

https://gardening.cals.cornell.edu/l...three-sisters/

-

There is a major reservation near the area. I wonder if they practice such growing in that area though? Isn't that practice an Eastern tradition?

[Milano]

I am only a rancher here in California but, as for agriculture I know that it all depends upon water, weather, and luck. If I were to go about it I would:

1st.. Catch Rabbits. For an immediate food source. Easy to breed. Cheap. Food is fairly easy to get for them; weeds, grass, flowers etc.

2nd... get a water source. Spring Boxes are easy to build. A redwood box dug into the ground about 3 or 4 feet. Pipe at the bottom going down hill into a storage tank. Pump water to high elevation and gravity feed from there.

3rd.. Harvesting and ground work equipment would be tough to maintain I think. Far harder to find or make the correct bushings for a disk plow than that of a Chevy pickup.

4th.. Cultivating ground for farming. Cow manure, rabbit offal, etc is a good fertilizer in lieu of the real stuff! Remember that someone with civil engineering could get the fall right for irrigating also.

4th.. Start transplants. Efficiency is found by growing transplants and planting the little started plants into actual farm fields. Think Green House to start them.

5th.. Get Cows and horses. The West Wasn't won on Carrots. (Had to plug my livelihood.) (Also Vesper, depending upon breed of cow, health etc etc. We look for a 60 to 65% yield. It takes me about 7 months of normal natural grass to get a 600 to 700 pound steer and I live in a lackluster enviroment.)

6th.. Pesticides, weeding, and water. Irrigation pipe would be fairly easy to find, especially in suburbs. 3/4" pvc with 1/8" holes drilled into it would work and that is found in every yard, with a shovel.

7th.. Rotation due to season. Strawberries do NOT do well in the rain for example. They get destroyed.

8th.. harvesting storage etc. I would again go with cats. I will also admit that this is where my knowledge starts failing me.

I hope I'm not being too wordy but there is quite alot of roll playing that can go into this and I am interested to see how this plays out with your group. Once it got going it is viable.

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by Milano

I am only a rancher here in California but, as for agriculture I know that it all depends upon water, weather, and luck. If I were to go about it I would:

1st.. Catch Rabbits. For an immediate food source. Easy to breed. Cheap. Food is fairly easy to get for them; weeds, grass, flowers etc.

2nd... get a water source. Spring Boxes are easy to build. A redwood box dug into the ground about 3 or 4 feet. Pipe at the bottom going down hill into a storage tank. Pump water to high elevation and gravity feed from there.

3rd.. Harvesting and ground work equipment would be tough to maintain I think. Far harder to find or make the correct bushings for a disk plow than that of a Chevy pickup.

4th.. Cultivating ground for farming. Cow manure, rabbit offal, etc is a good fertilizer in lieu of the real stuff! Remember that someone with civil engineering could get the fall right for irrigating also.

4th.. Start transplants. Efficiency is found by growing transplants and planting the little started plants into actual farm fields. Think Green House to start them.

5th.. Get Cows and horses. The West Wasn't won on Carrots. (Had to plug my livelihood.) (Also Vesper, depending upon breed of cow, health etc etc. We look for a 60 to 65% yield. It takes me about 7 months of normal natural grass to get a 600 to 700 pound steer and I live in a lackluster enviroment.)

6th.. Pesticides, weeding, and water. Irrigation pipe would be fairly easy to find, especially in suburbs. 3/4" pvc with 1/8" holes drilled into it would work and that is found in every yard, with a shovel.

7th.. Rotation due to season. Strawberries do NOT do well in the rain for example. They get destroyed.

8th.. harvesting storage etc. I would again go with cats. I will also admit that this is where my knowledge starts failing me.

I hope I'm not being too wordy but there is quite alot of roll playing that can go into this and I am interested to see how this plays out with your group. Once it got going it is viable.

Thank you for the recommendations for planning.

As I understand it, the Okanagan Valley is a somewhat dry climate but works well for orchard crops. Do you know anything about ranching in that part of the state?

One thing I have often observed when watching post apocalyptic TV and movies is how often characters avoid areas in rural towns where they might have construction equipment, farming equipment, etc. If the rural folk have been driven out by hordes of refugees or marauders, it seems to me that there might still be heavy equipment to scavenge. One problem will be that they will not be experienced at handling or maintaining it if they do find it. The other will probably be finding a supply of diesel or getting the vehicles converted to alternate fuel.

One good thing the party does have is a well, which they have to maintain and clear contaminants from.

[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by Enfield

Thank you for the recommendations for planning.

