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View Poll Results: Which is Your Favorite T2K-era APC/IFV | |||
M2 Bradley |
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23 | 23.23% |
Warrior |
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5 | 5.05% |
Marder IFV |
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6 | 6.06% |
BMP series (Please specify which version in thread) |
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4 | 4.04% |
M113 series |
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10 | 10.10% |
AMX-10 |
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0 | 0% |
LAV-25 |
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40 | 40.40% |
Bison |
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1 | 1.01% |
BTR series |
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3 | 3.03% |
VAB |
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0 | 0% |
OT-64/SKOT |
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1 | 1.01% |
Other (Please specify in thread) |
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6 | 6.06% |
CV90 |
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0 | 0% |
Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll |
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#61
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The IDF is at it again... Here's the new APC based on the Merkava tank chassis.
https://youtu.be/BfDPulPKY8Y |
#62
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Member of the Bofors fan club! The M1911 of automatic cannon. Proud fan(atic) of the CV90 Series. |
#63
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Well, if Chalkline is going to choose a vehicle purely on the notion of being a special snowflake then I'm going to do it to!
I choose... Ratel 20 IFV Where am I going to get one besides South Africa? Morocco took delivery of around 70 (two variants, the Ratel 20 and the Ratel 90) during 1981-1982. I don't intend going swimming with it so a lack of amphibious ability isn't too much of a concern, I don't intend hunting anything carrying a gun larger than a .50 cal. with it so the APC level of armour shouldn't be too much of a concern. Like Chalkline mentioned about his choice, it's a bus with some minor protection and a bit of fire support. It's tall, tall like the OT-64 SKOT, which makes it great for seeing over the long grass of the veldt but maybe not so useful in Europe and you probably want to avoid street fighting. But... It has a range of approximately 1000km with 530 litres of fuel and can travel at speeds up to 105kph on roads. It also comes fitted with two 50 litre drinking water reservoirs. Comes standard with 3 doors, left & right sides with the third at the rear and also has four large roof hatches plus a smaller hatch at the rear for AA defence. Armament consists of a 20mm autocannon in the turret plus additional 7.62mm MGs on pintle mounts as required. 3 crew and 9 passengers, lots of storage space. Now I just got to get it from Morocco, through Spain and into Central Europe! So yes, I could avoid all the problems if I just decided on the OT-64 instead (plus the -64 is amphibious) but I really, really, really like the Ratel ![]() ![]() Rear access (vehicle is the ZT3 ATGW version and not the Ratel 20 but the basic hull is identical) Side doors |
#64
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The Ratel also just looks cool.
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
#65
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Yes indeed!
When I saw pictures of the Ratel for the first time, it seemed futuristic compared to the military vehicles I was used to seeing in the 1980s. That appeal might have changed in theme over time but it has never diminished, the Ratel just looks too "cool" to forget! Gratuitous Ratel 90 images: 90mm gun ![]() ![]() |
#66
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#67
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The picture below of a Ratel 90, shows them in various staged of being "open". I believe that sometimes they were left open to increase airflow through the vehicle while travelling (however that was passed on to me second-hand so treat it as anecdotal). ![]() EDIT: OH! I just realised you probably meant the protective shields over the driver's windows. I think they have to be closed by someone on the outside of the vehicle but considering that they were another layer of protection for when things got really hairy, the doctrine probably states to close them before going into combat. Last edited by StainlessSteelCynic; 08-29-2020 at 11:11 PM. Reason: Finally understanding what CDAT meant... hopefully |
#68
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#69
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![]() Interestingly, for all the pictures I've seen of Ratels apparently in combat or during combat training, I don't recall ever seeing any of the vehicles with those shields raised. Obviously the driver's windows are some pretty heavy duty armoured glass but they must have been particularly effective because it appears that those protective shields were not often used or... there just aren't many photos available showing the Ratel actually in combat. The few times I've seen pictures of the shields raised is vehicles on static display at shows etc. etc. However because I am intensely curious... this post has taken me many minutes longer than it should because I was searching the net for pictures... I did find this image of a Ratel apparently hit by enemy aircraft and it appears as though the shields were in the raised position. ![]() Image from here: - https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/390124386456757714/ |
#70
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#71
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The shields have a pretty minimalist type of latch to keep them secured in the upright position so it's probably not unexpected that if the shields in that photo where in the upright position when the vehicle rolled over, that they wouldn't necessarily be securely fixed into position - although I suspect that stiff hinges probably help a lot as well. This pic of the Ratel AT version, provides a somewhat better view of the shields and their latches. This image and also the other two showing the ZT3 ATGW equipped Ratel are from the following site: - http://www.sa-transport.co.za/milita...ehicles_3.html |
#72
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2016 saw the decision to add Trophy to Namer as a hard-kill anti-missile defense. In 2017 they showed a prototype with an uncrewed 30mm turret, but AFAIK that hasn't entered production. The new Israeli IFV is Eitan.
