Equipment for a Unified Germany

[Abbott Shaull]

As for weapons, the East German units would fight with what they had. Of course, as the fighting continued and MRD and TDs of the NVA were moved from the line for refit and much needed re-organization, this is why by 2000 they are called Panzer and Panzergrendier units. This could be done by several ways, pulling an entire Division from the line which I can see happening to a couple of them. While others would find themselves sending a Regiment here and Regiment there while they receive fresh Brigades that themselves had been refitted for duty since I am sure West German Divisions needed to be pulled from the line too. In general the MRR and TR would be converted to PzG Brigades and Pz Brigades with little effort to consolidate them, as equipment losses mount up.

New troops entering their ranks would be issue standard West German Equipment.

The overall changing of equipment wouldn't be much of a problem. The former NVA units would use up their supplies, and all capture supplies would be turned over to them for their use. This would work fairly well since the NVA units would be spread along the front. By late 1998 and early 1999 is when the snags of this would show as units that capture equipment/arms would want to keep to use for it own purposes.

[Raellus]

The BMP1A1 "Ost" version of the BMP-1:

I posted an image of a Unified Germany BMP-1 (I can't figure out to post it here) on the FB group and a member responded,

"The BMP-1A1 Ost is even more of an abomination than the standard BMP. The Bundeswehr modified them to be road regulation compliant, took the ATGM off, limited the speed to 50/40 kph (roadd/offroad), ruled the speed in training down to 20 kph to minimize wear and tear, deleted the gas tanks in the back doors and put steps on the side to climb the beast easily and without chances of self-inflicted injuries."

I wonder if the Bundeswehr would have the time or resources to make those mods post v1 reunification.

Apparently, IRL, unified Germany eventually sold most of its former-DDR BMP-1s to Sweden, which refurbished them before selling them on to the Czech Republic. Someone (Paul M?) mentioned in another thread that DDR BMP-1s required asbestos abatement before acceptance for post-Cold War service. Yikes! In a v1 timeline, they all probably stay put in Germany, and are used throughout the Twilight War in Unified Germany service.

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[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I wonder if the Bundeswehr would have the time or resources to make those mods post v1 reunification.

Almost certainly not. The East German military went straight from sitting out the West German invasion to the late November 1996 coup, and from there into combat against the Warsaw Pact forces already fighting the Bundeswehr in East Germany. Taking motor rifle regiments offline to make those mods would almost literally have been a case of changing the tire while the truck was in motion...

- C.

[shrike6]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

Almost certainly not. The East German military went straight from sitting out the West German invasion to the late November 1996 coup, and from there into combat against the Warsaw Pact forces already fighting the Bundeswehr in East Germany. Taking motor rifle regiments offline to make those mods would almost literally have been a case of changing the tire while the truck was in motion...

- C.

Tegyrius is right in my opinion. I don't see how the Ost is possible any sort of quantity in the v1 timeline. Doing it would take time that you just dont have when the war is on your doorstep. “You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.” - Donald Rumsfeld

[Raellus]

Our very own Chalkline created this mockup of a former East German 122mm howitzer mated to a West German Jaguar 2 Raketenjagdpanzer.

To me, this marriage makes perfect sense. HOT and TOW missiles are going to be used up relatively quickly (plus, there are better platforms to employ them from). On the other hand, stockpiles of DDR 122mm rounds would probably last considerably longer, and, aside from continued domestic production in the former East Germany, additional stockpiles could be captured from Pact forces.

This is not a system that would be available on Day 1 to the reunified German military, but rather could appear on the battlefield some time during the first year or two of its participation in the Twilight War.

[ChalkLine]

To have a Bundeswehr invade Poland with the USA I'm going to assume a hardline government. This would be unfortunate because the hardliners still claimed the pre-1939 borders of Germany, I wonder what they'd be doing in occupied Poland and how the Poles would react. Maybe this is why so many Polish units kept fighting for the WTO.

[ToughOmbres]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Perhaps this has been dealt with before on the old forum, but I thought I'd bring it up anyway. Please note that this assumes the v1.0 timeline.

What kinds of uniforms and equipment would former DDR units assimilated into the Bundeswehr use? I'm wondering about uniforms and small arms in particular (big ticket items like Soviet model AFVs and arty would no doubt continue on in use and not be replaced). Would they continue to use their old issue DDR gear? Would they be issued new or cast-off West German gear?

By the mid to late 90's, the RL [unified] German Army was well on its way to replacing its old, 1957 pattern green combat fatigues and old, M1-style steel pot helmets with the current Flektarn [sic] camo pattern fatigues and balistic helmets. Also, the 7.62mm G3 was on its way out, to be replaced with the newer 5.56mm G36. I'm going to assume that this transition would have taken place even had the Cold War continued and reunification not taken place.

On the other side of The Wall, the DDR army, as of around '87, was still using a rather antiquated "Raindrop" pattern camo uni and odd-shaped steel pot helmet. They were equiped with DDR manufactured AKMs, RPKs, and PKMs.

Would the newly absorbed T2K DDR troops receive phased-out 1957 pattern green combat unis from reserve stocks? Would they transition to NATO weapons or keep their perfectly serviceable AKs?

What do ya'll make of the G11? I figure it still wouldn't have been adopted had the Cold War continued, for the same reasons it was passed over in the real time-line. It was still a pretty neat design. Caseless ammo, a 100-round mag, and no muzzle-rise on full auto until the last round left the barrel!

For practical reasons in my view the Eastern half of the Bundeswehr/NVA would continue using East Bloc equipment until supplies and spare parts were exhausted. Armbands for individuals with recognition stripes plus turret/vehicle tops would be marked to minimize fratricide. Put another way, why not keep giving them what they're familiar with to use?

During the NATO offensives into Poland some equipment would be captured from Polish and Soviet forces to pass along to the Eastern half of the Bundeswehr/former NVA. Remember that the DDR had copious amounts of spares and redundancies stockpiled that could continue to be used even given combat attrition.

The militia/Combat Groups of the working class would in my mind use their sanitized (with Nazi markings removed) K98K's, MP44's and Lugers to protect factories, bridges and communications.

Once Operation Omega was complete perhaps it would be feasible to pass along all of the Eastern Bloc equipment to German militia and completely equip the Bundeswehr with German/US equipment-with East Bloc equipment going into storage caches and small amounts going to pro-Western Polish groups.

If you began an immediate transition to Western equipment for the former NVA what would you give them for tanks besides M48A5's? Not inconsequential but not ideal for engaging even semi-modern Soviet bloc tracks.

The G11-in reality parsimony and budget constraints were the main cause of the G11's demise. I'm told there were other problems (that could have been overcome in time) related to moisture in the caseless format. Have no idea if that is accurate-just what I was told. Just my .02.