As I understand it, the Okanagan Valley is a somewhat dry climate but works well for orchard crops. Do you know anything about ranching in that part of the state?

Portions of a 2011 census of crops and farm animals for Thompson-Okanagan:
Grain 6,500 hectares
Corn for silage 3,344 ha
Hay and pasture 437,000 ha
Alfalfa 42,418 ha
Hay 61,162 ha
Potatoes 170 ha
Fruits, berries and nuts 9,598 ha
Field grown vegetables 887 ha

Hens and chickens 1,808,625
Cattle and calves 171,000
Pigs 1,135
Sheep 13,603
Horses and ponies 11,672
Rabbits 987
Goats 3,534

(all from this PDF)

[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by Raellus

What about the Native Americans' "Three Sisters" method of planting beans, squash, and corn all together? It's pretty efficient in terms of labor, and the space-to-yield ratio is favorable.

https://www.nativeseeds.org/blogs/bl...sisters-garden

Here's a quote from the blog:

"Corn provides tall stalks for the beans to climb so that they are not out-competed by sprawling squash vines. Beans provide nitrogen to fertilize the soil while also stabilizing the tall corn during heavy winds. Beans are nitrogen-fixers meaning they host rhizobia on their roots that can take nitrogen, a much needed plant nutrient, from the air and convert it into forms that can be absorbed by plant roots. The large leaves of squash plants shade the ground which helps retain soil moisture and prevent weeds."

https://gardening.cals.cornell.edu/l...three-sisters/

-

Long-term, milpa agriculture ends up being basically a five field system, because it follows two years of cultivation with eight years left fallow. It's effective, but it ends up requiring a good amount of space over the long haul because of the long fallow period.

Other crops can also be included - pumpkin, avocado, chili - but I haven't read what the proper spacing of planting is for the additional crops.

[swaghauler]

Keep in mind that if you are not gardening (I highly espouse the Ruth Stout method), that there are three important steps to growing food by the acre (or hectare if you prefer). For visualization, remember that an Acre is the size of a FOOTBALL FIELD (around 100m X 50m wide) and a Hectare is 2.47 times the acre in size (10,000 total meters). This is a big space. The three steps to prepping a field are...

1) INITIAL MULCHING AND NUTRIENT ADD: This is normally done in the fall after the harvest. If you have ever seen a cornfield or wheat field that was harvested, you will see stubs of stalks that are bent over and left to rot. This is INTENTIONAL. Those stalks are putting nutrients back into the soil. This is often leavened with grass cuttings and dead leaves. It is best to let these rot on top of the field ALL WINTER. IF you "breaking in" a new field, you should let this debris molder on top of the field for at least a week. The wetter the better as it promotes rot.

2) EARLY SPRING TURNING: Your field has moldered all winter and you have a good debris cover going. Now it's time to turn over those nutrients that will feed your crops long-term. A MouldBoard Plow or Chisel Plow will cut deep ruts and roll that mulch down into the ground where your crops will feed on it all summer long. Once the field is turned, in comes the "boost nutrients" to be laid on the field for up to a week before the initial planting. These nutrients include Nitrogen and the rapid growth food for your crops. In my neck of the woods that would be cow manure turned into a liquid mixture resembling a thick soup. This goes on top and is allowed to soak in. It's what gives you that "Fresh country air" aroma every spring. After a week, this too gets turned over to ensure the soil is now fully capable of being Furrow Plowed.

Please note that there are several alternatives to using modern fertilizers and these methods are STILL being used today. Some common methods to "season" a field including using a "fish slurry" made up of parts of any fish you ate that were left. These parts (including bones) are ground into a "meal" and added to the ashes from a fire to produce a Potassium-rich compound for poor soils. This is then applied as a "slurry" just like manure is. This is the technique the American Indians showed the Colonists at Plymouth to help them fend off starvation.

Another technique is using human feces and urine. To make this safe, they are burned in a container and their ASHES are added to ash from the fire to prevent the spread of disease. This should also be done with Pig, Chicken, and any other Poultry's wastes. Cow, Horse, Rabbit, or Goat waste can be used as-is. These should all be turned into a slurry to stretch the amount of soil that can be fertilized.

Indeed, URINE (and to a lesser extent feces) is a powerful resource. You can use it to fertilize fields, make explosives or smokeless propellants, and even drugs. It would be a VALUABLE RESOURCE that everyone was expected to provide in a place like Krakow. Putting feces into a sealed plastic container known as a "digestor" will allow you to harvest METHANE gas for cooking or welding. Put in some feces, add a small packet of the microbes found in the product known as RID (used to clean septic tanks and found almost everywhere in the US) and just add water. I'm told you can get a liter of Methane from a liter of treated Digester water. This also has NO IMPACT on your ability to use the feces to fertilize fields later.