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The poster formerly known as The Dark The Vespers War - Ninety years before the Twilight War, there was the Vespers War. |
#73
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Meant to post this earlier but sort of forgot. I voted "Other" because my favorite IFV in T2K is the Toyota Hilux (or other 3/4 ton pickup). In my Red Dawn-ish game pickups were the main player vehicles. They had pintle mounts welded to roll bars for M2s and M60s. Their main defense was GTFO rather than stand up fights.
This repeated in an East Europe game. The players preferred the lower profile of civilian pickups over military trucks or APCs. Two characters with dirt bikes that would scout ahead of the truck convoy to avoid encounters with heavier vehicles. They also camouflaged the trucks to look like locals driving beaters so as to not draw attention when they couldn't avoid an encounter. |
#74
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I voted for the Bradley, I loved that thing as a model for wargaming. I would have voted for the Marder 1, if it had been available, because that's what I rode.
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Liber et infractus |
#75
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Edit: Looking at the poll again it's not Marder 11 it's definitely Marder II so that is a bit of a problem. I believe the Marder II was a WW era tank destroyer. Still, I can't help thinking that the Marder on the poll is meant to be the IFV Last edited by StainlessSteelCynic; 09-27-2020 at 06:30 PM. Reason: updating |
#76
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I think the poll meant the Marder 2, a prototype vehicle of the 80s, which was supposed to deliver an IFV side-kick to the then-new Leopard 2.
I think, I remember it appearing in an older T2k publication. Link to German Wikipedia: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marder_2
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Liber et infractus |
#77
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The poll option refers to the Marder IFV. I typed "Marder II" in error (I was probably reading about WW2 at the time). Sorry for the confusion. I think it's too late to edit the poll, but I'll check, just in case.
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
#78
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Thanks for the clarification!
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Liber et infractus |
#79
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Just realised that the Spartan isn't on the list. Poor thing always gets forgotten about
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#80
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Nor was the FV432
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#81
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Although it hasn't received a single vote, I think a strong case could be made for the OT-64/SKOT in a Poland (or Czechoslovakia) based campaign.
Pros:
Like most wheeled APCs, the big cons are relatively thin armor, and less cross-country mobility than a tracked APC. Being mistaken for a PACT vehicle could be a pro or a con depending on where the vehicle is operating. -
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module Last edited by Raellus; 05-24-2022 at 10:23 AM. |
#82
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Would anyone change their vote to or away from the M2 Bradley, based on its recent combat performance in Ukrainian service?
IIRC, the Bradley received a lot of criticism from the moment it was selected by the US Army. "They" said, "its armor was inadequate, it was too tall, carried too few infantry", etc. Its reputation improved a bit during the Gulf War and Operation Iraqi Freedom. Obviously, it's received a number of upgrades since the 1990s, although some of those garnered additional criticism at the time (e.g. more armor makes it heavier/less mobile). The Ukrainians have praised its crew/passenger survivability, optics, and firepower. If you ever want to change your poll answer, let me know and I will change it for you manually. I just changed mine from LAV-25 to OT-64/SKOT 2. Also, I'm adding the Swedish CV90, as Sweden has become a WWIII combatant in 4e T2k (and a NATO member IRL). Incidentally, the Ukrainians are also fans, IRL. -
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module Last edited by Raellus; 04-27-2024 at 11:53 AM. |
#83
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The problem with the Brad is that while it's great for a war it's not so hot for T2K, Like anything not an MBT it can be popped frontally by an RPG-7V and these are not uncommon in the T2K environment. If this is the case it's a fire support vehicle with a 25mm gun and you may as well have a LAV-25 for that because it's less thirsty and can swim.
Recently I've really gotten into 4x4 APC/IFVs, I think a game where each player had something like a LAV-150 or a BRDM would be cool because you could have a short crew meaning each player had one NPC as a driver. I really should develop this more. |
#84
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
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