3) FURROW PLOWING, DISKING, AND PLANTING: Once the field is "seasoned," you can plow the furrows for planting. We used a 3-Furrow Plow but there are a variety of these plows available. IF you are planting a crop that needs looser soil like lettuce, you will also be using a Disc Plow to break up the soil into a finer grain like sand. Heartier plants like Potatoes or Corn do NOT need the soil to be that fine (which is good because topsoil erosion occurs more frequently in disced soil). This is also the stage where you will Contour Plow so wind won't blow away your topsoil. How you plant will depend on WHAT you plant, as different crops need different spacing (hence my Yields Chart). Once the fields are sown though, you can take a breather before the next step (maintenance of the crops) begins.

That's just a quick overview of how to prep a field for farming.

[Milano]

@ Enfield

After a cursory look throughout the web and browsing through Vesper's PDF, I really cannot give you much help. I get around 17 inches of rain between November and April, on an average year. With that I run a cow on about 25 acres. That is without feeding, which is required if the rain is late the following November. I wish I could give you more but that's about all I've got for you. If the PCs do want to go after a cattle ranch, remember that the fences, corrals, water, etc is a large undertaking. A few cows and a bull is more reasonable.

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by Milano

@ Enfield

After a cursory look throughout the web and browsing through Vesper's PDF, I really cannot give you much help. I get around 17 inches of rain between November and April, on an average year. With that I run a cow on about 25 acres. That is without feeding, which is required if the rain is late the following November. I wish I could give you more but that's about all I've got for you. If the PCs do want to go after a cattle ranch, remember that the fences, corrals, water, etc is a large undertaking. A few cows and a bull is more reasonable.

Sorry, is that 25 or 2.5? And is that about 2.5 (or 25) per cow? If there is a lack of rain (I Understand that the Okanagan Valley is pretty dry) will there not be enough grass regrowth?

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

Keep in mind that if you are not gardening (I highly espouse the Ruth Stout method), that there are three important steps to growing food by the acre (or hectare if you prefer). For visualization, remember that an Acre is the size of a FOOTBALL FIELD (around 100m X 50m wide) and a Hectare is 2.47 times the acre in size (10,000 total meters). This is a big space. The three steps to prepping a field are...

1) INITIAL MULCHING AND NUTRIENT ADD: This is normally done in the fall after the harvest. If you have ever seen a cornfield or wheat field that was harvested, you will see stubs of stalks that are bent over and left to rot. This is INTENTIONAL. Those stalks are putting nutrients back into the soil. This is often leavened with grass cuttings and dead leaves. It is best to let these rot on top of the field ALL WINTER. IF you "breaking in" a new field, you should let this debris molder on top of the field for at least a week. The wetter the better as it promotes rot.

2) EARLY SPRING TURNING: Your field has moldered all winter and you have a good debris cover going. Now it's time to turn over those nutrients that will feed your crops long-term. A MouldBoard Plow or Chisel Plow will cut deep ruts and roll that mulch down into the ground where your crops will feed on it all summer long. Once the field is turned, in comes the "boost nutrients" to be laid on the field for up to a week before the initial planting. These nutrients include Nitrogen and the rapid growth food for your crops. In my neck of the woods that would be cow manure turned into a liquid mixture resembling a thick soup. This goes on top and is allowed to soak in. It's what gives you that "Fresh country air" aroma every spring. After a week, this too gets turned over to ensure the soil is now fully capable of being Furrow Plowed.

Please note that there are several alternatives to using modern fertilizers and these methods are STILL being used today. Some common methods to "season" a field including using a "fish slurry" made up of parts of any fish you ate that were left. These parts (including bones) are ground into a "meal" and added to the ashes from a fire to produce a Potassium-rich compound for poor soils. This is then applied as a "slurry" just like manure is. This is the technique the American Indians showed the Colonists at Plymouth to help them fend off starvation.

Another technique is using human feces and urine. To make this safe, they are burned in a container and their ASHES are added to ash from the fire to prevent the spread of disease. This should also be done with Pig, Chicken, and any other Poultry's wastes. Cow, Horse, Rabbit, or Goat waste can be used as-is. These should all be turned into a slurry to stretch the amount of soil that can be fertilized.

Indeed, URINE (and to a lesser extent feces) is a powerful resource. You can use it to fertilize fields, make explosives or smokeless propellants, and even drugs. It would be a VALUABLE RESOURCE that everyone was expected to provide in a place like Krakow. Putting feces into a sealed plastic container known as a "digestor" will allow you to harvest METHANE gas for cooking or welding. Put in some feces, add a small packet of the microbes found in the product known as RID (used to clean septic tanks and found almost everywhere in the US) and just add water. I'm told you can get a liter of Methane from a liter of treated Digester water. This also has NO IMPACT on your ability to use the feces to fertilize fields later.

3) FURROW PLOWING, DISKING, AND PLANTING: Once the field is "seasoned," you can plow the furrows for planting. We used a 3-Furrow Plow but there are a variety of these plows available. IF you are planting a crop that needs looser soil like lettuce, you will also be using a Disc Plow to break up the soil into a finer grain like sand. Heartier plants like Potatoes or Corn do NOT need the soil to be that fine (which is good because topsoil erosion occurs more frequently in disced soil). This is also the stage where you will Contour Plow so wind won't blow away your topsoil. How you plant will depend on WHAT you plant, as different crops need different spacing (hence my Yields Chart). Once the fields are sown though, you can take a breather before the next step (maintenance of the crops) begins.

That's just a quick overview of how to prep a field for farming.

much appreciated. I think being able to explain this will lend a lot of authenticity to the messages from Cascadia as well as emphasizing the need for certain technology to make the efforts easier.

Corn isn't very economical for the space required, and neither are most other grains. techzpod mobdro - edited these were links.


More spammers. Keep an eye out - Kato

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Have the PCs be taught the Ruth Stout method of gardening, it partially mitigates some of the main issues that complete newcomers to farming would have to deal with - it's not so labour intensive, it doesn't need as much water, it doesn't need weeding. But it is not without it's own negatives, it requires nitrogen which can, however, be conveniently supplied by fresh grass.
Much better detail here: -
https://www.bigblogofgardening.com/g...-stout-method/

And as an example of how effective it can be, how does 337 pounds of potatoes sound? Details in the following video: -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlratwBT5OI

The YouTube channel where that video is from is definitely worth browsing, they explore some questions we typically don't think of, such as, can you eat grass, how to make a root cellar out of an old chest freezer and so on.

that's a good idea for the options, and I can use the Youtube video as inspiration for their instructions.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

...it requires nitrogen...

Rotating or companion planting a crop of legumes helps a LOT to fix nitrogen in the soil for use by other plants. https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edi...re-legumes.htm

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by Vespers War

On the animal side, rabbits are a surprisingly good animal to raise if you can keep them safe, clean, and fed. A herd of cows produces about 20% of their mass as harvestable meat per year. Rabbits or chickens are 500%, and rabbits can be fed more things that aren't edible for humans. An acre of hutches (which sounds ridiculous, I know, but this was being researched for space stations) running efficiently will produce 145 pounds of meat per day. Their manure is also better for fertilizer than cow, horse, or chicken, and it won't burn plants if it's not composted properly.

For preservation, winter squash, potatoes, and onions will last a long time if stored in a cool, dry area. Some other root crops can be left in the ground during winter in cool areas if they're covered with a thick layer of leaves or straw. (This also makes them less visible to raiders or scavengers).

Lots of stuff can be dried, which will keep for months or years. It's (ironically) a bit water-intensive, since most things should be blanched before drying and water's often needed for reconstitution, but it'll preserve food. Even without a purpose-built dehydrator, vegetables can be dried near a stove or with sunlight.

Good ideas. The characters might try to explore other farms in the area. I am going with the idea from the module that the area near the Columbia River north of the Coulee Dam is mostly insular. So that could be interesting. I figure that livestock like rabbits or chickens that go feral would be surviving, but they also could trade for them.

Thank you for the ideas on preservation. I will include that in the advice the PCs are given.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Enfield

Good ideas. The characters might try to explore other farms in the area. I am going with the idea from the module that the area near the Columbia River north of the Coulee Dam is mostly insular. So that could be interesting. I figure that livestock like rabbits or chickens that go feral would be surviving, but they also could trade for them.

Thank you for the ideas on preservation. I will include that in the advice the PCs are given.

Good article on vegetables that can be left in the ground for your players for the farm - https://lovelygreens.com/storing-roo...0and%20carrots.

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Good article on vegetables that can be left in the ground for your players for the farm - https://lovelygreens.com/storing-roo...0and%20carrots.

Thanks!